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Think Tank: China Beats U.S. in Simulated Taiwan Air War

mainland is already holding the economic lifeline of taiwan,i would rather to see the peaceful reunification than war even if it means KMT will be back,this stupid civil war should've end 60 years ago if it wasn't a bit** country behind a coward
 
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China can annihilate Taiwan if she chooses to do so– but she cannot occupy Taiwan, 200 miles of ocean will make it a treacherous task. The first and subsequent waves of a mere 31,000 troops will be sitting ducks for entrenched forces defending the island.
I doubt the US will intervene, since we do not have the stomach for another war and that too with China (our chief creditor :china:) in their very own backyard.


Yes China can annihilate Taiwan, but what would China gain from such an action? Very little in fact...

Today's China can also annihilate South Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, Japan and other countries it has and/or had hostilities with, with conventional or nuclear means but this doesn't mean the US has to intervene in all these countries and provide them a shield...

I think the 'fear mongering' that is done by some parties is disingenuous and is a false alarm. They act as if China is going to wipe Taiwan off the map...I don't see any bit of data/info or trajectory that would truly support such a notion on China's behalf.


China and Taiwan can both live together in a mutually beneficial relationship, (the two don't really have any deep-rooted animosity or hatred for one another at least people to people level...) perhaps this can happen without US involvement or interference.
 
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The PRC could stop all of this game playing by negotiating a friendship treaty with the Taiwanese people. Obviously the PRC could wipe out Taiwan in a few seconds if it wanted to. But, presumably there is enough moral restraint on the part of PRC leaders to not do that. Why not take it a step further and make peace with Taiwan? Why not accept Taiwanese autonomy in some form of federation with the PRC and remove any grounds for the US to feel it must "protect" Taiwan?

f***ing your "protect" Taiwan theory,Taiwan is just a important chessman for your "First Island Chain"
 
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f***ing your "protect" Taiwan theory,Taiwan is just a important chessman for your "First Island Chain"



Hey please refrain from profanity it's unnecessary and counter-productive to your argument. Not to mention we have respectful members reading these post and it's not good to use this language. I understand your frustration and this is a sensitive issue for many Chinese but please refrain from profanity...Thanks


Back to the topic.

I do agree with you that, the United States is not going to great diplomatic, political, military, and international lengths simply because it cares about the Taiwanese people and their freedom and democracy. This is completely naive to even think that.

There is an international strategic game being played in Eastern Asia, and China, North Korea, South Korea, Russia, US, Japan, Taiwan are all involved. Obviously the the foreign policy leaders in the US want to use Taiwan as their strategic pawn, as a naval base, military, and intelligence place to monitor East Asia.

East Asia is an important part of the World, and the United States wants to demonstrate it's dominance in the region, especially after it's military rule ended in the Philippines (1898-1935). Originally the Philippines served as an excellent strategic foothold for the US and it's ambitions in East Asia, but now that is gone (but not completely) the US finds itself as the humble shield and protector of Taiwan...
 
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Yes China can annihilate Taiwan, but what would China gain from such an action? Very little in fact...
If the PRC feels there is nothing to gain from getting absolute control of Taiwan, then why not just simply acknowledge formal independence from Taiwan? Face it, Taiwan is ALREADY independent in everything else, from the Taiwanese having their own foreign policies to their own athletes at the Olympics. Does the US allow Californians their own athletes at the Olympics?

Today's China can also annihilate South Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, Japan and other countries it has and/or had hostilities with, with conventional or nuclear means but this doesn't mean the US has to intervene in all these countries and provide them a shield...
Except for Viet Nam, US shield is what deterred communist China from all those countries listed.
 
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If the PRC feels there is nothing to gain from getting absolute control of Taiwan, then why not just simply acknowledge formal independence from Taiwan? Face it, Taiwan is ALREADY independent in everything else, from the Taiwanese having their own foreign policies to their own athletes at the Olympics. Does the US allow Californians their own athletes at the Olympics?

Except for Viet Nam, US shield is what deterred communist China from all those countries listed.


"Except for Viet Nam, US shield is what deterred communist China from all those countries listed."

