“This war against our republic is also a war against Iran’

[mohsen]

well , you must ask yourself , how much of our history before Islam is reached us . all of our history that have survived is through our enemies or stories and they were only intrested about kings and military . even today if you look at the history book of our children you can see how much the writers are interested in kings and wars and how they are interested in scholar and artists and philosophers . just recall the history book you were taught at school , you had to memorize the must insignificant and corrupt degenerate called king of one of the insignificant dynasties in our worst times , but atthe time tens of tens of schoolar and scientist that were living at the the time were not even mentioned .

For post-Islam era you may be right, but for pre-Islam you can hardly find the name of any scientist, and that's because corrupt kings had barred the literacy for everyone except a closed ring of their selective elite people.

well , the rail road was built by Germans not British so I doubt it was the goal . but nevertheless it was not finished and after the war let say there was a lot difference in the personality of the new king with the previous one and also the victor of the war prefered our infrastructure remain the same even degrade

That railroad connected a nowhere in Persian gulf to Iran's capital without going through major cities, what you think isn't important, even the son of Reza shah had admitted it was a treason.

the reform itself was not bad and was necessary, the way it was executed was the problematic disaster.

Nomadic tribes were the best efficient system for producing meat in a mostly deserted country like Iran, so demobilizing them was just another pure treason.

what you call a bad implementation (of white revolution) was just a thoughtless and superficial act of a falling monarchy (if I want to be optimistic), there was no calculation behind it to expect a good implementation.

well let be honest after 40 year of revolution still best of our student in industrial universities are planning to go west , just go and look at institute like Goethe institute and see when is the first open space to learn German language

The real brain drain is when nobody incorporates the brains (whether they stay in Iran or not), and certainly that doesn't apply to Iran.

When you ask a guy about his dream place for travel (as a tourist) and he answers Newyork, then certainly there is a problem in his character! brain drain (with your definition) exists in all countries and Iran isn't an exception (regardless of all exaggerations), even if we were the most advanced country in Asia still it would have happened, part of it is because of west's good brainwashing machine (heaven newyork), and part of it is an unfair universities exam which allows just rich kids (mostly of Tehran) to fill the top universities, people with no commitment.

 

[Stryker1982]

Despite the constant drone strikes Armenia seems to be keeping the front lines stable inflicting more losses on the Azerbijanis. That being said, they need to nullify the drone threat if they want to stop equipment losses. Azerbijanis despite usage of drones constantly are not progressing well for the losses they've incurred.

Albeit, the Southern NK looks like the main point of border fluidity, and a area where Azerbaijan have a higher chance of making major breakthroughs north to Hadrut which they need to reach Stepanakert.

 

[Hack-Hook]

For post-Islam era you may be right, but for pre-Islam you can hardly find the name of any scientist, and that's because corrupt kings had barred the literacy for everyone except a closed ring of their selective elite people.

The situation you mentioned was only applied to the later parts of sassanide era. And even after that we had at the time we had jondi-shapoor university . what about its student . what about the schoolars families who were entitled to education and arts and .....

That railroad connected a nowhere in Persian gulf to Iran's capital without going through major cities, what you think isn't important, even the son of Reza shah had admitted it was a treason.

As i said it was built by german and not british so hardly it porpuse could be transporting englisg troops.

Nomadic tribes were the best efficient system for producing meat in a mostly deserted country like Iran, so demobilizing them was just another pure treason.

No madic tribe was setelled by king reza and have nothing to do with white revolution.
By the way do you knew at the time how much pillaging and vandalism they were comitting in their path . do you knew what a problem they were for farmers. Have you forgot what meant to be their khan. Do you think how much of iran would have remained intact if they were not checked.

 

[Hack-Hook]

what you call a bad implementation (of white revolution) was just a thoughtless and superficial act of a falling monarchy (if I want to be optimistic), there was no calculation behind it to expect a good implementation

You can call that bad implementation as no taught behind how it was executed, i wont argue about that . but majority of that programs were part of the programs executed after revolution . the programs were like a knife how you implement them would have made them good or bad.

To begin with, Iran probably produces more high level graduates than her economy can absorb. The number of Iranian students is considerable, compared to other developing countries

The brain drain is a reality not a boogey man created by western media. And the problem is not why our economy cant absorb all graduate . the problem is that the brightest are waiting to get their visa .

 

[Hack-Hook]

To begin with, Iran probably produces more high level graduates than her economy can absorb. The number of Iranian students is considerable, compared to other developing countries

The brain drain is a reality not a boogey man created by western media. And the problem is not why our economy cant absorb all graduate . the problem is that the brightest are waiting to get their visa .

