Three Huge Ways Pakistan Still Isn’t Cooperating

[Halaku Khan]

Our disobedience to America will only increase, until and unless your interests align with ours. You're repackaging half truths about Proxies and burrowing your face under the ground about the truth of supporting tyranny of India within Kashmir. You have bent over backwards to support India with weapons and nuclear trade. Pakistani national interests view those actions as already implementing the destruction of Pakistan.

First of all you need to stop making the poor Afghans suffer for your imagined grievances on Kashmir.

Secondly, the US does not provide any charity to India and has no leverage on Kashmir. It is Pakistan that is taking charity from the US.

Even Pakistan accepts that Kashmir is a bilateral issue with India so stop trying to drag the US and the unfortunate Afghans into it.

If you care about tyranny then make a beginning by allowing the JKLF to contest elections in Pakistan occupied Kashmir.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

self delete ..!

 

[kallol]

You're repackaging half truths about Proxies and burrowing your face under the ground about the truth of supporting tyranny of India within Kashmir. You have bent over backwards to support India with weapons and nuclear trade. Pakistani national interests view those actions as already implementing the destruction of Pakistan.

Big words Aquil. Before commenting about other countries which you know only through some televangalists, some specific media and groups like JuD, etc, please look around in your country - in Balochistan (if your memory is short then google), SWAT - remember the flogging, FATA and NWFP (where now only the governance is being planned) and so called Azad Kashmir (read the recent post in Dawn about it). Even Sind - you know what happens.

I think being in military rule for most part of Pakistan's exisitence, have made you compalcent and disoriented about what is called governance or democracy.

You hear the smallest matters in Kashmir because the media in India is competitively free unlike Pakistan and China. You hear the despodancy of the so called Hurriat because the people have come out in hordes to vote. You hear the dismissal or suspension of police / army personal because we value human rights. You hear the slightest murmurs of protests because we value secularism.

Your crocodile tears regarding Kashmir would be better served if youdirect your anger towards your government so that they can govern your people better.

Sometimes you forget that India has almost equal population of muslim as Pakistan. And if you look at their per capita income, it will probably be more than yours (if you leave out the doles you get). Though we never say that we are comfortable and we admit there are problems. These are bound to be in such a culturally diversed nation which is also a democracy. We are also trying to solve them diplomatically and economically. Yes sometimes it requires force which is true for any country (even for saintly Pakistan) and it is not only for Kashmir but all across India wherever it is needed.

Please check the ground situation of Kashmir from any neutral observers and then comment.

No hard feelings but only anguish at the use of words.

&

 

[Valiant_Soul]

Big words Aquil. Before commenting about other countries which you know only through some televangalists, some specific media and groups like JuD, etc, please look around in your country - in Balochistan (if your memory is short then google), SWAT - remember the flogging, FATA and NWFP (where now only the governance is being planned) and so called Azad Kashmir (read the recent post in Dawn about it). Even Sind - you know what happens.

I think being in military rule for most part of Pakistan's exisitence, have made you compalcent and disoriented about what is called governance or democracy.

You hear the smallest matters in Kashmir because the media in India is competitively free unlike Pakistan and China. You hear the despodancy of the so called Hurriat because the people have come out in hordes to vote. You hear the dismissal or suspension of police / army personal because we value human rights. You hear the slightest murmurs of protests because we value secularism.

Your crocodile tears regarding Kashmir would be better served if youdirect your anger towards your government so that they can govern your people better.

Sometimes you forget that India has almost equal population of muslim as Pakistan. And if you look at their per capita income, it will probably be more than yours (if you leave out the doles you get). Though we never say that we are comfortable and we admit there are problems. These are bound to be in such a culturally diversed nation which is also a democracy. We are also trying to solve them diplomatically and economically. Yes sometimes it requires force which is true for any country (even for saintly Pakistan) and it is not only for Kashmir but all across India wherever it is needed.

Please check the ground situation of Kashmir from any neutral observers and then comment.

