There is no future for an 'apartheid Israel'

[500]

This is apartheid:

This is NOT apartheid:

 

[PlanetWarrior]

The Israelis will only relent under severe International pressure like was applied on SOUTH AFRICA.

This pressure is more likely as the sole Israeli supporter, the US, loses its Economic and Military might or decides that Israel is not worth supporting because the cost of this support becomes too much.

Mr we share the most important thing for a Muslim Islam and our culture because of that is pretty much the same only some size and shape of clothes will differ but over all things would be the same and if Israel will not stop it would perish really very soon

There is something called Human Morality.

Much has been said on this forum on the issue of Palestine being a similar subject as apartheid South Africa. Allow me to make a general comparison between the both even though my knowledge about apartheid South Africa is much more indepth than Palestine.

• Apartheid South Africa was a battle between institutionalized segregation adopted by White South Africans against non-White South Africans where the laws and the governance of the then South Africa effectively made the indigenous Black South Africans second class citizens in their own country whilst conferring full priveliges to a minority of South Africans (Whites). Israel from my knowledge does not discriminate against Israeli Arabs. The battle seems to be confined between the Palestinians (who are not regarded as Israeli) and the Israeli establishment and seems to be a battle over land.
• Apartheid South Africa used its military to suppress protests by its Black citizens. It was an ideological racial civil war. It however limited the use of force to soldier and specialist police forces crackdowns against mobs of protestors and intelligence crackdowns and assassinations. Israel uses the full brunt of its military and airforce to conduct war against the Palestinians thus treating them as a hostile neighboring state thus seemingly not recognizing them as citizens of Israel.
  
• Palestine seems to be a complex battle for land. Muslims seem to have hijacked the cause of the Palestinians for the reason that the Palestinians are Muslims. The USA is Israel's unrelenting supporter. To the eyes of the remaining world, the Jewish Israeli state is being hounded by anti-Semitic Muslims who simply want to wipe out the state of Israel for zealous religious reasons. The Muslim middle east is in a mess for many years with in-fighting and different sects vowing to wipe each other out.. Apartheid eventually was recognized since the 1970s as a crime against humanity when Black and a minority of Whites of South Africa joined hands and through a system of logical propaganda exposed that regime for what it was. The White South Africans tried to earn the sympathy of the international Christian world but this failed for two reasons namely that the Christian communities simply denounces their actions as being immoral and the Black population themselves embraced Christianity as their religion. Whilst the USA and the UK initially unreservedly supported the apartheid state for the reason that it was an opponent to the USSR who supported the neighboring Black communist states, the USA and Britain by the late 1970s felt the pressure of the international community and started enforcing sanctions against the apartheid state thus beginning the end of that state. Unlike Palestine, the anti-apartheid groups of South Africa and notably the ANC kept religion and even race out as a factor in their battle against apartheid South Africa and simply made the issue out for what it was, namely a crime against humanity. This was the deciding factor which won them the day.

I quoted three different members of this forum who put together different submissions for the support of the cause of Palestine. Until the Palestinians themselves cannot decide whether their battle is a religious battle of Islam versus Judaism (and Christianity?) or whether it is a battle for resources and land with Israel using an ideology or whether it is simply a morality issue and thus a crime against humanity, they will never earn the global sympathy which the Black South Africans won in their fight against apartheid. That in effect will always remain the focal difference between apartheid South Africa and Israel thus placing Israel on the superior footing against them

 

[A Town]

Ignore him, he's catching troll flue, i gave him a tablet, hopefully he'll catch the memo.

Pakistan and India were never united countries, its a myth and propaganda. Before the colonial rule which itself was based on alliance and subjugation of Princely States, we were divided in fully autonomous or semi autonomous Princely States which were allied to powerful Muslim monarchies. That is how the system operated. India and Pakistan as modern nation states did not exist before 1947, nor 'India' has ever been a 'united' country. This is a map from 1600s before the Pondicherry landings which should put things in perspective.

View attachment 38170

Actually India and Pakistan were united many times under Maurayan, Gupta, Mughal and British rule.

It was a joke!

albeit ill timed, and poorly worded.

But no, India was never a united Nation, After the British left, India had to 'induct' 500 odd princely states.

Even some Indian states were historically comprised of three or more Kingdoms.

You don't even know your own history, please look up who the Maurayan Empire where.

 

[Sam.]

@LeveragedBuyout

mauryan empire

 

[Contrarian]

India and Israel have had growing trade and military relations for 20 years, so it makes a bit more sense on that end. That, and as @Contrarian has pointed out, very often when Pakistan supports something, India feels compelled to oppose it, or in this case, when Pakistan opposes Israel, India supports it.

Our relations with Israel are moving beyond trade and military now.

Israel has been very helpful in Agricultural sector of India and Dairy sector. They are one of the best in water scarce farming techniques and management. And we are learning from them where they specialize.

 

[he-man]

Oh wow,,,,what about 10 other threads predicting the demise of israel by 2022 or something floating around with majority of muslims(not all thankfully) rejoicing at that prospect??

Thats the reson for israel's actions......it knows the moment muslims have the upper hand it will cease to exist.

I don't support the bloodshed but when u are fighting for survival surrounded by enemies u tend to do what jews are doing

 

[Developereo]

My part of the world sees the mixing of religion and politics as necessary,

Actually, the biggest abusers of religion are the Israeli Zionists.

They are the ones who framed this conflict in religious terms in order to
a) milk the Holocaust sympathy card.
b) play the anti-Semitism card
c) brainwash Jews to support Zionism as their religious duty

It's working spectacularly well, since most people around the world have been conditioned from birth not to criticize Jews -- for fear of being labelled anti-Semite.