If so little of what pre-Islamic Iranian scholars and scientists produced was inherited by later generations, then the scientific progress made after the advent of Islam owes more to Iran's Muslim scholars

Well not so little as you think the most important thing was the drive for knowledge .
Have you forget one thing . the percentage of iranian schoolars in early islamic society. From where they come .?
Please dont tell me islam made them schoolar and they had no heritage from somewhere else.

 

[SalarHaqq]

Well not so little as you think the most important thing was the drive for knowledge .
Have you forget one thing . the percentage of iranian schoolars in early islamic society. From where they come .?
Please dont tell me islam made them schoolar and they had no heritage from somewhere else.

My entire remark was a follow on to your own aforegone statement that:

well , you must ask yourself , how much of our history before Islam is reached us . all of our history that have survived is through our enemies or stories and they were only intrested about kings and military . even today if you look at the history book of our children you can see how much the writers are interested in kings and wars and how they are interested in scholar and artists and philosophers . just recall the history book you were taught at school , you had to memorize the must insignificant and corrupt degenerate called king of one of the insignificant dynasties in our worst times , but atthe time tens of tens of schoolar and scientist that were living at the the time were not even mentioned .

So basically, you were explaining that a lot of knowledge about pre-Islamic scholars was lost.

Now if what you meant to say is that it was lost at some later points in time, rather than in the early Islamic period, then that's something else.

At any rate, one or two centuries after the fall of the Sassanian empire, the great majority of Iranians had converted to Islam and Iranian culture and civilization became Islamic - which is not to say we should deny its specificities. From then on, Islamic scholars were one of the main driving forces behind scientific and technological progress. On the whole, pre-Islamic traditions did play their part, but so does the present Islamic Iranian tradition.

Shia Islam added its very own contribution: given the minority status of Shia Muslims within the Islamic world, as well as various instances of discrimination and persecution under certain caliphal and other administrations, a specific culture developed among Shia communities whereby education was particularly valued, including as a means of securing improved social status through upward mobility.

The brain drain is a reality not a boogey man created by western media. And the problem is not why our economy cant absorb all graduate . the problem is that the brightest are waiting to get their visa .

I didn't deny that some high performing graduates emigrate, but I reminded the fact that this is far from being exclusive to Iran, and that the effects of this phenomenon are exaggerated by the hostile mass media.

The 7.5 million south Koreans who live outside their country's borders have at least similar if not higher education levels on average than the 2 to 3 million Iranians residing abroad. Yet, this isn't considered to be a major hindrance to south Korea's continued development.

When it comes to Iranians, the relative proportion of high performing graduates among emigrants might be a little higher, but the decisive question here is whether this creates gaps on the labor market, i. e. whether the domestic demand for this specific kind of workforce is sufficiently covered by those who choose to remain and work in Iran. And in effect, enough 'brilliant minds' do stay in Iran to satisfy the industry, agriculture and service sector's demand.

In any case, their numbers and proportion are considerably superior to pre-Revolution days. Meaning that compared to pre-revolutionary times, Iranian universities nowadays produce many more highly performing graduates, who then feed Iran's scientific and economic development - this is essentially what this discussion was about.

On a sidenote, one mustn't forget that for an economy to be dynamic, academic geniuses are not the only type of people required, a varied labor force is needed. In Iranian society, there is a cultural tendency towards underrating inferior academic qualifications, which drives everyone to try to obtain a higher education degree at any cost, which in turn can lead to situations where the labor market is saturated with relatively over-qualified job seekers, some of whom will then be frustrated by their inability to find a job in line with their level of education.

When talking about the role of western propaganda, it's not just that about its habit of blowing out of proportion every issue faced by Iran (including this one), but also that this propaganda and its fallacious idealization of western society and so-called "lifestyle", is the main cause behind the desire of some high performing Iranian graduates to emigrate. A relative deficit of patriotism among these social categories (compared to simpler workers and peasants) is another factor behind this.

After moving to western countries, some land in well paid and intellectually demanding professions (working hours however are much more exhausting compared to Iran), others fail to do so and end up having to work as waiters, taxi drivers and the like. But few are those who manage to avoid getting subjected to the alienation, uprooting as well as spiritual and anthropological 'zombification' inherent to life under the inverted-totalitarian, secular liberal order of the west.

 

[Hack-Hook]

My entire remark was a follow on to your own aforegone statement that:



So basically, you were the one claiming that a lot of knowledge about pre-Islamic scholars was lost.

Now if what you meant to say is that it was lost at some later points in time, rather than in the early Islamic period, then that's something else.

At any rate, one or two centuries after the fall of the Sassanian empire, the great majority of Iranians had converted to Islam and Iranian culture and civilization became Islamic - which is not to say we should deny its specificities. From then on, Islamic scholars were one of the main driving forces behind scientific and technological progress. On the whole, pre-Islamic traditions did play their part, but so does the present Islamic Iranian tradition.

