This is how PAF Flies

[CriticalThought]

Very easy, the pilot approaches the designated area, lines up, runs in for practice bomb release and pulls up sharply.

It's a hard bank followed by a slight pull. Could be anything.

 

[Windjammer]

It's a hard bank followed by a slight pull. Could be anything.

And that what looks like an Oasis is a firing range.

 

[Windjammer]

https://www.facebook.com/

 

[Talon]

How can you tell its a bombing run, besides whoever put the title on the youtube clip? Seems like they are flying pretty high for a bombing run, and if they are practicing using LGBs etc, no way to tell from the video.

I have visited PAF ranges..F16s never come low for bombing so the video title could be correct.
P.S looks like Thal Range or Sonmiani

Well I was referring to the terrain more than the actual flying, even if it isn't a complete loop. It's reminiscent, is all I implied.

I'd put that at 500 ft above terrain. No way the jocks go lower than that. If you don't have a video it didn't happen

And just because I am in a rebellious, anti-establishment, anti-Viper-Elitism mood, "Thunders forever until Vipers wipe their hangers"

I have a cockpit video of PAF mirage going very low at a range..pity you cant upload videos here.
EDIT : Screenshots could work i guess

And here's a low level F7 selfie (very old)

Several things come to mind.

1. Looks like Pakistani version of Mach loop.
2. @Foxtrot Delta stole my words This type of flying is essential against radar threats. Using mountains as protection, reach near the enemy, perform a fast pull, release ALCM, and scramble, potentially under the cover of mountains again.
3. They need to practice high speed flying amongst these mountains. Even hold 1v1 1vmany exercises here.
4. Conversely, PAF needs good radar coverage here so that the enemy cannot use these approaches against us.

In point 2 you are using these mountains for surprise attack and in point 3 you suggest BFMs here..KEA YE KHULA TAZAD NI? I mean if these could be used for surprise attack than how would an interception take place?
Also in real life Radars usually dont detect low aircrafts until they are 20-40 miles out.

 

[CriticalThought]

I have visited PAF ranges..F16s never come low for bombing so the video title could be correct.
P.S looks like Thal Range or Sonmiani


I have a cockpit video of PAF mirage going very low at a range..pity you cant upload videos here.
EDIT : Screenshots could work i guess
View attachment 535711

And here's a low level F7 selfie (very old)
View attachment 535712


In point 2 you are using these mountains for surprise attack and in point 3 you suggest BFMs here..KEA YE KHULA TAZAD NI? I mean if these could be used for surprise attack than how would an interception take place?
Also in real life Radars usually dont detect low aircrafts until they are 20-40 miles out.

Us using them to hide in presence of our radars. Them using it in presence of our radars. That's the difference.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

That dont make sense.

Very easy, the pilot approaches the designated area, lines up, runs in for practice bomb release and pulls up sharply.

 

[Talon]

Us using them to hide in presence of our radars. Them using it in presence of our radars. That's the difference.

How high were you when you wrote this reply..Why would we hide from our own radars?
And let me rephrase my question..If the enemy is successfully hiding from our radars then how will an interception take place?

 

[CriticalThought]

How high were you when you wrote this reply..Why would we hide from our own radars?
And let me rephrase my question..If the enemy is successfully hiding from our radars then how will an interception take place?

Major comprehension problems on your part. Read again, and keep repeating until you actually get it.

 

[Talon]

Major comprehension problems on your part. Read again, and keep repeating until you actually get it.

I am a noob.. kindly address in words understandable for a lay man

 

[CriticalThought]

I am a noob.. kindly address in words understandable for a lay man

First of all, you are no noob.

Second, we sometimes leave out words when in a hurry, or talking with people on the same understanding level.

Pointwise:

1. There should be proper radar coverage so any enemy aircrafts trying to use these mountains as natural shields are thwarted.

2. In case they commit the folly and are detected by our excellent radar network, we will need to intercept then, hence the need to practice BFM.

3. I am not sure how close this is to the border, but we should utilize this terrain to hide from the likes of S-400.

Clear?

 

[Talon]

First of all, you are no noob.

Second, we sometimes leave out words when in a hurry, or talking with people on the same understanding level.

Pointwise:

1. There should be proper radar coverage so any enemy aircrafts trying to use these mountains as natural shields are thwarted.

2. In case they commit the folly and are detected by our excellent radar network, we will need to intercept then, hence the need to practice BFM.

3. I am not sure how close this is to the border, but we should utilize this terrain to hide from the likes of S-400.

Clear?

I had a discussion on S400 and radar detection few days ago with a pilot and according to him in real life Radars usually detect low flying aircrafts only when aggressor is 20-40nm.Imagine terrain of Bahwalpur and Rajasthan,aircrafts can easily fly below 250ft in such area.

