'This is cruelty': Survivors of Indian Army shelling on passenger bus recall frightening encounter

[Zibago]

Unfortunately most of us Kashmiris living in Punjab have been shamefully neglectful of our ancestral culture and true ethnic identity. Most real Kashmiris in Pakistan have the nerve to call themselves 'Punjabi'. Whilst Mirpuris steal our ethnic identity and the Punjabis of Azad Kashmir call themselves 'Kashmiri'. What a joke.

What about Mirpuris who have vale background?

 

[cmpk]

Unfortunately most of us Kashmiris living in Punjab have been shamefully neglectful of our ancestral culture and true ethnic identity. Most real Kashmiris in Pakistan have the nerve to call themselves 'Punjabi'. Whilst Mirpuris steal our ethnic identity and the Punjabis of Azad Kashmir call themselves 'Kashmiri'. What a joke.

culture/human evolve over the years, now when you look around Pakistan, it is fast becoming a modern country - effects of globalization. Nothing to do with neglect.

As for Kashmiri culture, well we still have hints of it. Just look at our food.

What some people need to understand (mostly affiliated with political groups) is the fact that Kashmir issue is more than just a issue of water. Mostly people from central/upper Punjab have this mentality, they really need to educate themselves.

 

[T-72]

Was your previous id name Barrel-Bomba

no, but I've had a few, even made senior member on one before being perma banhammered.

Yes Azad Kashmir is non-Kashmiri. There is however a large ethnic Kashmiri community which lives in Punjab. Our ancestors migrated during Dogra rule. We may no longer speak Kashmiri but we are still ethnically Kashmiri. Blood does not change (unless you mix with someone else and produce a mixed child).

If you don't share the language then the differences are vast. The 2 Kashmirs have evolved differently since partition/ 48 war, not just in your case where your ancestors migrated down to the plains of Punjab but all throughout Pak (azad) Kashmir, there are very few pockets (negligible, minuscule, not even in numbers big enough to make statistics of) in your Azad region where people speak the native tongue.

Some say the Pak govts at the time messed up the demographics for fear of a true plebiscite (all UN resolution conditions met, statewide in undivided J&K), too late for that now, though.

Unfortunately most of us Kashmiris living in Punjab have been shamefully neglectful of our ancestral culture and true ethnic identity. Most real Kashmiris in Pakistan have the nerve to call themselves 'Punjabi'. Whilst Mirpuris steal our ethnic identity and the Punjabis of Azad Kashmir call themselves 'Kashmiri'. What a joke.

ok, I generally don't troll anymore but if I did, I'd make a joke about you being ethnically Indian and Hindu

Hindi/Hindu/Hind as a geographical/cultural, not religious term, like how people from the middle east (arab/turk etc) refer to Indians as.

and let's be honest, Kashmir is not a solvable problem, not in this era of wmds anyway, I still maintain that both sides should be happy with their slice of the pie and make it a damn international border and be done with it already. Leave our side alone, there is no massive oppression or genocide or any of that nonsense they lie about and let's move forward.

As the last generation of directly partition affected folk die off, so should the hate, which is not to say that those guys are responsible for the hate, a lot of them are some of the wisest people (having suffered the consequences of war and strife)

 

[The Eagle]

Killing civilians is not new by IA as IoK has lost many of beloved for nothing but hunted as they were protesting against illegal occupation by IA and across the border, IA has no different stance or thought for civilians.

 

[Apprentice]

culture/human evolve over the years, now when you look around Pakistan, it is fast becoming a modern country - effects of globalization. Nothing to do with neglect.

As for Kashmiri culture, well we still have hints of it. Just look at our food.

What some people need to understand (mostly affiliated with political groups) is the fact that Kashmir issue is more than just a issue of water. Mostly people from central/upper Punjab have this mentality, they really need to educate themselves.

What hints of Kashmiri culture do youu have in your food?

no, but I've had a few, even made senior member on one before being perma banhammered.


If you don't share the language then the differences are vast. The 2 Kashmirs have evolved differently since partition/ 48 war, not just in your case where your ancestors migrated down to the plains of Punjab but all throughout Pak (azad) Kashmir, there are very few pockets (negligible, minuscule, not even in numbers big enough to make statistics of) in your Azad region where people speak the native tongue.

Some say the Pak govts at the time messed up the demographics for fear of a true plebiscite (all UN resolution conditions met, statewide in undivided J&K), too late for that now, though.


ok, I generally don't troll anymore but if I did, I'd make a joke about you being ethnically Indian and Hindu

Hindi/Hindu/Hind as a geographical/cultural, not religious term, like how people from the middle east (arab/turk etc) refer to Indians as.

and let's be honest, Kashmir is not a solvable problem, not in this era of wmds anyway, I still maintain that both sides should be happy with their slice of the pie and make it a damn international border and be done with it already. Leave our side alone, there is no massive oppression or genocide or any of that nonsense they lie about and let's move forward.

