This is less than what Pakistan has already spent: PM Gilani (On U.S. Aid)

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Can any body provide the exact figures regarding PA's expenditure in COIN ops and the disbursements by the Centcom(USA) and the amount PA owns USA...??

 

[Tshering22]

Well before 2004 we hadn't had much to do with the war, but Musharraf said in an interview that the US threatened to bomb Pakistan if they did not side with them.



WTF? We spent $45 billion on your war! PAKISTANI TAX PAYERS' money has been wasted. The US has not payed back the damage caused to Pakistan. And you talk as if your doing us a big favor!

show me the evidence that ISI is at this time helping the talibs

Attacks on our soil by NATO, what do you expect us to do???



We should...



You funded the Taliban to fight the soviets, now they turn against you, some might say you got what you deserve.
The US said they would invade us if necessary, are we that powerless?


LOL, this is so precious, you fund terror against others and if it's the other way round it's wrong, true righteousness.

you funded terrorism and guess what? It bit you in the @SS!

^ Dude, I would agree with you if other nations in the regions aren't affected. Which is not the case. Taliban, AQ and company have become a nuisance for everyone including CAR and Russia and even issued threats to your big brother China openly in tapes.

So this is not about just Afghan-Russia war anymore. It is about the entire region. The simple reason you're into this is because you're located in the epicenter of it all and naturally sharing borders would mean additional trouble.

I would also like to know that how come you spent $ 45 billion on WOT which would mean that every year since the last 10 years you've been spending roughly about 60% of your annual defence budget on WOT if we take 2008 estimate figures your government mentioned about your defence budget. Isn't this really an eyebrow raising exaggeration if you take the calculation estimates?

60% of your military budget is being spent on WOT? That too with US providing half the equipment and resources? You could never avoid joining WOT in Afghanistan simply because your economy and government depends on US way too much and also your earlier mistake of meddling in the first Afghan-Soviet war. Had you remained neutral then, this wouldn't have come to such an extent.

Also, you've pointed out that you would stand against USA if they strike Pakistan's soil in pursuit of Taliban. Any military resistance from your country at this point would simply sky-rocket the opinion of you fostering terrorism and protecting it around the globe and those who didn't believe in it earlier would start doing then.

Certainly US has no right to invade another indepedent country but if that country is unable to keep terrorists out of its borders and these terrorists build safe havens unbeknownst to your government, then at the most you can cooperate with US jointly which you already are as you say.

A counter-strike would destroy the embattled image that you've got in the eyes of a large portion of this world.

Forget that I'm an Indian saying this and think about it with a cool mind. You'll see what I am trying to point.

 

[Omar1984]

how can someone drag a whole coutry to war?? and why did you have to side with us?? arent you sovereign to take your own decisions?

Obviously Pakistan was dragged into this never ending war OF terror. It was never Pakistan's war, it was Bush's war. Pakistan was doing far better before the US invasion of Afghanistan. Pakistan didnt see a single case of suicide bombing in its soil before the US invasion of Afghanistan, and Pakistan was doing far better economically before the US invasion of Afghanistan. There was no such thing as TTP before the US invasion of Afghanistan. And life was peaceful in all areas of Pakistan (including border areas with Afghanistan) before the US invasion of Afghanistan.


Pakistan got a rough deal by becoming America's front-line ally in this war OF terror. No other country has suffered more than Pakistan because of this war OF terror. No other country has lost more civilians, more troops, and more property and infrastructure than Pakistan has because of this war OF terror.


This war OF terror is neither in Pakistan's interest nor in America's interest. America is destroying itself due to this never-ending war OF terror and also dragging Pakistan with it.

 

[Omar1984]

(01) Pakistan provides the services, trucks, fuel and supplies first
(02) Then Pakistan transports it
(03) US and Nato do not pay for the repair of bridges and highways
(04) Then Pakistan bills for reimbursement
(05) Security personnel salaries for the convoys

There is no aid, this is all reimbursement. We also need to start collecting portion of the repair of bridges and highways, plus cost of extra salaries for security. In the end this is costing more than what we are getting reimbursed.

The repair to fix the damages to the roads & highways of Pakistan caused by NATO trucks costs Pakistan more than this "aid".


Nato trucks damaging Indus Highway | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

 

[K^se]

If you don't like it, then don't take it..

 

[Hulk]

I am interested to know how Pakistan has spent more?

I hear talk about roads getting damaged, I want to ask if those trucks were not paying toll tax? If yes than that should cover the damage of roads plus make some money right?

 

[Sliver]

apparently you seem to be unaware that the US is the most powerful country in the world that is not exactly afraid to use force and kill

so you got scared of it? I thought someone in your establishment ( a certain zaid hamid ) has claimed its easy to push us off the region. why dont you try him?