No hard feelings but only anguish at the use of words.

&

I think Pakistani media is also coming of age. For example, take the case of Dawn reporting the actual state of Azad Kashmir.

 

[Awesome]

Big words Aquil. Before commenting about other countries which you know only through some televangalists, some specific media and groups like JuD, etc, please look around in your country - in Balochistan (if your memory is short then google), SWAT - remember the flogging, FATA and NWFP (where now only the governance is being planned) and so called Azad Kashmir (read the recent post in Dawn about it). Even Sind - you know what happens.

I think being in military rule for most part of Pakistan's exisitence, have made you compalcent and disoriented about what is called governance or democracy.

You hear the smallest matters in Kashmir because the media in India is competitively free unlike Pakistan and China. You hear the despodancy of the so called Hurriat because the people have come out in hordes to vote. You hear the dismissal or suspension of police / army personal because we value human rights. You hear the slightest murmurs of protests because we value secularism.

Your crocodile tears regarding Kashmir would be better served if youdirect your anger towards your government so that they can govern your people better.

Sometimes you forget that India has almost equal population of muslim as Pakistan. And if you look at their per capita income, it will probably be more than yours (if you leave out the doles you get). Though we never say that we are comfortable and we admit there are problems. These are bound to be in such a culturally diversed nation which is also a democracy. We are also trying to solve them diplomatically and economically. Yes sometimes it requires force which is true for any country (even for saintly Pakistan) and it is not only for Kashmir but all across India wherever it is needed.

Please check the ground situation of Kashmir from any neutral observers and then comment.

No hard feelings but only anguish at the use of words.

&

Before lecturing me about big words and lack of knowledge about India, learn to spell Swat. It's not SWAT as in Special Weapons And Tactics.

Your nonfactual statements are more a testament of your own ignorance about Pakistan. Moreover just like a typical Indian zealot you've swung into action to repeat your bogus mantras about the fantasy land you imagine India to be. I'm not buying.

If you can counter my views about Kashmir, simply conduct a plebiscite and shut me up once and for all how the hordes of Kashmiris support you.

 

[Awesome]

First of all you need to stop making the poor Afghans suffer for your imagined grievances on Kashmir.

Secondly, the US does not provide any charity to India and has no leverage on Kashmir. It is Pakistan that is taking charity from the US.

Even Pakistan accepts that Kashmir is a bilateral issue with India so stop trying to drag the US and the unfortunate Afghans into it.

If you care about tyranny then make a beginning by allowing the JKLF to contest elections in Pakistan occupied Kashmir.

You're the only one dragging in the poor Afghanis by your continued support to Afghani terror groups. We're still in full support of eliminating the Haqqanis, the Afghan Taliban and all other groups that may form any Jaish and Lashkars from Pakistani soil.

The battle for Afghanistan as it stands today is simply to keep the Indians out.

But we're not ready to forgo our efforts for Kashmir, where in the absence of a diplomatic resolution other methods would be tried. This is a promise we've made to the Kashmiris.

 

[Halaku Khan]

You're the only one dragging in the poor Afghanis by your continued support to Afghani terror groups.

This is a deliberate falsehood to justify your attempts to enslave the Afghans.

But we're not ready to forgo our efforts for Kashmir, where in the absence of a diplomatic resolution other methods would be tried. This is a promise we've made to the Kashmiris.

The only promise that the Kashmiris have from Pakistan is that they will be given the Bengali treatment if they try to resist Pakistani terrorism. In fact, former ISI chief Javed Ashraf Qazi had admitted in the Pakistan parliament that Pakistani terrorist groups had slaughtered thousands of Kashmiris.

 

[ramu]

If you can counter my views about Kashmir, simply conduct a plebiscite and shut me up once and for all how the hordes of Kashmiris support you.

Plebiscite is all you want .. OK let us consider the options.
First of all, we all agree that the state of Kashmir was annexed in favour of India. This is disputed by Pakistan and the resolution you think will be to have the plebiscite. Right ?

