Threatening war against Pakistan is height of folly: report

[Devil Soul]

Threatening war against Pakistan is height of folly: report
Updated 2 hours ago

WASHINGTON: It's awfully hard for America to admit its high-tech military forces are being defeated in Afghanistan by a bunch of lightly-armed mountain tribesmen that we dismiss as ‘terrorists’, a US paper reported.

But that's what's happening in the "Graveyard of Empires." Washington can't and won't admit it has blundered into a bloody, trillion-dollar fiasco in Afghanistan.

The paper reported that, Last week, outgoing US chairman of the joint chiefs, Adm. Mike Mullen, accused Pakistan's intelligence agency, ISI, of being behind recent high-profile attacks against US targets in Afghanistan that were allegedly staged by the Haqqani network, one of the Taliban's coalition members fighting foreign occupation. An assault by Taliban mujahedin on the US Embassy in Kabul revived very bad dreams of the Viet Cong's war-winning 1968 Tet Offensive.

Much of CIA's intelligence on Afghanistan comes from two sources: electronic intercepts, and the Afghan government's intelligence service.

Most anti-US fighters are far too experienced to use electronic communications they know are easily picked up by US satellites, aircraft, drones, airships, and ground stations.

The Afghan government intelligence service is dominated by Tajik Communists from the old Soviet-created KHAD intelligence agency who are blood enemies of Pakistan and Afghanistan's Pashtun majority.

Afghan spooks have become a primary source of disinformation to US military and civilian intelligence outfits, and likely the source of claims that Pakistan's ISI was behind recent attacks on US targets in Afghanistan. US intelligence was similarly misled in 2003 over Iraq by a "friendly," self-serving intelligence service.

Official Washington is reacting with free-form rage rather than careful thought. No doubt, the example of the Soviet 1989 defeat in Afghanistan increasingly haunts Washington.

Ironically, as I saw myself in the 1980's, the US created the Haqqani network, arming and funding it. In those halcyon days, Jalaluddin Haqqani and Pashtun fighters were hailed by the US as "freedom fighters."

One of the US Senate's least intellectual members, influential Republican Lindsay Graham, is threatening more US attacks on Pakistan "to defend US troops" from "terrorism." US Predator drones are now staging almost daily attacks inside Pakistan -- without even advising the feeble government in Islamabad.

Ever since the days of George W. Bush, US policy in the Muslim world has been driven by a combination of imperial arrogance and profound ignorance.

Hardly any senior members of the Obama administration understand complex Pakistan. There are some experts in Washington who do understand, but they are routinely ignored. The same things happened with Iraq.

Threatening war against Pakistan, a nation of 180 million with a tough military, is the height of folly. US forces have not faced a tough enemy ground force since Vietnam. Pakistan will be no cakewalk.

Pakistan controls most of the supply routes essential to US and NATO forces in Afghanistan. Most Pakistanis now consider the US a bigger enemy than old foe India.

Even crazier, Washington is making warlike threats against nuclear-armed Pakistan, a very close ally of China, an important nuclear power. So far, Beijing has been cautious yet firm in its support of old ally, Pakistan.

But US attacks on Pakistan that go beyond the current raids by CIA drones could draw China into a confrontation with the US. China has quietly made clear it will not allow the US to tear apart Pakistan.

More craziness. The US under both Bush and Barack Obama has been trying to get India militarily involved in Afghanistan. But the Indians were too clever to send combat troops into Afghanistan.

Washington then gave India a green light to pour intelligence agents and money into Afghanistan to support the anti-Taliban Tajik, Uzbek and Hazara minorities. The US has greatly aided the buildup of India's nuclear arsenal -- which has only two targets, Pakistan and China.

All this, of course, has set off alarm bells in Islamabad, which sees Afghanistan as its strategic back yard. Russia and China are also watching this drama with growing unease, torn between concern about militant and intrusive US power.

A blow-up between Pakistan and its sometime American patron would be a calamity for all concerned. Expanding a war into the intersection of the interests of four nuclear-armed powers is the height of irresponsibility and manic behavior.

But so long as America's war in Afghanistan continues it indeed threatens to destabilize Pakistan and runs the risk of nuclear confrontation.
Threatening war against Pakistan is height of folly: report

 

[Observer7]

So what should US do when its people are killed by a cowardly act by some stupid OBL and his allies. What US has done wrong by waging war against those evil doers. Some one has to clean up the mess. Yes its true that US and its allies killed lot of people in Afganistan. But i will tell you in that majority of them where militants and also some innocents. But in war it is difficult to some times identify innocents from militants.
But I would like to ask despite a decade has gone fighting war with those militants. How come they pop up again and again, where do they get weapons. We could understand they could make weapons but how could they manage ammunition all these years. This is not possible by any one's help. And the help they get from Pakistan or say ISI or you name any Army etc. Pakistan kept this monster at its backyard as a strategic asset to have control over Afgan. But What Pakistan
achieved when its people getting killed every day by these monsters. This was done just to counter India. But instead its is getting bitten.

