What's new

These indicators suggest China's economy is not growing anywhere near 7%

bsruzm

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
May 10, 2015
Messages
5,218
Reaction score
0
Country
Turkey
Location
Turkey
''The true state of China’s economic rebalancing, and indeed it’s overall economic growth rate, continues to be a hot topic of debate across markets.

foxconn-workers.jpg


According to the Chinese government, the economy grew by 6.9% in the 12 months to September with strength in services – led primarily by the financial sector – helping to offset ongoing weakness in the nation’s industrial and construction sectors.

The optimists point to official retail sales figures, growing at the fastest annual pace this year in October, along with recent strength in services PMI readings, as evidence that the economic transition away from industrial, trade and investment led growth to that powered by consumption and services.

On the other side of the ledger, pessimists point to persistent weakness in indicators such as electricity production, imports and exports, industrial production and construction as evidence that the economy is growing far slower than what the government figures currently suggest.

It’s certainly confusing. On one level the economy looks to be growing strongly, following the pattern of other major economies that transitioned from being developing to developed, while at the same time other sectors of the economy point to the increased likelihood of a hard economic landing.

Are the optimists or pessimists correct, or does the answer lie somewhere in between?

Patrick Artus, global chief economist at Natixis Global Asset Management, decided to investigate the anomaly further in an attempt to determine whether or not the economy is really growing as quickly as the government says it is.

Using former reliable growth indicators for China’s economy such as imports, consumption of electricity and investment, Artus notes that there has been a significant decoupling since mid-2014 between the government’s official growth reading and these indicators. Chinese imports have fallen sharply, electricity production has stagnated and investment has slowed down markedly.

“Those who believe Chinese growth has remained vigorous despite this decoupling claim that since China is becoming a service economy, this decoupling is normal,” suggests Artus in a research note released late last week.

“In a service economy, growth no longer drives imports, electricity production or investment.”

china-gdp-breakdown-netaxis.jpg

To test the validity of this argument, Artus investigated the link between GDP growth with imports, consumption of electricity and investment in other OECD economies that are service economies such as the US, UK, eurozone and Japan.

While he found no discernable link between electricity production and GDP growth, Artus notes that there was no such decoupling evident for annual import growth nor investment in other services-dominated OECD nations.

Here’s what he discovered when comparing import growth:

When we compare China to the US, UK, eurozone and Japan for the recent period, we see a major difference: in OECD countries, imports have continued to grow despite the modest growth level.

And for investment growth.

We see that in OECD countries, growth in investment has remained stronger than that in GDP and that it has closely followed GDP growth.

While there are considerable differences between China’s economy compared to other major OECD nations – the stage of economic development just for starters – the evidence uncovered by Artus suggests, in his opinion, that the government is overstating the true growth level of the economy.

“This absence, in most cases, of a decoupling between growth indicators and GDP growth in OECD countries, which are service economies, lends credence to our idea that this decoupling in China cannot be explained by the shift to a service economy, but by the fact that true growth is lower than official, published growth,” wrote Artus.

The view expressed by Artus is similar to that of MFS Investment Management who, in a research note released in September, suggested that economic growth in China is not as robust as the official government figures would have you believe.

“China may not be as dominated by services, but we believe this sector is growing much faster as a share of the economy than it was five to ten years ago. And its contribution to growth is generally much harder to measure,” they wrote.

“As long as China’s GDP accounting continues to focus on the production of countable goods while underestimating uncountable services, GDP measures are likely to be confusing.” Business Insider
 
.
It seems that nobody knows Chinese officials use lower growth rate in 90s..And when economy grows slower,they can use higher rate and make it look steady...
If China officials decide to take many other things into account the growth rate will be okay..
To be honest if they build more subways citizens will live better..It is the simplest solution,or the citizens wont have much money to spend..coz the house/apartment price is high...
 
.
sad times for China. Those innocent people are going to get affected.
 
. .
I'm not an expert, and my questions are not refuting this argument per say, but I would like a few questions answered.

Oil prices is going down, does this impact imports? India relies heavily on importing of oil, and its imports dropped, but its economy is growing, what does that say about imports as gauge?

OEC - India (IND) Exports, Imports, and Trade Partners
Oil by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For everyday items, which I assume is a major growth item, especially for developing countries, China is the undisputed leader in that area of manufacturing. While a country like India is importing more finished products everyday from China, China won't be importing much of that as it is.

Would consumer spending not be a better gauge of Chinese spending growth? Rather than simply export and imports?
China Consumer Spending | 1952-2015 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast

China's anti corruption campaign has hurt the luxury market in a big way, the previous luxury market growth, small in the overall, could be an anomaly and it's simply reverting back to the mean.
 
.
.
.
Who care. And there are many indicators that US GDP is no where near 17 trillions. More likely 5 trillions. EU, possibly 5 trillions, too. One clear indicator is that China automobile market is almost equal to Europe (East and West) and the US, combined.

All economic data have only relative meaning, do not take them too seriously, even GDP or GDP per capita.

Tomorrow, China can declare that because of their rebasing, recalculation, re-anything, their real GDP per capita should be corrected to $20,000 and China's GDP is double that of the US. Who can deny it.
 
Last edited:
.
probably doesn't make too much of a difference. China can afford to grow slower.
 
. .
Turk guys now are really terrified since Europe really starts to fight against Turkish ally ISIS. Imagine those anti-Turkey fighters will no longer suffer from ISIS.
I am more sad that Ottoman empire is no more :(

Ottoman empire 2.0 is in the making by Turkey, but how when the Kurds will have their own land soon.
 
.
Chinese govt is going in right direction changing its export based economy to consumer based one...this slow down is only temporary!!! But I think it cannot hit double digit growth any time soon!!
 
.
All these reminded of a good Chinese saying, that I learnt in a Chinese restaurant:

Guys... No imaginary off-topic and insults, please.
Thread is about Chinese economy, not me or my nationality.
1. China economy not doom yet, in 2015 growth rate higher than most developed/developing nations, and it's still world N.o2 economy.

2. Here's a news from BBC, maybe interesting to read it about Kurds to setup a Kurds country near Turkey border:
Rojava: Syria's Secret Revolution
Is the Middle East's newest country a territory called "Rojava"? Out of the chaos of Syria's civil war, mainly Kurdish leftists have forged a radical, egalitarian, multi-ethnic mini-state run on communal lines. But with ISIS Jihadists attacking them at every opportunity - especially around the beleaguered city of Kobane, how long can this idealistic social experiment last? Our World has gained exclusive access to Rojava, from the frontlines, to the politicians and refugee camps.
 
.
1. China economy not doom yet, in 2015 growth rate higher than most developed/developing nations, and it's still world N.o2 economy.
That's good, stay on topic.
 
.
China is regulating it's economy well. Only thing they need to be wary of are bubbles. Both housing and investment. Other than that, they don't really need very high growth rate now. They're looking to transition smoothly over the next two or three decades into a developed economy.

These doomsday scenario articles are mostly rubbish.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom