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Tiananmen Square Massacres' 27th Anniversary. China Detains Activists

What you brought on have been SUCCESSFULLY challenged by those who were there. They had their own pictures of what happened and you can find them on your own.

The word 'massacre' is emotionally charged in the sense that the victims are usually either unable to defend themselves or if/when they can defend themselves, their defenses were easily overran by superior force. Dead soldiers ? How did they became dead ? Maybe by attacking the civilians and the civilians defended themselves ?

If the evidences for the Tiananmen Square Massacre are so weak, then why is the Chinese government STILL working hard to suppress any bit of information about it ? Let the public see the dispute between the 'Yea' and the 'Nay'. Why is that so hard to understand ?

Recently, I took a Chinese Intel engineer to my local Barnes and Noble bookstore and he saw the book "The People's Republic of Amnesia" by Louisa Lim. He asked me to explain what happened that day. He knows nothing about it. I spent five minutes in my own words and he spent the next HOUR reading that book while I drink my coffee. He could not buy the book and take it back to China with him because he know the book would be confiscated and he probably detained on some made up charges. I told him if ever visit the US again, he can spend a couple days at my house with the book if he want.

You and the rest of your Chinese friends on PDF are probably too young to remember that day. You deny it not because you done any serious research on the event, but because this is an oblique jab at US, not even at the Chinese activists on that day. You guys are more concerned about US than about China when it comes to the Tiananmen Square event.
Gosh. What a lot of mumbo jumbo.
Facts are facts. Backed up by testimony of BBC reporters that had apologize. Backed up by other European reporters that were at the square. Backed up by testimony of student leaders that were In the square and even by your own US embassy declassified papers. There are also just as many photos of burned soldiers and dead soldiers hanging from poles. The fact that you do not know about roads being blocked and that the protesters were armed is telling. You are just either ignorant or just refuse to believe the truth because it does not meet your point of view. Simple as that.
 
Gosh. What a lot of mumbo jumbo.
Facts are facts. Backed up by testimony of BBC reporters that had apologize. Backed up by other European reporters that were at the square. Backed up by testimony of student leaders that were In the square and even by your own US embassy declassified papers. There are also just as many photos of burned soldiers and dead soldiers hanging from poles. The fact that you do not know about roads being blocked and that the protesters were armed is telling. You are just either ignorant or just refuse to believe the truth because it does not meet your point of view. Simple as that.
So here are the facts...

There are far more eyewitnesses and books written that the Tiananmen Square Massacre happened than there are those who deny it. Again, explain why is it that the Chinese government continues to suppress information about the event if the evidences for it are so weak ? Never mind, it was a rhetorical question anyway.
 
So here are the facts...

There are far more eyewitnesses and books written that the Tiananmen Square Massacre happened than there are those who deny it. Again, explain why is it that the Chinese government continues to suppress information about the event if the evidences for it are so weak ? Never mind, it was a rhetorical question anyway.

For Good reason. You have poor memory.
2008 run up to Beijing olympic. Tell me one Western mainstream media that was telling the truth about the Tibetan riots.

TAM massacre is just another example of 'responsible' Western press.

Why waste so much time on those people who don't want to admit the truth? I meet many people who believe that kind of BS and I even presented many evidences to prove that those rioters were not peaceful, but they will never admit that because this is a good way to antagonize the Chinese government. Not to mention, most of those people know very little about the June 4 incident and many of the information they got were from Media only.
It's also an opportunity for me to bash him. Don't you think?
 
https://www.quora.com/What-did-it-feel-like-to-be-in-Beijing-during-the-Tiananmen-Square-massacre

Written By Feifei Wang

I was in elementary school when Tiananmen Square Massacre happened. At the time I was living with my grandma some 3 miles from Tiananmen Square, my parents however was living in an apartment on Chang Chun ave, about 2 miles from Tiananmen Square.

I vaguely remember my grandma was very nervous since late May, but I was way too young to understand what's going on. I remember she went pick me up at school instead of letting me walk home myself (as I usually did). I saw green military trucks drove by with soldiers inside. There're people giving speeches on street corners but my grandma never allow me to stick around and listen. I guess I wouldn't understand what they're talking about anyways.

On the day of June 4th, we received notice that schools were closed, and we're to stay home until further notice. To be honest, I was happy. I mean NO SCHOOL! But my grandma wouldn't allow me to go out and play. I stayed home the whole day. My grandma was watching TV all the time, which was quite odd to me, since she usually only watched evening news.