A humble request to People of Pakistan please realize the truth. Stop supporting those radicals. They are never going to do good to you. Condemn any kind of non state actors. Question your Govt. If you think that those radicals will be a counter to India some day, then its wrong. Before they do any thing to India they will destroy whole of Pakistan by there evil thoughts and practice and justifying in the name of religion.
Please stop finding excuses. Treat the disease before it spread to entire nation. Extinguish the flame before it engulf the whole of nation.

 

[Emmie]

Washington then gave India a green light to pour intelligence agents and money into Afghanistan to support the anti-Taliban Tajik, Uzbek and Hazara minorities. The US has greatly aided the buildup of India's nuclear arsenal -- which has only two targets, Pakistan and China.

The US under both Bush and Barack Obama has been trying to get India militarily involved in Afghanistan. But the Indians were too clever to send combat troops into Afghanistan

Hmmm... Double Game, no different from USA and Pakistan

 

[Solomon2]

I wouldn't use the word, "folly". IMO such talk is premature. The U.S. has yet to decide whether UNSC 1373 or UNSC 1368 applies. 1373 if Pakistan is deemed merely negligent - in which case a military conflict is probably out - or 1368 if Pakistan is deemed criminally culpable - in which case action is pre-authorized by the U.N. under paragraph 3 and will, I suspect, be both focused and effective.

 

[Doctor09]

So what should US do when its people are killed by a cowardly act by some stupid OBL and his allies. What US has done wrong by waging war against those evil doers. Some one has to clean up the mess. Yes its true that US and its allies killed lot of people in Afganistan. But i will tell you in that majority of them where militants and also some innocents. But in war it is difficult to some times identify innocents from militants.
But I would like to ask despite a decade has gone fighting war with those militants. How come they pop up again and again, where do they get weapons. We could understand they could make weapons but how could they manage ammunition all these years. This is not possible by any one's help. And the help they get from Pakistan or say ISI or you name any Army etc. Pakistan kept this monster at its backyard as a strategic asset to have control over Afgan. But What Pakistan
achieved when its people getting killed every day by these monsters. This was done just to counter India. But instead its is getting bitten.

A humble request to People of Pakistan please realize the truth. Stop supporting those radicals. They are never going to do good to you. Condemn any kind of non state actors. Question your Govt. If you think that those radicals will be a counter to India some day, then its wrong. Before they do any thing to India they will destroy whole of Pakistan by there evil thoughts and practice and justifying in the name of religion.
Please stop finding excuses. Treat the disease before it spread to entire nation. Extinguish the flame before it engulf the whole of nation.

we know very well who is supporting TTP and providing weapons and money to them ..... TTP is behind the killing of innocent PAKISTANIS.....dont advice us what we should do ...... you should advice your GOVT to close you consulates in Afghanistan that are providing safe heaven and support to anti Pak elements and stop helping BLA
how many Americans died in 9/11 attack and how many iraqis and afghanis died after that kindly compare it ?
Rumors said that 9/11 was inside job what about that ?

 

[Major Sam]

So what should US do when its people are killed by a cowardly act by some stupid OBL and his allies. What US has done wrong by waging war against those evil doers. Some one has to clean up the mess. Yes its true that US and its allies killed lot of people in Afganistan. But i will tell you in that majority of them where militants and also some innocents. But in war it is difficult to some times identify innocents from militants.
But I would like to ask despite a decade has gone fighting war with those militants. How come they pop up again and again, where do they get weapons. We could understand they could make weapons but how could they manage ammunition all these years. This is not possible by any one's help. And the help they get from Pakistan or say ISI or you name any Army etc. Pakistan kept this monster at its backyard as a strategic asset to have control over Afgan. But What Pakistan
achieved when its people getting killed every day by these monsters. This was done just to counter India. But instead its is getting bitten.

A humble request to People of Pakistan please realize the truth. Stop supporting those radicals. They are never going to do good to you. Condemn any kind of non state actors. Question your Govt. If you think that those radicals will be a counter to India some day, then its wrong. Before they do any thing to India they will destroy whole of Pakistan by there evil thoughts and practice and justifying in the name of religion.
Please stop finding excuses. Treat the disease before it spread to entire nation. Extinguish the flame before it engulf the whole of nation.

