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The World's Best Special Forces

in Kargil :rofl: :rofl:

Then what happened in 1971 :azn: Where was ur SSG

1971, you asked where was SSG in 1971? i'll tell you, they fought to the bitter end!

But i have to hand it to you indians, your cowards! You attacked Pakistan in our civil war (basically you attacked a wounded lion)!

Try being a man and attack us now, and we'll make a very bad example out of you!

:pakistan::pakistan::pakistan:
 
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All I know is, the British invented the concept of a dedicated special forces with their Commandos and later the SAS, and the Soviets perfected the idea of hard-as-nails soldiers with Spetsnaz. Other than that, you can't rank specialist groups within the military. Especially when it comes to SpecOps, there is so much secrecy and legend around most of them, it's impossible to judge them correctly. They don't even all have the same roles, that is why they are referred to as "special". Such rankings are generally based upon "charisma", "legend" etc.

As for the SSG. The SSGs role in Pakistan is much broader than most of the SOFs listed on that list, it ranges from counter-terrorism to body-guarding to special mountain warfare to covert operations to intelligence gathering and what not. If we go by the importance of an SOF to the country, you will be hard-pressed to find a single force that does more for its country than the SSG does for Pakistan's defence. That ranks it not only in the top 10, but quite close to number 1 in my book. It is correct that the SSG has rarely been used to its fullest potential, both in the 65 and 71 wars their capabilities were wasted, but then again, the SSG is about so much more than just fighting a straight-on war.

Other than that, it is all subjective. Such comparisons are quite naive.


Now there desidog, if I didn't know any better, I would think you were flame-baiting.

Sayyaf's words were quite clear, "As for SWAT, it was a successful operation, SSG has helped in eliminating TTP". TTP is no longer in control of Swat, and are in no position to use it as any kind of strong-hold. But I don't blame you, neither the Canadian nor the Indian media has ever covered the successes of Pakistan Army in this War. Sayyaf also never said that the SSG defeated the Soviet Army alone in Afghanistan, but their role cannot be denied. And yes, the SSG has done a marvelous job recently, from the GHQ hostage rescue to the heli-borne attacks in Swat to rescuing 80 school-children in less than a day, they've all been conducted admirably even if they haven't received the press others do.

Salaam!

sorry bro but your wrong there! It wasn't the british who started this special forces concept, it was the Ottoman Turks! Have you ever heard of the Janissary? They were the Elite army of the Sultan and they were very dangerous on the battle field! MashaAllah Muslims have always been masters at warfare in every age!

:pakistan::pakistan::pakistan:
 
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Well I am not sure about this!

Even God Forbid we are defeated by India in future and many of our troops die....but still I think there will be some well trained SSG guys who will be like civilians and will create rebellion among occupied land...covert operations and stuff...


I don't know if it is true....but I think it is...

what do you guys think?
 
. .
1971, you asked where was SSG in 1971? i'll tell you, they fought to the bitter end!

But i have to hand it to you indians, your cowards! You attacked Pakistan in our civil war (basically you attacked a wounded lion)!

Try being a man and attack us now, and we'll make a very bad example out of you!

:pakistan::pakistan::pakistan:

with all due respect SSG is a good special ops squad,but this comment is crossing some limits.And even if India does attack(which it never will as it is a peace-loving country) isn't pakistan already in a war against talibans?Wont you guys say again that we attacked Pakistan when it was weak?You have made a highly objectionable statement
 
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Man,
I hate to see deaf Indians........Where ever u see Indians r troiling. Its the nation problem.

Well for u kid, first wash ur face....and read this how

Pakistan finishes Swat operation

First phase of Sotu Waziristan operation completed

Waziristan operation a success: Mian Ifitikhar

For Soviat Afgan War, all the men were higly trained by Pak SSG.....even Pak SSG fought against Russians.....The operation was fuly supported by Pak...we even blow down Russian jets with F-16 and F-6 (China)

We know wt ur doing in Afghanistan.....we know ur coward move.

Next would be u.......:sniper:
Dont forget how ur army men recalled their nanai, when they lost in 65 and in Kargill.......
:cheers:

Man,
I hate to see deaf Indians........Where ever u see Indians r troiling. Its the nation problem.

Well for u kid, first wash ur face....and read this how

Pakistan finishes Swat operation

First phase of Sotu Waziristan operation completed

Waziristan operation a success: Mian Ifitikhar

For Soviat Afgan War, all the men were higly trained by Pak SSG.....even Pak SSG fought against Russians.....The operation was fuly supported by Pak...we even blow down Russian jets with F-16 and F-6 (China)

We know wt ur doing in Afghanistan.....we know ur coward move.

Next would be u.......:sniper:
Dont forget how ur army men recalled their nanai, when they lost in 65 and in Kargill.......
:cheers:

Well first of all before you call me a Kid, check you own facts brother.

1) There is no Win or loss in the north west territories. You cannot outright defeat an organization like the TTP because they are not like a conventional army. The current state of Pakistan and its security affairs easily outline that your so called victory is no where in sight.
2)The Afghan war is again too big of an issue to discuss here so I wont go into that, but it is much more complex that your dream scenario.
3) When did India loose in 1965 and Kargil. Please get over from what you learn from your “reliable” Pakistan. Media and get your info from more reliable sources.

4) Please top behaving like a Kid, before calling someone a coward, you should introspect what you have done also. I wont exactly call that very brave too.

The SSG is a very potent force, but you baseless comments combined with your kiddish attitude just degrades their image.
 
.
1971, you asked where was SSG in 1971? i'll tell you, they fought to the bitter end!