Has the demographies changed in this region (both in India and Pakistan) over the past 60 years ? Yes. Population from other areas have settled in the Pakistan side of Kashmir. Is this a fair comment ?

What about the demographies of the state of J&K on Indian side ? That has changed drastically because of large scale outlflux of pandits forced out from the valley. Why ? Freedom fighters / Militants sponsored from across the border with the support of sections of local population. The PA gives regular cover for insurgents crossing the LoC is well documented given the latest cameras installed on the Indian side of LoC.

Now is the Plebiscite fair given that a major change in the demographies of Kashmir and the use of non peaceful methods? Will India ever agree for such a system which is forced on it after a systematic change in demographies in favour of Pakistan. No. Will the sentiment of Pakistan find support in UN of today. No.

India has conducted free and fair elections in the J&K state and a large population have turned up to vote and this is well documented by foreign media. The elections is a testimony of J&K coming to the democratic ways of governance and large sections shunning violence in favour of peace.

Aquil, you are a senior member and whenever you are cornered on this topic your response is always Plebiscite. I have given you a reasonable argument that will hold ground in the international court of law. Given this is the status, it is not possible to think of Plebiscite in J&K.

 

[Awesome]

Haha the Indians have sprung into action over the remote suggestion to an ordinary American citizen that the problems between US and Pakistan's cooperation are mostly stemming from India.

Darn it, and I was going to get S-2 to overhaul American foreign policy towards Pakistan!

Ahh, the agendas Defence.pk is used to peddle around.

 

[Always Neutral]

Why would CIA help ISI take out a guy they were interested in talking to? God, make up your mind western media. Your suspicions on every Pakistani effort in WoT hurts relations between the two country as well as cooperation between both armed forces and builds more trust deficit.

P.S. Pakistan and it's media or everything Pakistan is accused of promoting conspiracy theories and clinging to the most farfetched ideas but reading this article and what conspires in the mind of western journalists it's getting obvious there's quiet some dirty eggs in this basket, too.

We can make up our mind only if someone tells us the truth.

We have been saying for long about a Quetta Shura but you have constantly denied it and now suddenly CIA / ISI catch Mullah Brother and co in Pakistan?

We have been saying for long that US drones fly and attack TTP scums with your permission but GOP lodges a protest after every attack and the attacks still continue?

NY Times says mullah Brother is arrested but your Home Minister says he is not but next day ISPR says he is?

Why blame the media when the GOP is lost.

Regards

 

[Hutchroy]

Mullah’s arrest is ‘own goal’ for US

ON the face of it the capture of Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, the Taliban’s top strategist, as he came out of a madrasah in Karachi seemed a coup.

Jubilant American officials described it as a “game- changer, even more important than the battle in Marjah”, where 15,000 Nato and Afghan soldiers are engaged in their biggest offensive.

“A tremendous achievement for Pakistani intelligence and American collaboration,” crowed the US special representative Richard Holbrooke, in Islamabad last week for talks with Pakistani generals and President Asif Ali Zardari.

After years of handing Islamabad billions of dollars for co- operation in the war on terror, the combination of money and pressure seemed to be finally working.

Unidentified US officials quoted by The New York Times said Baradar was providing a “wealth of information”. His arrest was followed by a round-up in Quetta which netted two other senior Taliban figures, Mullah Abdul Salam and Mullah Mir Mohammad, said to be the shadow governors of the provinces of Kunduz and Baghlan.

While this was the first time Pakistan had acted against the Taliban leadership, Afghans involved in western-backed attempts to start talks with the Taliban to end the war were furious, warning that the arrest might have ruined chances of negotiations.

“It’s a spectacular own goal [for the US],” said one official. “They want to wreck talks,” said a close aide to Afghanistan’s president, Hamid Karzai.

“Mullah Baradar was independently in contact with the Afghan government to find a way for reconciliation and the Pakistanis knew that from their secret agents.”