School went back to normal 2 days after June 4th. I remember seeing heavy black smokes raising from not far away from my home. Later I saw from the news that one military truck was attacked by mobs and burned down.

It wasn't until much later when I was in high school my parents told me their experience. My father and step mom actually walked to Tiananmen square when the students gathered there. They're not activists, although they sympathies with their cause, most people did at the time. The students were making simple demands, nothing outrages: want to meet with government officials, want to stop corruption. The official stories denied firing at the students, but my parents later told me, they heard gun shot, and saw horrified people running away from the square. They saw people carrying gunshot victim to hospital. And they saw bullet hole on the wall outside their apartment building.

I never believed Tanks were actually in Beijing, and I never believed soldiers could open fire to unarmed students, not when I was in China. The news coverage talked about how mobs attacked soldiers and how the disciplined soldiers never return fire. I saw mutilated corpses of soldiers but never the students. It wasn't until I came to the US, saw the famous Tank man picture, I realized I was being lied to and was brainwashed all these years! It is a horrifying epiphany. You heard about brainwash all the time, thinking it's some hellish experience, like those in the book 1984. But in reality, most brainwash happens gradually, repeat lies a thousand times, it does become the truth.

However, Tiananmen square massacre isn't simply "horrible government crashing down innocent students", far from it. There're multiple layer of power struggle at play, while most westerners considered Tiananmen Square massacre to be a beacon of Chinese struggle for democracy and civil rights, the incident actually slowed down Chinese political and economical reformation process. The students, especially during the later stages of the movement, were far from innocent. The leaders never had a clear goal, and start infighting almost immediately after they occupied the square. I often wonder what would happen to China if we don't have the Tiananmen Square massacre, we would have very different history indeed.

@Rain Man @Daniel808 @boomslang @21 Dec 2012

Another comment by Kenneth Ho:
I travel to China pretty often for business and would always raise the issue of the Tiananmen Square massacre with the locals (Taxi drivers, managers, businessmen). From what I gather, 100% of these local Chinese that I spoke to all agreed that Tiananmen Square massacre was a necessary evil. They all felt that if the CCP hadn't flexed its strength that day, China would have fallen into anarchy.

One of them whom I spoke to is a general manager of a US company (who himself had also been educated in the US) based in Shanghai. He was one of the students present at the Tiananmen massacre. Looking back, he tells me that it was stupid of him to take part in the demonstrations. The leaders (like what Feifei Wang said) didn't have a clear goal. At the demonstrations, they were collecting donations, and nobody knows where the money went. He also felt that, though unfortunate, the response from the government was justified, for the greater good of China.
 
Don't miss this part..!! :)

It wasn't until much later when I was in high school my parents told me their experience. My father and step mom actually walked to Tiananmen square when the students gathered there. They're not activists, although they sympathies with their cause, most people did at the time. The students were making simple demands, nothing outrages: want to meet with government officials, want to stop corruption. The official stories denied firing at the students, but my parents later told me, they heard gun shot, and saw horrified people running away from the square. They saw people carrying gunshot victim to hospital. And they saw bullet hole on the wall outside their apartment building.

I never believed Tanks were actually in Beijing, and I never believed soldiers could open fire to unarmed students, not when I was in China. The news coverage talked about how mobs attacked soldiers and how the disciplined soldiers never return fire. I saw mutilated corpses of soldiers but never the students. It wasn't until I came to the US, saw the famous Tank man picture, I realized I was being lied to and was brainwashed all these years! It is a horrifying epiphany. You heard about brainwash all the time, thinking it's some hellish experience, like those in the book 1984. But in reality, most brainwash happens gradually, repeat lies a thousand times, it does become the truth.
 
The official stories denied firing athe students, but my parents later told me, they heard gun shot

If I remember correctly, they did open fire one or two shot to the sky, but not to the people. I used to be like some of the members here believe that kind of BS since HK is the only place that holds the June 4 memorial every year. However, until I saw the confession of Liu xiabo, I know i'm getting close to the truth. All the lies that the HK media have been told are overwhelming and have its effects on lots of people till today, many people in HK still deny the truth and they cant accept that all the things they believe in those years are simply a propaganda, which is very sad because what facts are facts.

I never believed soldiers could open fire to unarmed students, not when I was in China. The news coverage talked about how mobs attacked soldiers and how the disciplined soldiers never return fire
Is that truth that Chinese government reported soldiers never return fire? because I did watch a video from CCP after June 4 incident reported the number of casualties and i never heard something about CCP deny the return fire? Can Chinese member verify that?
 

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