FAO pak members - you see what i mean - give then an inch and they take a mile- this sort of response does not deserve an answer - the sooner we are shot of the US the better

For all members here - we give them aid after their president asks for it - we give them choppers for relief, f16s for them to feel safe - and they "demand" more of the aid when US is not really in strongest of economic situations and moreover we have videos beaming over of common Pakistani shouting "down with America" while your students come to US and Politicians and top bureaucrats make money out of milking you guys and showing us as the enemy! give them a whole mile and they demand the country!

more threats incredible - we are a sovereign nation remember

you are the one threatening closing of the supply lines so i cant threaten you back? if i threaten its a huge mistake while what you do is????

except when you support it...or create it...or indulge in it.......

whatever in the past, currently we are trying to get the scum of the planet off the planet. if you are not in it, dont join it - get your people to vote out the current people and get out of NATO. we will never stop going behind these people.

To the Pakistani members - the US believes it is doing the right thing by supporting the Pakistani people - with all the aid that we think is right - even though we are in trillions of deficit. Its the normal tax payer money of America asking you to support us in finishing this menace so the common tax payer in USA, Pakistan, India and every nation affected by terrorism from this part can live in peace.

The aid is in goodwill and the good will dwindles with people ranting about pointlessly.

 

[airuah]

This was never our war to begin with!

The Talibs were un known in Pakistan before 2001.
All of a sudden we are dragged into a war that isn't ours, we have to side with them, let their supplies through and fight on their side.

the taliban were unknown to you before 2001?.....arent you the next door neigbour to afganistan....werent you the country who supported their rule (or rather their attrocities) so that you can have some clout in afganistan.

If they keep this up, we should cut off supplies, make peace with the Taliban, and then make them realise just how important we are to them.

yup try black mailing them......do you know what will happen if the US just leaves Afganistan....most of you would want that...but have you ever thought about what will happen to your nation ...dont you think your country would be in the middle of a war fighiting for soverignity when the taliban tries to take over.....imagine a taliban style govt in pakistan, heck you would not have internet to post stuff....and who is there to give reimbursements then? so just think before about the after effects before you wish for or threaten somebody. i do consider this is the problem with pakistan...short term desicions.no one makes decisions that will be helpful in the long term

 

[foxbat]

This was never our war to begin with!

The Talibs were un known in Pakistan before 2001.
All of a sudden we are dragged into a war that isn't ours, we have to side with them, let their supplies through and fight on their side.

We have payed for the war, both financially and human lives.
All we get in return is a bit of useless aid, a kick in the @SS and the US saying that we aren't doing enough.

not to mention regular illegal drone attacks on Pakistani soil.

WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A MAJOR NON-NATO ALLY!!! it's time they treated us like one.

If they keep this up, we should cut off supplies, make peace with the Taliban, and then make them realise just how important we are to them.

1. Pakistan was roped in to be the front of the war against Soviets in Afghanistan by the US
2. Pakistan was the poster child that rallied Mujahids from all over the world to fight Soviets in Afghanistan using resources provided by the NATO
3. Once Soviets were defeated, NATO went on its way, leaving the cesspool of trained fighters behind
4. Pakistan used those fighters (now called the Taliban) to establish its control in Afghanistan
5. However, they soon starting getting out of control of Pakistan and established themselves in the restive areas of NWFP along with Afghanistan.
6. They also developed ties with Al Queda and hosted Bin Laden as state guest
7. When 9/11 happened, They already controlled a large part of Pakistani territory, but Pakistan govt did not have the resources or will to dislodge them since they anyway were considered a strategic asset against India
8. USA gave Pakistan an ultimatum to side with the US and clean up the mess both of them created to begin with, or to get bombed to the stone age
9. We all know what happened post that

Now understand that you are cleaning a mess that was created by you in the first place, and was swept under the carpet prior to 9/11. 9/11 just forced you to lift the rug and start vaccuuming. Sooner or later you had to do that if you didnt want to go the Afghanistan way.

And hence it is your fight

If they keep this up, we should cut off supplies, make peace with the Taliban, and then make them realise just how important we are to them.

Dont get too carried away by the recent token gesture of the GoP that was more of a political stunt than anything else.

 

[Omar1984]

I am interested to know how Pakistan has spent more?

I hear talk about roads getting damaged, I want to ask if those trucks were not paying toll tax? If yes than that should cover the damage of roads plus make some money right?

NATO trucks pays no taxes for using Pakistan's roads & highways.


Pakistan is considering just now to impose tax on NATO trucks.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/econom...onsiders-imposing-tax-nato-supply-trucks.html


It costs Pakistan billions of rupees just to fix the roads & highways damaged by the massive NATO trucks.

This "aid" is really just peanuts when you count the amount of damage to Pakistan by NATO and U.S. forces.

