Tiananmen Square Anniversary Marked by Thousands

[Tractor]

Are you freaking out of your mind? damn i been witnessing big change in your opinions, correct me if i was wrong, extreme bias and hate against the west and will tolerate any sh!t from non western people even they are on a mission to degrade China, sorry if i have offended you, as you know i never like to argue with my brothers but i think you have cross the line.
Stop degrading our great leader "Deng xiaoping", he had done way more good than bad for China and he deserved great respect period.
PS, yeah right, mao was better than Deng? you must be kidding me.

Mao is better than Deng with absolutely good respection from chinese people,no question no kidding.

 

[Tractor]

Gen. Ayub Khan, Gen. Pinochet & Hosni mubarak were all credited with bring economic development to Pakistan, Chile & Egypt, but that didn't stop the people from rising against these dictators. There is a saying in our place that even if you are imprisoned in a golden cage, you are still inside a prison. You can buy TV and DVD from market, but freedom is something you have to fight for.

It is really difficult for chinese to realize what is freedom not in meaning but in practise,right?

 

[Kevrai]

TANK MAN!!! bravest of men

too bad we will never know who he really was

 

[yangtomous]

Deng more respect than Mao in many many times

 

[below_freezing]

Are you freaking out of your mind? damn i been witnessing big change in your opinions, correct me if i was wrong, extreme bias and hate against the west and will tolerate any sh!t from non western people even they are on a mission to degrade China, sorry if i have offended you, as you know i never like to argue with my brothers but i think you have cross the line.
Stop degrading our great leader "Deng xiaoping", he had done way more good than bad for China and he deserved great respect period.
PS, yeah right, mao was better than Deng? you must be kidding me.

No, I've always been extremely anti-West. Look, Chinese don't have to have uniform opinion. There are sellout trash traitors like Liu Xiaobo, there are hardcore Maoist like Bo Xilai, anyone has their own opinion and they're not more right or wrong for it except when it is self racist and threatens national security.

I'll just talk rationally about Deng vs. Mao.

In 1949, China had nothing and had to ironically import gunpowder. In 1959 we could already produce tanks, aircraft, and gunpowder. In 1969, we already had H-bombs, nuclear submarines and satellites.

Deng came to power in 1979 (economic reform was began not by him but by Hua Guofeng in 1976). In 1979, Shanghai and Taiwan with equal population had equal GDP per capita: 1000 USD. In 1989 Shanghai had 1100 USD and Taiwan had 6000. Why?

China's economic growth took off in 1992. The first 10 years of "growth" was due to more assets being accounted for, not actual growth. Add that to huge devaluation from 3:1 RMB:USD to 8:1 RMB:USD it essentially made our economy not grow at all. However, even on an RMB growth chart, our economic growth was sh!t during 80's.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Prc1952-2005gdp.gif

As you can see from this chart, growth took off only in 1992. In addition, why did Deng kill the Y-10 project and decide to buy from McDonnel Douglas, killing our civil aviation industry? Why did Deng use the phrase "造不如买，买不如租＂？Most of all, people are smart. Why did no one riot against Mao but people riot against Deng, and never riot again after? Yes, there was CIA involvement, but CIA has to take advantage of existing problems. Now the CIA has a much harder time inciting riots in China.

Mao has never lost a war whether in Korea or India or Vietnam. There is no dispute about his victories. We killed/made missing after 20 years (basically killed) 1 million white and Korean trash in the Korean war and lost only 180,000 (our records) to 400,000 (US records). Even in worst case scenario we had a 2:1 kill ratio, in a war where we were 50 years behind the times and starting from disadvantaged geography.

However, in 1979, some people say China lost. Why? Because we didn't massacre the Vietnamese the way we massacred the Koreans, because we retreated instead of held the line like we did in Korea. Even this victory in Vietnam was a "worse" victory than the one in Korea. Not all victories are equal.

Deng did little for China but was a great showman for the West.

 

[anonymous123]

If someone like below freezing take control of China...........god help us all. Welcome to North Korea 2.0 the happiest place on the planet......
Other Asian country would only be too happy to take away your business .............do you know how Singapore start to prosper??? Yup, thanks to Mao

 

[below_freezing]

If someone like below freezing take control of China...........god help us all. Welcome to North Korea 2.0 the happiest place on the planet......
Other Asian country would only be too happy to take away your business .............do you know how Singapore start to prosper??? Yup, thanks to Mao

You kidding me. I talk with statistics and proven history, and you refute with some bullsh!t personal attack.

Know why Deng got business? Same way Thailand gets business but a bit more dignified.