If enemy is flying low in the terrain we are talking about I dont think we'll be able to detect them.

But yet again I dont know at what places PAF has installed its Radars,most probably we wont allow them to reach this much inside.

Lastly,you were talking about the enemy using these mountains as cover and as I said earlier if they are successful in this then we'll only know about them when they are pulling up for bombing run so in my POV no interception can take place on such terrain in such scenario.BFMs and interception is a very complex topic we can never agree on the same point i guess. e.g you could bring AWACS in this discussion and whole perception would change but again you cant keep AWACS 24/7 in the air.

 

[CriticalThought]

I had a discussion on S400 and radar detection few days ago with a pilot and according to him in real life Radars usually detect low flying aircrafts only when aggressor is 20-40nm.Imagine terrain of Bahwalpur and Rajasthan,aircrafts can easily fly below 250ft in such area.

If enemy is flying low in the terrain we are talking about I dont think we'll be able to detect them.

But yet again I dont know at what places PAF has installed its Radars,most probably we wont allow them to reach this much inside.

Lastly,you were talking about the enemy using these mountains as cover and as I said earlier if they are successful in this then we'll only know about them when they are pulling up for bombing run so in my POV no interception can take place on such terrain in such scenario.BFMs and interception is a very complex topic we can never agree on the same point i guess. e.g you could bring AWACS in this discussion and whole perception would change but again you cant keep AWACS 24/7 in the air.

We can at least have AWACS coverage during hostilities.

Instead of radsr coverage, I should have said sensor network. This includes, for example, passive radar sensors and IR sensors.

To navigate such terrain, the enemy may use millimetre wave radar. So we should at least have passive sensing for that. Now combine that with acoustic, and wind sensors. Both effects should get amplified.

Finally, we should see radar network like a spider's web. Using reflections from the terrain, EM waves can be kept within the valleys. Enemies looking for gaps in radar coverage will be attracted, and only find out until too late.

Given enough numbers of radars, no terrain is complex enough. And after the OBL raid incident, complacency cannot be excused. The enemy may use stealth helis through this terrain.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

We can at least have AWACS coverage during hostilities.

Instead of radsr coverage, I should have said sensor network. This includes, for example, passive radar sensors and IR sensors.

To navigate such terrain, the enemy may use millimetre wave radar. So we should at least have passive sensing for that. Now combine that with acoustic, and wind sensors. Both effects should get amplified.

Finally, we should see radar network like a spider's web. Using reflections from the terrain, EM waves can be kept within the valleys. Enemies looking for gaps in radar coverage will be attracted, and only find out until too late.

Given enough numbers of radars, no terrain is complex enough. And after the OBL raid incident, complacency cannot be excused. The enemy may use stealth helis through this terrain.

There is no such thing as a Stealth Helo. You cannot hide the rotor doppler, no matter what RAP/RAM curvatures you apply.

 

[CriticalThought]

There is no such thing as a Stealth Helo. You cannot hide the rotor doppler, no matter what RAP/RAM curvatures you apply.

Sir, our nation has always suffered when we decided something cannot be done. The enemy uses that exact same avenue to hurt us. People on the internet have tried to extrapolate from the OBL raid

https://theaviationist.com/2016/05/...at-exposed-the-stealth-black-hawk-helicopter/

How would I solve the noise problem? I know there is such a thing as anechoic chambers. They work by reflecting sound from angled surfaces such that it cancels. The material is also absorbent. Knowing this, I would fly UAVs near the blades to create a similar effect.

This is a simple, wild idea. The Americans are masters of taking wild ideas and implementing them in reality. And they are also masters at keeping it hidden. They are also masters at spreading misinformation about what is possible or not. This is why our military needs to pursue wild ideas through experimentation, keep up to date with latest research, so it knows what is possible in the world and what isn't.

 

[Talon]

We can at least have AWACS coverage during hostilities.

Instead of radsr coverage, I should have said sensor network. This includes, for example, passive radar sensors and IR sensors.

To navigate such terrain, the enemy may use millimetre wave radar. So we should at least have passive sensing for that. Now combine that with acoustic, and wind sensors. Both effects should get amplified.

Finally, we should see radar network like a spider's web. Using reflections from the terrain, EM waves can be kept within the valleys. Enemies looking for gaps in radar coverage will be attracted, and only find out until too late.

Given enough numbers of radars, no terrain is complex enough. And after the OBL raid incident, complacency cannot be excused. The enemy may use stealth helis through this terrain.

You have gone off topic and brought stuff and technology into play that our theater doesn't has.