 

[Jungibaaz]

1. Pakistan was roped in to be the front of the war against Soviets in Afghanistan by the US
2. Pakistan was the poster child that rallied Mujahids from all over the world to fight Soviets in Afghanistan using resources provided by the NATO
3. Once Soviets were defeated, NATO went on its way, leaving the cesspool of trained fighters behind
4. Pakistan used those fighters (now called the Taliban) to establish its control in Afghanistan
5. However, they soon starting getting out of control of Pakistan and established themselves in the restive areas of NWFP along with Afghanistan.
6. They also developed ties with Al Queda and hosted Bin Laden as state guest


7. When 9/11 happened, They already controlled a large part of Pakistani territory, but Pakistan govt did not have the resources or will to dislodge them since they anyway were considered a strategic asset against India
8. USA gave Pakistan an ultimatum to side with the US and clean up the mess both of them created to begin with, or to get bombed to the stone age
9. We all know what happened post that

Now understand that you are cleaning a mess that was created by you in the first place, and was swept under the carpet prior to 9/11. 9/11 just forced you to lift the rug and start vaccuuming. Sooner or later you had to do that if you didnt want to go the Afghanistan way.

And hence it is your fight



Dont get too carried away by the recent token gesture of the GoP that was more of a political stunt than anything else.

The Taliban were never a problem for us before 2001 and we were dragged into this war, and when the US leaves we may choose to make peace with them...

If the US hadn't abandoned Pakistan things would have been different.

 

[somebozo]

1. Pakistan was roped in to be the front of the war against Soviets in Afghanistan by the US

Yep, thanks to evil designs of Indra and her communist partners. We fought for our survival and emerged victorious. Proud of that.

2. Pakistan was the poster child that rallied Mujahids from all over the world to fight Soviets in Afghanistan using resources provided by the NATO

Difference between mujahideen and talibs. Mujahideen have been dispersed since the end of war and been absorbed as regular commandos as well. The talibs are gangs of local thugs and warlord mostly backed by foreign countries especially India.

3. Once Soviets were defeated, NATO went on its way, leaving the cesspool of trained fighters behind

First NATO wasnt even remotely involved. It was CIA, ISI & Mossad with lots of dirty tactics. The mujahideen were sent by their sponsoring countries as volunteers and to create a pool of trained fighters. Many of them were absorbed as commandos and instructors upon their return. Saudi arabia built out a whole of its professional armed forced by drawing on experience of Afghan-Soviet war.

4. Pakistan used those fighters (now called the Taliban) to establish its control in Afghanistan

Talibans were the only choice left behind for Pakistan to work with who could hold Afghanistan stable rather than continuous gang fight whose after effects would definitely spill into Pakistan. End of the day Afghanistan is not Pakistan and we choose to leave them at their will as long their actions did not disturbed us. A post war unstable Afghanistan would have engulfed Pakistan in a civil war.

5. However, they soon starting getting out of control of Pakistan and established themselves in the restive areas of NWFP along with Afghanistan.

Our own loose handiness and trusting some tribals who proved to be daemon in disguise.

6. They also developed ties with Al Queda and hosted Bin Laden as state guest

That were the Afghan talibans and Osama was hosted in Afghanistan as a hero by CIA during the war. They simply decided to hold on this hero for global jihadi ambitions.

7. When 9/11 happened, They already controlled a large part of Pakistani territory, but Pakistan govt did not have the resources or will to dislodge them since they anyway were considered a strategic asset against India

Pre 9/11 the talibans were 99% holed up in Afghanistan. The amateur bombing campaign by desperate US without proper ground preparation caused their influx into Pakistan often disguised as refugees. Bombing was not the solution here but desperate and embarrassed white house wanted to give an adrenaline rush to war hysteria.

8. USA gave Pakistan an ultimatum to side with the US and clean up the mess both of them created to begin with, or to get bombed to the stone age

That was a false statement played by Mushy for his 15 seconds of fame. Pakistan was already under sanctions and the best US could offer was to lift sanctions in exchange of collaboration. If there was a cent of truth to that statement we would be the first rather than Afghanistan. The fact is that America was on expedition of a false war staged through propaganda behind the bogeyman characterization of single person. Any delays would have given US public time to think and uncovered the scam they were being lured into.

9. We all know what happened post that

Now understand that you are cleaning a mess that was created by you in the first place, and was swept under the carpet prior to 9/11. 9/11 just forced you to lift the rug and start vaccuuming. Sooner or later you had to do that if you didnt want to go the Afghanistan way.

And hence it is your fight



Dont get too carried away by the recent token gesture of the GoP that was more of a political stunt than anything else.

Cleaning the mess created by foreign agencies and dumped on our head a blackmail tactic due to our own negligence. We failed to handle the situation post Afghan-Soviet war and CIA built its network in our heartland under the disguise of religious solidarity.Thanks to political wrestling of PPP and PML!

The Taliban were never a problem for us before 2001 and we were dragged into this war, and when the US leaves we may choose to make peace with them...

If the US hadn't abandoned Pakistan things would have been different.

There is a difference between mujahideen and talibans..Mujahideen were volunteer force which fought with great bravery and tactics. The talibans were constoriums of local wardlord thugs which have been at the core of trouble for Pakistan. Drugs, narcotics, weapon culture, smuggling etc etc. Just look at the attitude of few taliban dignitaries towards pakistan