Shia Islam added its very own contribution: given the minority status of Shia Muslims within the Islamic world, as well as various instances of discrimination and persecution under certain caliphal and other administrations, a specific culture developed among Shia communities whereby education was particularly valued, including as a means of securing improved social status through upward mobility.



I didn't deny that some high performing graduates emigrate, but reminded the fact that this is far from being exclusive to Iran, and that the effects of this phenomenon are exaggerated by the mass media controlled by Iran's existential enemies.

The 7.5 million south Koreans who live outside their country's borders have at least similar if not higher education levels on average than the 2 to 3 million Iranians residing abroad. Yet, this isn't considered to be a major hindrance to south Korea's continued development.

When it comes to Iranians, the relative proportion of very high performing graduates among emigrants might possibly be a little higher, but the decisive question here is whether this creates gaps on the labor market, i. e. whether the domestic demand for this specific type of workforce is sufficiently covered by all those who choose to stay and work in Iran. And in effect, enough 'brilliant minds' do stay in Iran to satisfy the industry, agriculture and service sector's demand.

In any case, their numbers and proportion are considerably superior to pre-Revolution days. In other words, Iranian, universities produce way more highly performing graduates who then feed Iran's scientific and economic development than they did prior to 1979 - and this is essentially what this discussion was about.

On a sidenote, one mustn't forget that for an economy to be dynamic, academic geniuses are not the only category of people required, a varied labor force is needed. In Iranian society, there is a cultural tendency to under-value lesser academic qualifications at the personal level, which can lead to situations where the labor market is saturated with relatively over-qualified job seekers, who in turn will be frustrated by their inability to find jobs that reflect their level of education.

When talking about the role western propaganda, it's not just that it has a habit of blowing out of proportion every issue faced by Iran (including this one), but also that this propaganda and its fallacious, baseless idealization of western society and so-called "lifestyle", is the main cause behind the desire of some high performing Iranian graduates to emigrate. A relative deficit of patriotism (compared to simpler workers and peasants) among these social categories is another factor behind this.

Some, after moving to western countries, do land in well paid and intellectually demanding professions (which are, however, highly work-intensive and exhausting compared to similar ones in Iran), others fail to do so and end up working as waiters, taxi drivers and the like. But few are those who manage not to get subjected to the alienation, uprooting as well as spiritual and anthropological 'zombification' inherent to life under the inverted-totalitarian, secular liberal socio-economic and political order of the west.

Let just say i don't like it when i see at university our best interns the ones the one who understand the meaning of medicine are not studying to stay here and everyone is working twice two or three country and want to go . sad part is they don't care which one .
My brother was studying civil engineering at sharif university (i think his field was something like soil engineering) he and more than 80% of his class left iran and they did it with each others not one by one.
And i knew the percentage for the rest of fields in that university is not alot better.
To be honest i dont like ut when before revolution they encouraged it or like know that they are agnostic about it and try to downplay it .

 

[Sineva]

Any and all inter-communal killings in Iraq were triggered by the so-called "Islamic State"'s 2006 bombing of the Al-Askari shrine, which is holy to Shia Muslims.

Prior to that, no Shia Iraqi group had engaged in killing civilians. As for Iran, she never directed nor ordered her allies to commit revenge killings even after the 2006 attack.

It's just that when you have a terrorist organization openly declaring war on your community (elderly, women and children included), bombing holy sites as well as civilian places on a near daily basis, to some extent revenge killings won't be evitable, whether carried out by pro-Iranian or other Shia Iraqis not necessarily loyal to Iran.

Try sending a group of people to Mecca, among whom you recruit a handful of terrorists; have these terrorists first blow up the Kaaba (nauzubillah), followed by attacks on civilian locations (such as busy markets) every day for several years in a row, then see what happens not just to the terrorists but also to the people they stem from, and whether or not Saudi rulers will be able to fully control their subjects in such a horrible event.



No, it didn't. Substantiate your claim with evidence.



They were volunteers and did not need to be brainwashed. Also these were not little children but usually in their teens. Iranians are very patriotic and religious people, so in case their homeland is attacked, the average teenager is guaranteed to be strongly motivated to join the frontlines, propaganda or not.



Sorry, but no. Show us some hard evidence that Iranian forces engaged in such actions in Syria. Iran's is not in command of every unit of the Syrian armed forces.



Many Shia lost their lives too. What's with the attempt to paint Iranian authorities as somehow biased against minorities, which isn't grounded in truth?

But as said, we're talking about terrorists groups here, not about ordinary civilians. They took up arms against a government which happened to result from a popular revolution, and therefore enjoyed (and enjoys) the support of a great majority of its citizens. We're certainly not talking about random civilians being deliberately targeted!