And how did Deng "get business" when the reforms were started by Hua Guofeng? How good was that "business" when the economy didn't even grow until 1992?

 

[anonymous123]

You kidding me. I talk with statistics and proven history, and you refute with some bullsh!t personal attack.

Know why Deng got business? Same way Thailand gets business but a bit more dignified.

And how did Deng "get business" when the reforms were started by Hua Guofeng? How good was that "business" when the economy didn't even grow until 1992?

Yea....Mao the HERO!!!! Millions suddenly died.........more than WW2
Great victory at Korea where the kill ratio is not even funny.......congrats
Famous for his weird personal hygiene........never brush teeth????
Pure communist is a disease, I would rather side with the Taiwanese than watch millions dies like rats

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

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[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Yea....Mao the HERO!!!! Millions suddenly died.........more than WW2
Great victory at Korea where the kill ratio is not even funny.......congrats
Famous for his weird personal hygiene........never brush teeth????
Pure communist is a disease, I would rather side with the Taiwanese than watch millions dies like rats

Lets give Mao credit for Korean war, the West needed a wake call,to wake from their colonial delusions.

 

[anonymous123]

Lets give Mao credit for Korean war, the West needed a wake call,to wake from their colonial delusions.

The thing is........It's the north who attacked 1st. If the west fought like WW2 where survival is at stake.......no1 can stop them.

 

[below_freezing]

Yea....Mao the HERO!!!! Millions suddenly died.........more than WW2
Great victory at Korea where the kill ratio is not even funny.......congrats
Famous for his weird personal hygiene........never brush teeth????
Pure communist is a disease, I would rather side with the Taiwanese than watch millions dies like rats

Proof of the first statement? Its been shown false by professional historians at Harvard.

http://monthlyreview.org/commentary/did-mao-really-kill-millions-in-the-great-leap-forward

"# R. MacFarquhar, T. Cheek and E. Wu (eds) The Secret Speeches of Chairman Mao. From the Hundred Flowers to the Great Leap Forward. The Council on East Asian Studies/Harvard University Press, 1989."

In Korea our kill ratio was 2:1 for UN forces. I've posted the links to the US's own war museum where they have UN casualties (400,000 killed, 600,000 missing) carved in a piece of rock for all generations to see. China only has 180,000 killed by our records and 400,000 by US records. We fought alone vs. the UN because North Korea didn't kill a single white man.

Yeah keep siding with the Taiwanese, no one cares. They lost the war for a reason: Chiang killed far more than Mao did, and this is actually backed up by demographic projections. The death rate during the ROC era was 3 times that of the PRC era in even 1950's and even during Great Leap Forward, death rates were only "equal" to that of the ROC era. Great Leap Forward was just 3 years, but ROC was 37, you can imagine how many starved to death under the Chiang regime.

 

[Obambam]

No, Deng was a brutal and corrupt dictator. Jiang Zemin was corrupt but he was the one primarily responsible for the economic miracle and wasn't a dictator.

Deng gets the credit in the West precisely because the West loves brutal dictators that follow their orders (like Deng).

We have to give credit for Deng for bringing back Hong Kong and Macao though.

 

[below_freezing]

We have to give credit for Deng for bringing back Hong Kong and Macao though.

Sorry. Forgot about that. Yes, he does have merit for that, and Mao was spineless for not occupying HK during the 1967 riots.

 

[anonymous123]

Proof of the first statement? Its been shown false by professional historians at Harvard.

Did Mao Really Kill Millions in the Great Leap Forward? :: Monthly Review

"# R. MacFarquhar, T. Cheek and E. Wu (eds) The Secret Speeches of Chairman Mao. From the Hundred Flowers to the Great Leap Forward. The Council on East Asian Studies/Harvard University Press, 1989."

In Korea our kill ratio was 2:1 for UN forces. I've posted the links to the US's own war museum where they have UN casualties (400,000 killed, 600,000 missing) carved in a piece of rock for all generations to see. China only has 180,000 killed by our records and 400,000 by US records. We fought alone vs. the UN because North Korea didn't kill a single white man.

Yeah keep siding with the Taiwanese, no one cares. They lost the war for a reason: Chiang killed far more than Mao did, and this is actually backed up by demographic projections. The death rate during the ROC era was 3 times that of the PRC era in even 1950's and even during Great Leap Forward, death rates were only "equal" to that of the ROC era. Great Leap Forward was just 3 years, but ROC was 37, you can imagine how many starved to death under the Chiang regime.

you can try and read Sidney Rittenberg Memoir "The Man Who Stayed Behind" , when a leader is being worshiped like a god.......something has gone really wrong