Baradar had participated in meetings, including one in Saudi Arabia with Karzai’s brother, Ahmed Wali. Other Taliban leaders are sceptical about talks, saying foreign troops must withdraw first.

“The timing of this arrest was very peculiar,” said Barmak Pazhwak, a senior official for Afghanistan and Pakistan at the United States Institute of Peace, a think tank. “The fact he was one of the key Taliban leaders advocating talks suggests the Pakistanis either want more control or to sabotage the process altogether.”

The arrest came days after Pakistan had publicly stated it needed a role in any negotiations. Pakistan has invested a lot in the Taliban, with whom it has worked for more than 20 years. Its military intelligence service, the ISI, helped them to take control of Afghanistan in the 1990s and its generals refer to the Taliban as “assets”.

“The ISI is arresting the Taliban leaders who are reconcilable,” said Idrees Khan, a human rights activist in Peshawar. “By doing this, they want to save them from being killed by those Taliban who don’t want to accept peace.”

After the arrest, US officials said Pakistan should have a place at the negotiating table. But some experts believe that Pakistan’s military has little interest in peace in Afghanistan because then they would no longer be needed by the US and the dollars would dry up.

They point out that the only previous senior Taliban figure to be arrested in Pakistan, Mullah Mansoor Dadullah, had also opened talks with Kabul.

Islamabad’s motive may be financial. Pakistan is bankrupt and the US had blocked $1.3 billion (£840m) of aid because of a dispute over a refusal to grant visas to American security officials. The first $349m tranche of this will be released next week following Baradar’s arrest.

Pakistan has received more than $12 billion in US aid since 2001, and in October the Obama administration agreed a further $7.5 billion over five years.

“I’m not sure I would read too much into this in terms of a major shift by Pakistan,” said Shuja Nawaz, an expert on the Pakistani military.

Others point to Pakistani intelligence co-operation in the recent deaths in a US missile strike in North Waziristan of Muhammad Haqqani, the 30-year-old son of Jalaluddin Haqqani and brother of Sirajuddin Haqqani, Afghan warlords with close links to Al-Qaeda.

Pakistan’s military has long-standing ties to the Haqqanis and previously resisted US pressure to act against them.

“This proves our sincerity in this fight,” said a senior ISI officer after the Haqqani killing. Others question what help they gave.

As always where Pakistan and the Taliban are concerned, the facts are murky.

One thing is clear: Pakistan can no longer claim the Taliban leadership is not in its country. The question is, if it can arrest Baradar, what about the others?

 

[S-2]

"Darn it, and I was going to get S-2 to overhaul American foreign policy towards Pakistan!"

I wouldn't consider S-2's overhauling of American foreign policy towards Pakistan as etched in stone even were it possible.

"I have some very strong ideas on achieving a grand accomodation and would be happy to shared them at some point."

Now is not the point and my views, however strong, may not be fully or partially in accord with your desires. They might be congruent with Pakistan's needs but I'm uncertain whether those needs are even recognized by Pakistanis.

Thanks.

 

[kallol]

Before lecturing me about big words and lack of knowledge about India, learn to spell Swat. It's not SWAT as in Special Weapons And Tactics.

Your nonfactual statements are more a testament of your own ignorance about Pakistan. Moreover just like a typical Indian zealot you've swung into action to repeat your bogus mantras about the fantasy land you imagine India to be. I'm not buying.

If you can counter my views about Kashmir, simply conduct a plebiscite and shut me up once and for all how the hordes of Kashmiris support you.

Dear Aquil,

Let us not hide behind semantics. We can discuss at length on Pakistan's stand on Kashmir in another thread.

However let me give an example of what the world thinks as tyranny (may be normal for you). Read the article below :

22/02/2010
3 Sikhs beheaded by Pak Taliban, heads sent to gurudwara
New Delhi: Three Sikh men were said to have been beheaded by Taliban groups in the FATA area of Pakistan and their heads sent to a gurudwara in Peshawar.

According to information available with India late Sunday evening, one of the Sikhs has been identified as Jaspal Singh. He and his two friends were residents of Badi near Peshawar.

