Think tank: 92% of Afghans never heard of 9/11

[gambit]

You do not answer my question at all. The United Nation DID NOT authorized US and British onslaught over Afghanistan on October 7th 2001. No body authorized Al-Qaeda to attack US soil and other US interest overseas as well. So the US and British acted just like the Al-Qaeda.

Absolutely the UN made such authorization. Here...

NATO Basict Text: UN Charter Art. 51

Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations

Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain inter- national peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

The US was free to act based upon the UN Charter itself. No need for formal 'authorization'.

Yeah.. you may call it a right to reject an offer. I know the answer would be like this. Because, it is the US who still don't have the hard evidence about the perpetrators...

It's been 9 years, so where is the hard evidence that linking Osama to the 9/11?

Osama bin Laden is the moral leadership of al-Qaeda. He set policies, locally and globally, for any al-Qaeda affiliates. He does not need to be actively involved in the planning of the 9/11 attack.

Hmm... Thanks for the correction.

Anyway, when did the definition got broadened?

The definition of war did not get 'broadened' by anyone. War is a state of mind. Technically speaking, the two Koreas are still at war. Their states of minds are hostility to each other. But for now they are not in a state of 'armed conflict'. We use the term 'war' loosely.

 

[Ahmad]

last 200 IS your entire history
you got independence in 1748

@ the Indian that says AFG currently has a centralized govt.

My answer: LOL
you call this a centralized govt? Without the Americans and the coalition the Taliban would have control of the country in no time. Plus, a centralized govt has control of every square inch of the country. Can you say that about the current Afghan regime?

You love fabrication, dont you?

 

[Abii]

You love fabrication, dont you?

sorry bro but I've always been under the impression that Afghanistan simply got independence in 1748.

wasn't AFG part of Iran before that?

 

[Ahmad]

sorry bro but I've always been under the impression that Afghanistan simply got independence in 1748.

wasn't AFG part of Iran before that?

brother, it depends on which time of the history we are talking about!! Yes, Ariana(today afghanistan) was part of great persian empire, after the disintegration of persian empire and the murder of Yzdgurd Sowom(سو&#1605--->(Sasani), the local strongmen came to power, for sometime they were under the Abasi Khilafat, then they expeled the arabs under the leadership of Abu Muslim Khorasani, the strong families Tahiris, Safaris of Nimroz, and most of all the Samani empire and then Ghaznavis came to power and ruled khorasan for very long time, the very briliant part of our history lie in those eras, their gov controlled central asia, iran, khorasan and parts of eastern balouchistan, mahoud even invaded india. since all the above people were tajiks(persians), our pakistani brothers dont know much about them, the history of Khorasan and Persia was so interlinked that you cant separate them. i also need to mention that the Savavids once again succesdded to capture big parts of khorasan upto Qandahar, then they lost it after some time.

 

[gambit]

What a sorry and curious experience

I do not see it as an experience to regret. I see it as educational and how it shattered just about all the propaganda that came out of the ME.

- in your experience or opinion, were your experiences the norm or were your experiences exceptional, not the norm? Anyway, it does go to explaining some of your more emotional positions.

To be held in contempt simply because we are Americans? Very much the norm.

Why not - I would really want to read some more thought in your response - Why not? Why do others not have the right to extract from you what you think you have the right to extract fro them?

It is curious that you avoid the question as to what have we done to the Taliban that earned US their enmity that resulted in the attack on US on Sept 11, 2001.

For instance, in the Turkey and Eagles thread, I posted a quote from, that exceptional-ism is a Cultural Belief, as strong in Israel as in the US, no doubt - but as a first generation, how is it that you have internalized such a conception of self in relation to others? I'm genuinely interest to understand.

Why is that unusual? I see the muslims exults whenever a convert, especially if the convert is a woman, act as if he/she has been a muslim all his/her life, to the point of adopting an Arabic name, hate Jews and America. Quite an internalization, no?

Why is that so unusual than from this man...

Wounded Marine from Daly City gets citizenship / Wounded Daly City Marine gets American citizenship - SFGate

April 12, 2003|By Henry K. Lee, Chronicle Staff Writer

Marine Lance Cpl. O.J. Santa Maria of Daly City, hooked up to an intravenous blood transfusion, stood up despite a painfully wounded shoulder Friday and was sworn in as a citizen.

Halfway through the ceremony observed by President Bush at a military hospital outside Washington, D.C., Santa Maria broke down and sobbed.

Let me guess, enthusiasm for US citizenship is to be held in contempt while conversion to Islam is not?

Do we, indeed, history not a strong suite of your I take it

Not only do I read history, I experienced some of it during my time in the ME. The muslims' hatred for the Jews and Israel has nothing to do with the Israelis-Palestinians conflict. Your hatred is mandated by your religion.

anyway, are you suggesting US will consider giving up the Israeli to the likes of Muslims who want to do a holocaust on them? what kind of thing would prevail upon you to do that, I mean the US, to do that? What would Us want for selling out the Israeli?

I really do look forward to your post as I do want to understand.

I do not claim to speak on behalf of the US government regarding foreign policies. But it is common sense that negotiations are not one-way affairs. If you want the US to cease support for Israel for a new 'Final Solution' it is only fair that you give US something at least of equal value. Israel is very valuable to US in more ways than just moral principles.

 

[muse]

It is curious that you avoid the question as to what have we done to the Taliban that earned US their enmity that resulted in the attack on US on Sept 11, 2001.

Indeed, primarily I suppose because the Talib did not attack the US. That you need to make arguments so patently false, well, if you had a rough time in the middle east, I do wonder if judging by your posts, whether you did not bring it upon yourself.