That's a complete fabrication.

1) Fundamentally, the distinction between Sunni and Shia mosques is questionable. They are largely identical indeed, the only possible differences being the public call to prayer (where Shia Muslims add two additional lines compared to their Sunni peers), and whether the prayer leader is a Sunni or a Shia.

However, Iranian authorities never forbade Shia Muslims to pray behind a Sunni imam or vice versa. If some people have a problem with that, they are in no position to label the Iranian government as "sectarianist".

2) Even so, Tehran actually does actually have around 100 Sunni mosques, which are fully controlled by Sunnis, for a population of around 600.000 Sunni Muslims (and perhaps 800.000 or 900.000 Sunni Muslims in the Greater Tehran metropolitan area), not 2 million.

Sunni Muslims represent about 6%, perhaps 7% of Iran's population; Tehran has 9 million inhabitants, Greater Tehran about 15 million. Why do you expect the percentage of Sunni Muslims in the capital to be more than twice the national average?

And here is undeniable proof for the existence of Sunni mosques in Tehran:

The interview was conducted by an Albanian academic, Olsi Jazexhi, who visited Iran and is himself a Sunni Muslim.

The alim you can see in the video is the Sunni Muslim imam of Tehran's famous Sadeghieh-district Sunni mosque, which is entirely managed by Sunnis and even includes a center of learning for Sunni figh. This mosque is a large four storey building no less.

The same respected Sunni Muslim alim, at the beginning of the interview, confirms there are 100 Sunni mosques in Tehran.

He debunks the propaganda that claims Sunni Muslims are facing restrictions to their religious freedom in Iran. He goes on to explain that Sunni Iranians are absolutely free to praise the caliphs Abu Bakr, Omar and Osman, as well the Prophet's (sws) wife Aisha. In effect and for good measure, he praises them on camera for everyone to see.

When asked if they are free to teach their faith to students, the scholar replies that the only thing they're expected to refrain from is classifying their Shia Muslim brothers as kuffar.

Another video of a Sunni imam leading prayers at a Tehran mosque:

When it comes to Tehran's Sunni mosques, the sole practical limitations they face, is that their Sunni version of the azan should not be amplified outside the mosque. Within the premises of their mosques however, they have no problem at all performing their azan. And this only applies to Shia-majority regions: in the Sunni-majority areas of Iran, the Sunni azan is allowed to be audible everywhere.

See undisputable proof here:

You claim I am being misled by propaganda, yet here you are clearly rehashing a typical piece of anti-Iranian disinformation without having had the curiosity or objectivity to search by yourself for possible evidence to the contrary.

3) In the Sunni-majority areas of Iran, the number of (Sunni) mosques per inhabitant is superior to the number of (Shia) mosques per inhabitant in the country's Shia-majority areas!

4) Not only are there plenty of Sunni mosques, Iran is also home to numerous well-regarded Sunni Islamic centers of learning, which even attract foreign students.

A Sunni Muslim brother from Herat, Afghanistan studying Islam at Al-Mostafa University in Golestan province, Iran:

Shaykh Ismail Subhani from Azamiyeh madrasah in Bandar Torkaman speaks about Sunni Islam in Iran:

Now these are hardly things a government with a sectarianist bias against Sunni Muslims would do.

For someone claiming to be of secular persuasion, you appear to be quite receptive to propaganda issued by religious types (usually sectarianists) opposed to Iran.



Iran is blessed with something that sets it apart from virtually every other state on earth, except for a few others such as North Korea, Venezuela and Cuba: the immense courage and fortitude it takes to challenge the zio-American imperial order head on.

Iran is not in a conflict with Pakistan.



Qualifying holders of dissenting views as "mentally ill", where do I know this from? Ah yes, the USSR it was.

My upbringing caused me to stay respectful despite your ad hominems. That's not bad already.



That's a wholly erroneous assessment, devoid of historic veracity to those in the know of these topics.

Well said sir,very well said.
I can remember more than a few commenters trying the same sort of half assed "equivalency" arguments back during the fighting against,and indeed the final destruction of the so called islamic state.Its seems that they either couldnt or wouldnt understand the difference between a group whos stated policy was the deliberate targeting of religous and ethnic minorities vs occasional non sanctioned illegal criminal acts of revenge by members of the forces fighting them.
Effectively it was a bit like pretending that there was no difference between the axis and allies in ww2 because they all wore uniforms,carried guns and dropped bombs on people......
For me the thing that said it all was that you had sunnis fleeing the "paradise" of the islamic state to seek whatever refuge they could in the shiite areas of iraq,which seems a curious thing to do if the pmus were no better than is.
Lastly whenever you hear the claim of "no sunni mosques in tehran" you can automatically tell that that person has been drinking the sectarian kool-aid.