As the last generation of directly partition affected folk die off, so should the hate, which is not to say that those guys are responsible for the hate, a lot of them are some of the wisest people (having suffered the consequences of war and strife)

Indian is not an ethnicity. My ancestors were Kashmiri Pandits. And they abandoned Hinduism, Alhamdulillah.

Kashmir is not a piece of land that can be bartered. Its a land with a proud people. You can't enforce a Hindu majority state over a Muslim majority population.

Sir Owen Dixon realised the problem. Thats why he suggested that India keep the areas where the local population was pro-India (i.e Jammu and Ladakh) and Pakistan keep the areas where the population was pro-Pakistan (i.e. Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan). And then the remaining Kashmir Valley would have a plebiscite to determine what the population there wanted.

Even today (Hindu dominated) Jammu, (Buddhist dominated) Ladakh, Gilgit-Baltistan and Azad Kashmir are happy with the countries ruling them respectively. However the crux of the conflict has never been addressed (i.e. the Muslim majority Valley). In area its only 15% of the entire J&K under Indian control. However it houses most of the Sunni Muslim population (which is foercely anti-Indian). India can do without it. Either give it to Pakistan or let it become independent. Its such a small area (only 15,000 km^2). Giving it up will be no loss to India.

Pakistan and China had unfriendly relations during the 50s. However, after Pakistan ceded Shaksgam Valley to China the two countries relations became good. And both are allies today with a close relationship.

If Pakistan can cede Shaksgam Valley for better relations, India should also be able to cede Kashmir Valley to Pakistan/Kashmiris.

What about Mirpuris who have vale background?

Then they are ethnic Kashmiris.

However, most Mirpuri claimants to Kashmiri identity are 10x more Punjabi than they can ever be Kashmiri. Most ppl in Azad Kashmir are from the same tribes and ethnicities in northern Punjab.

 

[Hyde]

Killing civilians is not new by IA as IoK has lost many of beloved for nothing but hunted as they were protesting against illegal occupation by IA and across the border, IA has no different stance or thought for civilians.

If you shoot pellets at 1 yr old baby in a state that you boastfully call your integral part then will you hesitate to bomb a civilian bus and ambulance and specially when it is on other side of border?

One could easily read these lines from original report

"One Jawed Sultan said, "We did not have the slightest expectation that something like this could happen. When the firing started, we were shocked. I received bullets in my leg and I am still feeling frightened."

Neelum valley is a town that has seen quite some indian shelling in the past, as in some areas indian posts are located at higher points and even if terrain wise superiority is not enjoyed by indian forces they still bomb and shell civilians. And generally the local population has become a bit hardened to due to the shelling and know where to expect what.

So it is not a first for the locals to be targetted. But when a civilian himself says we were not expecting the shelling, it was a Shock for us, then it clearly suggests the route has no Pakistani army posts located there and no travel risks attached.

It clearly shows indian forces took straight up target of bus and then ambulance ; all on purpose.

 

[The Eagle]

So it is not a first for the locals to be targetted. But when a civilian himself says we were not expecting the shelling, it was a Shock for us, then it clearly suggests the route has no Pakistani army posts located there and no travel risks attached.

It clearly shows indian forces took straight up target of bus and then ambulance ; all on purpose.

Exactly, it was a deliberate attempt made under desperation for merely public consumption by portraying the same as some kind of Military Target being hit through Media as the deluded people will easily buy the same in India.

It is true that PA do not construct any post near civilian populace due to the same reason, as you defined pretty well, to avoid such losses of civilian because of them but still IA hitting them as couldn't target PA posts or in other words, cannot score the count as what they need to represent before public.

Such tactics by attacking the civilians is being used as a diversion and as a decoy as well so that once the rescue work is carried by PA, they can target the same again but results are contrary to what they plans by getting a perfect retaliation.

Irony is, they claim such kills as PA's losses which is a sad state of moral/competence that cannot differentiate between a civilian or soldier/military target.

 

[jahangeer yousaf]

Unfortunately most of us Kashmiris living in Punjab have been shamefully neglectful of our ancestral culture and true ethnic identity. Most real Kashmiris in Pakistan have the nerve to call themselves 'Punjabi'. Whilst Mirpuris steal our ethnic identity and the Punjabis of Azad Kashmir call themselves 'Kashmiri'. What a joke.

and guess what you are the galileo of theories, and guess what you ain`t the only one with opinion here.