Poor historical reference and example, I did say "Today's China". Besides, US shield did not deter China at all in Vietnam they actively supported the Communist in Vietnam during the Vietnamese war, and eventually gave you a humiliating political defeat, and forced you to withdraw from Vietnam. Nor was it China's intention to "annihilate" which is what we are talking about, Vietnam. In fact it is you who eventually where deterred from Vietnam...


If the PRC feels there is nothing to gain from getting absolute control of Taiwan, then why not just simply acknowledge formal independence from Taiwan? Face it

The problem is you, American. The problem is your country trying to get involved in a strategic nation 150-200 miles away from Chinese mainland shores. The problem is you trying to attain a strategic foothold in East Asia via Taiwan. The problem is your nation pursuing it's East Asian Geo-Political ambitions to counter Chinese rising power.


Taiwan is not a threat to China without US involvement and support, and that is what you must understand. If the Chinese were to announce they recognize Taiwanese independence it would be your problematic nation rushing into Taiwan and jeopardizing Chinese regional security and influence.

With US involvement Taiwan independence comes at the expense of Chinese regional security and influence, WITHOUT US involvement Taiwan independence can be a fruitful development that can mutually benefit China and Taiwan.


That is the problem, so no you "Face it!"
 
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Poor historical reference and example, I did say "Today's China". Besides, US shield did not deter China at all in Vietnam they actively supported the Communist in Vietnam during the Vietnamese war, and eventually gave you a humiliating political defeat, and forced you to withdraw from Vietnam. Nor was it China's intention to "annihilate" which is what we are talking about, Vietnam. In fact it is you who eventually where deterred from Vietnam...
There are two paths to assimilate a country: political consensus or military conquest. Even after the US withdrawal from Viet Nam, the Vietnamese did not consent to being a territory to China. That said...It was the threat of American military involvement that deterred China from militarily conquering the rest of Asia after Vietnam. Despite US withdrawal, the Soviets and the Chinese learned that the Vietnam War was costly to them in their own ways, hence the feared 'domino theory' did not came to pass, that they knew that withdrawal from Vietnam was no guarantee from further military involvement by the US.

The problem is you, American. The problem is your country trying to get involved in a strategic nation 150-200 miles away from Chinese mainland shores. The problem is you trying to attain a strategic foothold in East Asia via Taiwan. The problem is your nation pursuing it's East Asian Geo-Political ambitions to counter Chinese rising power.
There is no 'problem' and there is no 'trying'. We are there and we have allies. China stands alone and no, North Korea does not matter.

Taiwan is not a threat to China without US involvement and support, and that is what you must understand. If the Chinese were to announce they recognize Taiwanese independence it would be your problematic nation rushing into Taiwan and jeopardizing Chinese regional security and influence.
That is utterly absurd. Why should we 'threaten' China if Taiwan is formally recognized as an independent state? Taiwanese independence from China is what compelled US to be there in the first place with military emphasis. Without the military threat to Taiwanese independence, economic will be the primary justification for US to be involved with Taiwan. You are not making sense.

With US involvement Taiwan independence comes at the expense of Chinese regional security and influence, WITHOUT US involvement Taiwan independence can be a fruitful development that can mutually benefit China and Taiwan.

That is the problem, so no you "Face it!"
You must be living in an alternate universe. Taiwan is a 'fruitful development' TO THE REST OF THE WORLD so why should Taiwan placed China higher in priority, other than as a military threat to Taiwan's de facto independence?
 
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mainland is already holding the economic lifeline of taiwan,
More like the other way around. Taiwan was an economic success even before the Taiwanese got involved in mainland China. So even if the PRC rip everything on the mainland away from Taiwanese owners, Taiwan will recover.

i would rather to see the peaceful reunification than war even if it means KMT will be back,this stupid civil war should've end 60 years ago if it wasn't a bit** country behind a coward
Why? The PRC ruled mainland all this time? What is the point of gunning for an island that has been de facto independent for over fifty years? For US, Puerto Rico was a territory, then we gave the 'Ricans a chance to vote for themselves and they chose to remain with US, whereas the PI wanted US out so we left. So why not let the Taiwanese go their own way?
 
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If the PRC feels there is nothing to gain from getting absolute control of Taiwan, then why not just simply acknowledge formal independence from Taiwan? Face it, Taiwan is ALREADY independent in everything else, from the Taiwanese having their own foreign policies to their own athletes at the Olympics. Does the US allow Californians their own athletes at the Olympics?