What India did in nepal and also What about LTTE.... do your own business ...

 

[T90TankGuy]

just one question comes to mind... when and where did the US threaten war?

the only people crying hoarse about war is the Pakistanis.

 

[Devil Soul]

just one question comes to mind... when and where did the US threaten war?

the only people crying hoarse about war is the Pakistanis.

ur rite it was Pakistan who was giving statements such as "all options are on the table against US" etc etc....

 

[T90TankGuy]

ur rite it was Pakistan who was giving statements such as "all options are on the table against US" etc etc....

like i said show me one quote which specifically says they will go to war.

 

[Sinnerman108]

I wouldn't use the word, "folly". IMO such talk is premature. The U.S. has yet to decide whether UNSC 1373 or UNSC 1368 applies. 1373 if Pakistan is deemed merely negligent - in which case a military conflict is probably out - or 1368 if Pakistan is deemed criminally culpable - in which case action is pre-authorized by the U.N. under paragraph 3 and will, I suspect, be both focused and effective.

So this means, when the UN's charter plays in American interest it is Fine,
and as soon as it is AGAINST the american interest, it is an evil loophole and must be give the VETO !

Whenever you wonder, and I am sure you do ... as to why some people want to erradicate the USA system,
do think about the scenario mentioned above.

 

[Solomon2]

^^^^
Are you objecting to the U.S., the U.N., or both? To the Security Council resolutions, or the U.N. Charter itself?

I understand your bitterness - it can't be easy to be a proud citizen of a country which has been on the verge of being declared a terrorist state for two decades. But does that really give you the moral right to lash out at decent people - and decent countries' leaders - instead of the obligation to change your own society?

 

[notorious_eagle]

^^^^
Are you objecting to the U.S., the U.N., or both? To the Security Council resolutions, or the U.N. Charter itself?

I understand your bitterness - it can't be easy to be a proud citizen of a country which has been on the verge of being declared a terrorist state for two decades. But does that really give you the moral right to lash out at decent people - and decent countries' leaders - instead of the obligation to change your own society?

Seriously, an American giving us a lesson on morality and terrorism. Dont get me wrong, i love America and American people but please, people who live in houses made of glass dont throw stone at others.

Do you honestly want me to give you a history lesson on how many American people have been killed directly and indirectly due to American involvement in the last 50 years. You appear to be a smart man, i am sure you are well aware of all those crimes that were committed so i will spare you the lecture. If Pakistan is a terrorist state, than America is no better, actually even worse. It will be interesting to see how the US if she pursues to take the case in UN gets the resolution passed, we all know what happened in 2003 when the US failed to get the full backing of the UN.

 

[Avatar]

Seriously, an American giving us a lesson on morality and terrorism. Dont get me wrong, i love America and American people but please, people who live in houses made of glass dont throw stone at others.

Do you honestly want me to give you a history lesson on how many American people have been killed directly and indirectly due to American involvement in the last 50 years. You appear to be a smart man, i am sure you are well aware of all those crimes that were committed so i will spare you the lecture. If Pakistan is a terrorist state, than America is no better, actually even worse. It will be interesting to see how the US if she pursues to take the case in UN gets the resolution passed, we all know what happened in 2003 when the US failed to get the full backing of the UN.

If you compare Pakistan with America then you must do it on all indicators and not just one (promoting terrorism for a selfish cause). This is perhaps the only indicator where Pakistan is competitive with the US, while performing badly in all other indicators. The difference is that America does a cost/benefit analysis and chooses what suits their interests without affecting the lives of the American people, whereas Pakistan has been passively nurturing terrorism in its own backyard and within, without even caring about itself as long as it has any potential to harm India.

If you look at this from an American tax payers perspective, the US is spending a lot of money on a war which requires full compliance of it's most important ally, Pakistan. When Pakistan complies, the US rewards (evident from history). However, top level intelligence reports that this ally is also involved in backing the same people the US is war with, and was also involved in the killing of US citizens. Even if we negate the fact that Osama, the whole cause of this war was safely hiding in Pakistan walking distance from the military academy, the American tax payer still has more reasons to be frustrated about this than you.