So Israel, the colonial outpost of the West, can get away with behavior which would not be tolerated if it was done by non-Jews.

I don't support the bloodshed but when u are fighting for survival surrounded by enemies u tend to do what jews are doing

You claim to be against religious fanatics -- Muslim, Hindu, Sikh -- but you don't have the guts and intellectual honesty to criticize Jewish fanatics.

Are you so scared of being called anti-Semite that you can't call a spade a spade: when Jewish religious fanatics colonize a piece of land because God promised it to them?

 

[Contrarian]

It's working spectacularly well, since most people around the world have been conditioned from birth not to criticize Jews -- for fear of being labelled anti-Semite.

How is it any different from Muslims around the world conditioned to hate the Jews from birth? Your holy books call for killing of Jews and hating them. It does not get more blinding than that.

 

[he-man]

Actually, the biggest abusers of religion are the Israeli Zionists.

They are the ones who framed this conflict in religious terms in order to
a) milk the Holocaust sympathy card.
b) play the anti-Semitism card
c) brainwash Jews to support Zionism as their religious duty

It's working spectacularly well, since most people around the world have been conditioned from birth not to criticize Jews -- for fear of being labelled anti-Semite.

So Israel, the colonial outpost of the West, can get away with behavior which would not be tolerated if it was done by non-Jews.



You claim to be against religious fanatics -- Muslim, Hindu, Sikh -- but you don't have the guts and intellectual honesty to criticize Jewish fanatics.

Are you so scared of being called anti-Semite that you can't call a spade a spade: when Jewish religious fanatics colonize a piece of land because God promised it to them?

problem is i like a jew fanatic better 1000 times better than a muslim fanatic,,,jews are not randomly killing people like isis or al-qaeda,,,they are defending themselves plus they are india's partners in defence.

why the hell should i critisize them??

palestenians should have known that killing those 3 children would bring them nothing but destruction but i guess they lack the brains to even think that

 

[Developereo]

problem is i like a jew fanatic better 1000 times better than a muslim fanatic,,,jews are not randomly killing people like isis or al-qaeda,,,they are defending themselves plus they are india's partners in defence.

why the hell should i critisize them??

So you are admitting that your comments are based on self-interest, not on fundamental principles?

That's fine (we knew it) but it's good that you admit it.

palestenians should have known that killing those 3 children would bring them nothing but destruction but i guess they lack the brains to even think that

While I don't approve of anyone killing civilians, Palestinians killing Israelis is like Indians killing British in British India.

The colonial occupier must sleep with one eye open.

How is it any different from Muslims around the world conditioned to hate the Jews from birth? Your holy books call for killing of Jews and hating them. It does not get more blinding than that.

It's clear that you haven't read similar passages in other religious books, including the Torah and Bible, about non-believers.

The passages in the Quran are about a specific tribe, not Jews in general.

Muslims saved Jews from persecution for centuries. And this is how they get paid back.

The current state of Israel is a colonial imposition by the West, and every group of people has a right to resist their colonial overlords. Just because this particular group of colonialists happen to be Jewish does not give them a carte blanche.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

So you are admitting that your comments are based on self-interest, not on fundamental principles?

That's fine (we knew it) but it's good that you admit it.
.

Doesn't the world survive on self-interest ? Russian'sare staunch anti-chech's ... and pakistan is getting closer to russia.. isnt that self interest my friend ?

 

[he-man]

So you are admitting that your comments are based on self-interest, not on fundamental principles?

That's fine (we knew it) but it's good that you admit it.



While I don't approve of anyone killing civilians, Palestinians killing Israelis is like Indians killing British in British India.

The colonial occupier must sleep with one eye open.

everyone is biased,,,even me.
there is no doubt about it,,,point is how much.

i never said i liked what israel is doing!!i don't like people getting killed but i am merely offering an explanation for their actions.
plus the fact is i would feel 1000 times safer with an israeli than with a palestinian or an indoctrinated arab,,,the likes of whom are fighting as isis or al-qaeda or boko haram or whatever.

slowly and slowly people have stopped caring for muslim life as they themselves are killing and maiming other muslims!!
example------syria,libya,iraq,afganistan.........west pakistan,nigeria.

now tell me,who in the sane mind would not support israel that is keeping the terrorists like hammas and hezbollah in check??

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Doesn't the world survive on self-interest ? Russian'sare staunch anti-chech's ... and pakistan is getting closer to russia.. isnt that self interest my friend ?

u r forgetting chechans r russian citizans they enjoy all the rights as the rest of russians and russians dont bomb them every week and niether do chechans they have buried the past and have moved on the analogy doesnt works

 

[Contrarian]

It's clear that you haven't read similar passages in other religious books, including the Torah and Bible, about non-believers.

The passages in the Quran are about a specific tribe, not Jews in general.

Muslims saved Jews from persecution for centuries. And this is how they get paid back.

The current state of Israel is a colonial imposition by the West, and every group of people has a right to resist their colonial overlords. Just because this particular group of colonialists happen to be Jewish does not give them a carte blanche.

It seems clear to me you have not read the many interpretations of those verses in the Quran.
Those interpretations make it clear its against Jews in general.Would you like me to call a few esteemed Muslim members to present those on this forum?

Just because you are Muslim, does not mean you get a carte blanche to preach hatred to your children against Jews because your 'God wills it' theme. If you think you can cut ice against educated people with hypocrisy, you are wrong.

The issues of Israel would be solved if the Muslims there abjured violence. But you have another theme of 'jihad' for that, another 'God wills it' theme which wont allow peace.

 

[punit]

very true! since israel punishes non jews accused in Blasphemy charges with death sentences : legal or extralegal . .. or wait does it ?