Except for Viet Nam, US shield is what deterred communist China from all those countries listed.


You are completely wrong, "Taiwan"s official name is Republic of China, the official map of ROC includes both mainland China and Taiwan island. You are not familiar with the history of Chinese Civil War. The relationship between mainland China and Taiwan is one of the most complicated in world history.

Hongkong SAR also has its own team at Olympics, and there is no such team called "Taiwan", there is only "Chinese Taipei". BTW, how about American Samoa, Guam? they sent teams too, aren't they American territory?

I would love to accept the fact that Taiwan becomes the second "Hongkong SAR", we will see.
 
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More like the other way around. Taiwan was an economic success even before the Taiwanese got involved in mainland China. So even if the PRC rip everything on the mainland away from Taiwanese owners, Taiwan will recover.


Why? The PRC ruled mainland all this time? What is the point of gunning for an island that has been de facto independent for over fifty years? For US, Puerto Rico was a territory, then we gave the 'Ricans a chance to vote for themselves and they chose to remain with US, whereas the PI wanted US out so we left. So why not let the Taiwanese go their own way?


Again, not everything you did in lines with Chinese culture and history. Your culture put democracy and freedom over sovereign rights, unfortunately it's the other way around in China. And Chinese survived a history of 5,000 years, we are not going to change the way we think. Learn some different cultures and values. Even Obama said he is not going to spread American value anymore.

BTW, not everybody in Taiwan wants independence, most people want to keep what we have right now, they don't want a change. That's why KMT got elected last year.
 
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You are completely wrong, "Taiwan"s official name is Republic of China, the official map of ROC includes both mainland China and Taiwan island. You are not familiar with the history of Chinese Civil War. The relationship between mainland China and Taiwan is one of the most complicated in world history.
Give me a break. The island's name is Taiwan and it is governed by the Republic of China. But there is nothing wrong with, for ease of discussion, using Taiwan. If I want to be as pedantic, I could throw a hissy fit everytime someone use the word 'American' to denote a US citizen. Just in case you do not know, the word 'America' is supposed to include the northern and southern parts.

Hongkong SAR also has its own team at Olympics, and there is no such team called "Taiwan", there is only "Chinese Taipei". BTW, how about American Samoa, Guam? they sent teams too, aren't they American territory?

I would love to accept the fact that Taiwan becomes the second "Hongkong SAR", we will see.
You are confused. None of them are violently opposing their territorial status. Add Puerto Rico to list. For any of these who possess a distinct culture and is not a US...er...I mean...an American state, if they can raise enough money to field their own Olympic team and if the USOC have no objections, they can represent themselves at the Olympics. My point is that since Taiwan...oh...excuse me...the ROC fielded its own Olympics team and so far has no desire to be unified with mainland China and if the PRC feels there is nothing to gain in militarily conquering Taiwan, then why not let the Taiwanese go their own way?

---------- Post added at 06:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 PM ----------

Again, not everything you did in lines with Chinese culture and history. Your culture put democracy and freedom over sovereign rights, unfortunately it's the other way around in China. And Chinese survived a history of 5,000 years, we are not going to change the way we think. Learn some different cultures and values. Even Obama said he is not going to spread American value anymore.

BTW, not everybody in Taiwan wants independence, most people want to keep what we have right now, they don't want a change. That's why KMT got elected last year.
Becareful before you make that comment to someone.
 
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Give me a break. The island's name is Taiwan and it is governed by the Republic of China. But there is nothing wrong with, for ease of discussion, using Taiwan. If I want to be as pedantic, I could throw a hissy fit everytime someone use the word 'American' to denote a US citizen. Just in case you do not know, the word 'America' is supposed to include the northern and southern parts.


You are confused. None of them are violently opposing their territorial status. Add Puerto Rico to list. For any of these who possess a distinct culture and is not a US...er...I mean...an American state, if they can raise enough money to field their own Olympic team and if the USOC have no objections, they can represent themselves at the Olympics. My point is that since Taiwan...oh...excuse me...the ROC fielded its own Olympics team and so far has no desire to be unified with mainland China and if the PRC feels there is nothing to gain in militarily conquering Taiwan, then why not let the Taiwanese go their own way?