(A PTI report from Pakistan quoted sources as saying there was confusion on the exact numbers, that two men had been beheaded and others were being held hostage. It said the body of Jaspal Singh was found in Khyber while that of Mahal Singh was found in Orakzai Agency. Gurvinder Singh and Gurjit Singh, the sources said, were among those being held captive.)

The men had gone to the FATA area for some work but were held by Taliban groups who apparently asked them to convert to Islam. Sources said the information so far suggests that the men resisted the order and were then beheaded.
Later, their heads were sent to Bhai Joga Singh Gurudwara in Peshawar. The incident has shocked the small Sikh community in Peshawar.

This attack, sources said, comes in the backdrop of repeated threats to the Sikh community there to convert if they wanted to stay on. India has in the past taken up the issue of security of Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan. While the Pakistan government has been committed to providing security to minority groups, this incident has certainly made matters far more dangerous and sensitive.

The Haqqani group and factions of the Quetta Shura along with the Pakistan Taliban are active in these parts of Pakistan which border Afghanistan.

Last year, Taliban militants took over shops and homes of 35 Sikh families and arrested community leaders in Ferozkhel, Orakzai Agency.

Beaheaded body found

Meanwhile, the body of one of the three Sikhs abducted by Pakistani Taliban was found beheaded in Pakistan's restive tribal region, a media report said.

The victim was identified as Jaspal Singh, who was kidnapped along with two other Sikh residents by Taliban militants from Tirah valley in Khyber Agency near the provincial capital Peshawar, the DownNews reported.

A letter was also found with the body warning the relatives of the deceased and other Sikh locals against disclosing the case to the media.

The letter threatened the community with suicide attacks if the details of the beheading and kidnapping were revealed to the media or security forces.

Jaspal's two other companions, Gorwandar Singh and Srujeet Singh, are still being held captive by the militants, the report said.

No group has claimed responsibility for the abduction and murder.

Meanwhile, India's opposition Bhartiya Janata Party has condemned the killing and asked the government to mount "diplomatic pressure" on Pakistan to ensure release of the abducted Sikh residents in the country.

Minorities are facing threats in Pakistan and terrorism presents the real picture of that country, BJP spokesman Ravi Shankar Prasad said in New Delhi.

A large number of Pakistani Sikhs has fled from Orakzai and Tirah valley where the non-Muslims have been charged "Jazai" or Islamic Tax by militants on the pretext of providing security in the area.

Would like to know what is your definition of tyranny.

 

[oceanx]

...
I think the western Pro-Zionist, Anti-Obama media is perturbed with the fact that a Black president will have a face-saving withdrawl whereas White Bush/es had eggs on their face for every unjust war.

That does not seem the fairest assessment, Ms. Jana. Just my humble 2 cents.

 

[oceanx]

"You must think I care. Iraq had demonstrated its willingness to use chemical weapons repeatedly while slaughtering tens of thousands of its own citizens and making war on its neighbors twice. We were justified to make war simply on their multiple U.N. cease fire violations without regard to any weaponized warheads or otherwise."

----------------------------------------------------------

Take your pick, S-2. Dissemblance, dissimulation, disingenuity, dishonesty ... I say all your favourite "D-words" apply here!

Now I was in fact one of those Naifs who believed that the WoT was a War of Necessity - as you said, a "matter of survival".

Until Iraq.

Well what can I say? The moment of truth came for me when Sadam essentially agreed to seeking "retirement" in Paris, yet GWB insisted on sending in troops to turn the country upside down ...

BTW, I lose sleep at night thinking how that young "Shia Democracy" in Iraq was going to burn all that oil and natural gas so the cuddly polar bears won't have a patch of ice to call its own. So how about the USA helping them with a nuclear reactor or two - you know, all as a part of post-Coppenhagen Amrikan generosity toward the envirnment?

What's good for mankind is good for the State Department, no? Gee, I thought we are "surviving" this together?