Your hatred is mandated by your religion

You now claim to know my religion and my feelings better than I do - I offer to engage you, you are not in command of the subject matter and respond by insulting me and my religious convictions - and you had a rough time in the middle east, imagine that.

Israel is very valuable to US in more ways than just moral principles.

I'm delighted that you took the issue of moral principles as a worth discussing - Do not "moral principles extend to all, or are they they preserve of the "exceptional"? After all, does not the US policy allow for moral principles to extend to all?

You say that you were hated simply because you were from the US - it might be emotionally satisfying for you to seek your experience in this light, but is this the only light to see it in? What did the local see in you? BTW, are you Asian born? ever lived or been to school in Asia? And I don't mean to offer offense but was it your experience that as an Asian, the local Middle Eastern types did not afford you "white" person deference? Your experience is fascinating, I don't know of anyone else who had your experience.

 

[gambit]

Indeed, primarily I suppose because the Talib did not attack the US. That you need to make arguments so patently false, well, if you had a rough time in the middle east, I do wonder if judging by your posts, whether you did not bring it upon yourself.

Please see post 32. You need to point out, not just to me, but to the readership where my argument based upon common sense is 'false'.

You now claim to know my religion and my feelings better than I do - I offer to engage you, you are not in command of the subject matter and respond by insulting me and my religious convictions - and you had a rough time in the middle east, imagine that.

Like it or not, a religion IS whatever its adherents DOES. Allah did not come to Earth and revealed himself for all the peoples on all the continents to see and to settle the matter for all time as to which is the 'true' religion. Islam is no different a religion than Christianity on the buffet table of religions. That said...I do not claim to know your religion better than you but only that I do have the right to an opinion and a judgment as to what Islam 'is' based upon my current observation of its believers. That is not an insult. If I had a 'rough' time in the ME, and it was not 'rough' as you would like to believe, that experience did not came from Christians but from muslims.

I'm delighted that you took the issue of moral principles as a worth discussing - Do not "moral principles extend to all, or are they they preserve of the "exceptional"? After all, does not the US policy allow for moral principles to extend to all?

Of course they extend to all. No one live his/he life in an intellectual and moral vacuum. No country does either, right? Putting the world under the banner of Islam, by force if necessary, can be a moral conviction. Erasing Israel off the map and scatter the Jews, preferably via their ashes, can be a moral conviction. Resisting Christian values incursions into muslim lands can be a moral conviction.

You say that you were hated simply because you were from the US - it might be emotionally satisfying for you to seek your experience in this light,...

I did not seek that experience. It was given to me.

...but is this the only light to see it in?

What choice do I have? I was in a muslim dominated region. I had to obey certain rules, written and unwritten.

What did the local see in you?

Someone who is inferior.

BTW, are you Asian born? ever lived or been to school in Asia?

Yes to both.

And I don't mean to offer offense but was it your experience that as an Asian, the local Middle Eastern types did not afford you "white" person deference? Your experience is fascinating, I don't know of anyone else who had your experience.

Are you insinuating that I was looking for reverential treatment just because I was an American? Far from it, friend. And the current news about how imported Asian workers are abused by the Arabs should be correlative enough to my own experience. No...I was not abused. But it did not take the deductive ability of Sherlock Holmes to see the contempt in the Saudis' eyes.

 

[mustang]

 

[saleen_s7]

Please see post 32. You need to point out, not just to me, but to the readership where my argument based upon common sense is 'false'.


Like it or not, a religion IS whatever its adherents DOES. Allah did not come to Earth and revealed himself for all the peoples on all the continents to see and to settle the matter for all time as to which is the 'true' religion. Islam is no different a religion than Christianity on the buffet table of religions. That said...I do not claim to know your religion better than you but only that I do have the right to an opinion and a judgment as to what Islam 'is' based upon my current observation of its believers. That is not an insult. If I had a 'rough' time in the ME, and it was not 'rough' as you would like to believe, that experience did not came from Christians but from muslims.


Of course they extend to all. No one live his/he life in an intellectual and moral vacuum. No country does either, right? Putting the world under the banner of Islam, by force if necessary, can be a moral conviction. Erasing Israel off the map and scatter the Jews, preferably via their ashes, can be a moral conviction. Resisting Christian values incursions into muslim lands can be a moral conviction.


I did not seek that experience. It was given to me.


What choice do I have? I was in a muslim dominated region. I had to obey certain rules, written and unwritten.


Someone who is inferior.


Yes to both.


Are you insinuating that I was looking for reverential treatment just because I was an American? Far from it, friend. And the current news about how imported Asian workers are abused by the Arabs should be correlative enough to my own experience. No...I was not abused. But it did not take the deductive ability of Sherlock Holmes to see the contempt in the Saudis' eyes.

To me, it seems you are concluding based on effects rather than the actual causes. I am really sorry about your experience in the Middle East but to indulge into such ideologies based on personal experience does not justify its basis. The notion in the west that Islam wants to wipe out Israel is not a moral conviction as their are many more passages and Surah's which talk positively about the jews, but I will not get into that debate as it is futile. I can find just as much evidence of US citizens wanting to wipe out any Islamic nation as you will find Muslims wanting the destruction of jews, but it seems muslims are more accountable. But it was illogical for Taleban to hit the twin tower so people who have no decision making power over the foreign policies, can suffer as to 92% of the talebans who didn't know why they were attacked. Knowing Taleban would hand over Laden, and still pursuing the war is something America should be accountable for. Mind you, the war has increased more terrorism then it has decreased.