 

[Manticore]

Blaming Pakistan for a Lost War

Eric S. Margolis
It’s awfully hard for the world’s greatest power to admit its high-tech military forces are being beaten in Afghanistan by a bunch of lightly-armed mountain tribesmen.
But that’s what’s happening. Washington is blaming everyone else for the bloody fiasco in Afghanistan, the “Graveyard of Empires.” Right now, the chief whipping boy for US fury is Pakistan, still officially called a “strategic US ally.”
Last week, outgoing U.S. chief of staff Adm. Mike Mullen accused Pakistan’s intelligence agency, ISI, of being behind recent high-profile attacks against U.S. targets in Afghanistan staged by the Haqqani network, one of the Taliban’s coalition fighting foreign occupation. The Pentagon accused the Haqqani network of being “a virtual arm” of ISI. Pakistan strongly denied the charges.
The U.S. is reacting with blind rage rather than careful thought. The example of the Soviet defeat in Afghanistan of 1989 increasingly haunts Washington.
Ironically, as I saw myself in the 1980s, the US itself created the Haqqani network, arming and funding these “freedom fighters.”
One of the United States Senate’s dimmest members, influential Republican Lindsay Graham, threatens attacks on Pakistan “to defend U.S. troops” from “terrorism.”
That’s pretty rich. America invades a country, brands any who resist as “terrorists,” then must invade Pakistan to “protect” its invading troops. Meanwhile, the U.S. is paying bankrupt Pakistan $7.5 billion over five years to sustain the war in Afghanistan.
Ever since the days of George W. Bush, U.S. policy in the Muslim world has been driven by a combination of imperial arrogance and profound ignorance.
When the United States was preparing to invade Iraq in 2003, I had dinner with three of Bush’s most senior advisors. “Tell us about Iraq, Eric,” they asked. As I spoke of Kurds, Sunnis, assorted Shia, and Yazdis, their eyes glazed over.
“Just give us the bottom line,” snapped one Alpha Republican. “The bottom line,” I replied, “is don’t get involved in a messy country you don’t understand at all.”
Well, here we go again with Pakistan. Hardly any senior members of the Obama administration understand complex Pakistan.
But these bulls in South Asia’s china shop are ready to charge in, heedless of the facts.
Threatening war against Pakistan, a nation of 180 million with a tough military, is the height of folly. Pakistan controls most of the supply routes essential to U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan. Most Pakistanis now consider the U.S. a bigger enemy than old foe India.
Even crazier, Washington is making warlike threats against nuclear-armed Pakistan, a close ally of China, an important nuclear power. So far, Beijing has been cautious yet firm in its support of old ally, Pakistan.
But U.S. attacks on Pakistan that go beyond the current raids by CIA drones could draw China into a confrontation with the United States. China has quietly made clear it will not allow the U.S. to tear apart Pakistan in order to grab Islamabad’s Chinese-aided nuclear arsenal.












More craziness: The United States under both Bush and Barack Obama has been trying to get India militarily involved in Afghanistan. But the Indians were too clever to send combat troops into Afghanistan.




Washington then gave India a green light to pour intelligence agents and money into Afghanistan to support the anti-Taliban Tajik, Uzbek and Hazara minorities. The US has greatly aided the buildup of India’s nuclear arsenal—which has only two targets: Pakistan and China.




All this, of course, has set off alarm bells in Islamabad, which sees Afghanistan as its strategic backyard. Russia is also watching this drama with growing unease.
The strategic interests of Pakistan and the United States are different, often in conflict. Yet the U.S. “put a gun to our head,” in the words of a former ISI director (confirmed by former President Pervez Musharraf) and forced Pakistan to join the war against Taliban, a close Pakistani ally and strategic asset.
Why should Pakistan forsake its own strategic interests for those of the United States, whose confused, erratic foreign policy is largely run by domestic special interest groups?
A blowup between Pakistan and its sometime American patron would be a calamity for all concerned. Expanding a war into the intersection of the interests of four nuclear-armed powers is the height of irresponsibility and manic behavior.

 

[Solomon2]

Seriously, an American giving us a lesson on morality and terrorism...You appear to be a smart man, i am sure you are well aware of all those crimes that were committed...If Pakistan is a terrorist state, than America is no better, actually even worse -

Not so. America can't come close to approaching Pakistan's record in 1971. But it's more than that. It's not just a matter of crimes committed. It's about justice done. For example, the Abu Gharib torturer-soldiers were tried and convicted. The mysteriously secret never-brought-into-the-light kidnappers and slayers of Pakistanis past and present remain free at large, as do many other Pakistanis.

It is unequal that some peoples should be better than others. It is upsetting to discover that one's own people are much worse than others - but that realization is the necessary prerequisite to changing course. Better now than never - the longer you wait, the more people will suffer.