---------- Post added at 06:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 PM ----------


Becareful before you make that comment to someone.

The point I'm trying to make is sending a team to Olympics does not make it an independent country, u agree with me on that point.

Again, as u can see I live in Canada and I appreciate western value of democracy and freedom. But when it comes to sovereign rights, everything, YES I SAID EVERYTHING can be sacrificed IMO (and most Chinese believe that too). A lot of people in the west do not understand this different value.
 
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The point I'm trying to make is sending a team to Olympics does not make it an independent country, u agree with me on that point.
The act by itself does not but what it does indicate is autonomy. In the case of Taiwan...oh...pardonez moi...the Republic of China, that autonomy was not granted but asserted. The US government granted the governments of US territories permissions to represent themselves at the Olympics, a global platform. For the RoC, the PRC was never consulted. The world does take notice of the significance of the difference. That and the fact that the RoC has a military whose mission is to defend the island against a possible PRC invasion. Neither Guam nor Puerto Rico has any such plans against the US. In 1993 the 'Ricans voted to remain a US territory. No one held any guns to the 'Ricans to compel them to vote that way. They assessed the pros and cons, did a cost/benefit analysis and found it was better in many ways to remain a US territory. For the Taiwanese, no doubt they performed similar analysis.

Again, as u can see I live in Canada and I appreciate western value of democracy and freedom. But when it comes to sovereign rights, everything, YES I SAID EVERYTHING can be sacrificed IMO (and most Chinese believe that too). A lot of people in the west do not understand this different value.
A lot of Americans and I wager Canadians as well do not understand how a government could institute the cruel one-child policy upon a culture that value males grossly over females that resulted in unknown abortions and killing of baby girls.
 
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The act by itself does not but what it does indicate is autonomy. In the case of Taiwan...oh...pardonez moi...the Republic of China, that autonomy was not granted but asserted. The US government granted the governments of US territories permissions to represent themselves at the Olympics, a global platform. For the RoC, the PRC was never consulted. The world does take notice of the significance of the difference. That and the fact that the RoC has a military whose mission is to defend the island against a possible PRC invasion. Neither Guam nor Puerto Rico has any such plans against the US. In 1993 the 'Ricans voted to remain a US territory. No one held any guns to the 'Ricans to compel them to vote that way. They assessed the pros and cons, did a cost/benefit analysis and found it was better in many ways to remain a US territory. For the Taiwanese, no doubt they performed similar analysis.

A lot of Americans and I wager Canadians as well do not understand how a government could institute the cruel one-child policy upon a culture that value males grossly over females that resulted in unknown abortions and killing of baby girls.

You are speaking out of your arse! Do you know that there are good estimates on the number of abortions, and the preference of male over female fetuses is not as large as portrayed in Western-zio Media?

PLEASE, dude go to China and see for yourself. In nature, humans tend to have more baby boys than girls -- that's probably the effect of thousands of years of evolution. But females tend to outlive their male counter parts. That's just nature. You see this sex-ratio disparity in ALL human populations, be they black, white, yellow, brown, orange, red, green :) So if you are going to use male-to-female ratios you need to factor this in.

Now, refrain from speaking out of your arse when you don't understand the ground reality! :cheers:
 
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You are speaking out of your arse! Do you know that there are good estimates on the number of abortions, and the preference of male over female fetuses is not as large as portrayed in Western-zio Media?

PLEASE, dude go to China and see for yourself. In nature, humans tend to have more baby boys than girls -- that's probably the effect of thousands of years of evolution. But females tend to outlive their male counter parts. That's just nature. You see this sex-ratio disparity in ALL human populations, be they black, white, yellow, brown, orange, red, green :) So if you are going to use male-to-female ratios you need to factor this in.

Now, refrain from speaking out of your arse when you don't understand the ground reality! :cheers:

China's abortion rate soars
"Sex-selection" also plays a significant factor in China's high abortion rate, although officials seldom discuss it.

China's one-child policy and its penchant for boys has led to what some feminist groups call "gendercide," with countless Chinese women selectively aborting female fetuses.

According to a study published in the British Medical Journal last spring, based on a 2005 "mini census," there are 32 million more boys than girls in China
Did not take me long to find that...er...Western-zio media Canadian source.

'Western-zio'...How pathetic.
 
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