But i have to hand it to you indians, your cowards! You attacked Pakistan in our civil war (basically you attacked a wounded lion)!

Try being a man and attack us now, and we'll make a very bad example out of you!

:pakistan::pakistan::pakistan:

Really are you so sure ? lol
 
.
:
Dont forget how ur army men recalled their nanai, when they lost in 65 and in Kargill.......
:cheers:


Operation Gibraltar
Role of SSG Para Commandos



Col SG MEHDI, MC who commanded the SSG till just before the 1965 war, gives a fascinating account of SSG operations during the conflict....


This writer is a personal witness to the unfolding of this tragedy as I had the honour to command our Army's Corps de elite, the Special Service Group (SSG) at this critical juncture.

In late May 1965, I was directed by the Vice Chief of General Staff, (late Major General Abid Bilgrami) to go to Murree and see GOC 12 Division, Akhtar Hussian Malik. The GOC's briefing of the outline plan of Gibraltar operation left me stunned. The plan was so childish, so bizarre as to be unacceptable to logical, competent, professionally sound military persons anywhere in the world.


I frankly told General Akhtar Malik that the Operation was a non starter and that I would render the same advice to the Chief and Vice Chief of General Staff. At GHQ, the same day I briefed the CGS and VCGS, who listened to me patiently. The result of my presentation however was barren of the result. Major General Malik Sher Bahadur (The CGS), posed only one question. You (Mehdi) say that operation Gibraltar as planned stands no chance of succeeding, but Akhtar Malik (COG 12 Division) feels confident of its success. My reply to the Chief of the General Staff was that, the conflicting view point of Mehdi and Akhtar Malik not withstanding, as Chief of General Staff of Pakistan Army, he should also have an opinion on this important matter as we were not playing a peace time war game, but with the destiny of Pakistan itself. To this date I remember the reaction of the CGS. He went red right up to his ears, and after a painful pause got up, extended his hand to shake and brought the interview to an end with the remarks that it is always interesting to listen to you!!

Undaunted by the rebuff at Murree and later at the GHQ, I decided to reduce my arguments in writing, as to the reasons why Gibraltar shall fail. These, in brief, were:

1. No ground had been prepared before launching of the operation, in concert with people of the valley.

2. The raids were to be launched in total logistical vacuum relying exclusively of what the troops would carry in their packs or living off the countryside. Without any covert support across the Ceasefire Line, this living off the land proved fatal to the security of the guerrillas. Most of them were betrayed.

3. GHQ had mixed up classic guerrilla operations with Commandos raids.

4. All SSG and other officers, responsible for training and later leading groups across the ceasefire line were critical of the soundness of the plan, unsure of the means and uncertain of the end.

SSG records at Cherat shall substantiate the points made above

The simple truth emerging from the narrative is, that neither the C-in-C Army nor General Staff had the guts to stand up to the President, Field Marshal Ayub Khan, and tell him that his advisers in the ministry of Foreign Affairs supported by GOC 12 Division, Akhtar Malik were taking him on a long ride commencing with Gibraltar, leading to his downfall via Tashkent, as it eventually proved! The loser in the final analysis was Pakistan, described so feelingly by General K.M. Arif in an analysis carried by daily Dawn', 6th September 1990. How and why Pakistan blundered into war .......... At that time, the policy making in the country was highly personalised. The institutions were weak and by-passed. Pakistan's Foreign Office with Mr. Aziz Ahmed as the Foreign Secretary and Mr. Z.A. Bhutto as the Foreign Minister called the martial tunes. It had miscalculated that despite operation Gibraltar, the fighting was likely to remain confined inside the disputed state of Jammu and Kashmir. The Foreign Office is on record to have assessed that India was not in a position to risk a general war with Pakistan......for inexplicable reasons the General Headquarters based its operational plan in Kashmir on a wishful logic. The misplaced ego, the high ambition and the naive approach of a selected few plunged the country into an armed conflict. The outcome of the war, or the lack of it, eclipsed Ayub's position.

S.S.G. COMMANDO PARA DROPS

The 1965 War cannot be worthy of study unless the story of Pakistani commando drops on Adampur, Helwara and Pathankot air bases are briefly recounted. John Fricker calls this operation as an unmitigated disaster'. This operation conceived initially by PAF Chief who obtained the nod' of Ayub Khan in May/June 1965 while planning for operational contingencies in the event of an Indian aggression. Such advance operational planning is normal to all service HQ in peace time. GHQ passed the buck on to the commander of SSG- this writer. On being told by Vice Chief of General Staff Brigadier Bilgrami who had these instructions conveyed to him from Musa and Sher Bahadur the Chief of General Staff, I emphatically pointed out that the concept of operation was faulty as no raids of this nature, after the breakout of war, could have even a remote chance of success against fully alerted targets.

On my persistent refusal, GHQ told me that I should give my reasons for not undertaking the envisaged operation direct to the HQ, PAF. At a briefing arranged at SSG Parachute Training School at Peshawar in the presence of two senior officers of my command, Lt. Col. Abdul Matin, the Commander of No. 1 Commando Battalion, now retired and the brilliant Operations Staff Officer Maj. E. H. Dar, (Late Major General E. H. Dar) Air Force Chief were told that only a pre-emptive operation like the Israeli crippling raids against the front line Arab State's air bases as in 1956 Arab Israel War, could have probability of success. To this, the Air Chief observed that a decision to carry out pre-emptive operation as suggested could only be taken by the Government-meaning the President. Technically the observation made was correct but in that case the operation should have been based on the hypothesis of pre-emptive' alone. I had also objected to the para-commandos after being dropped, just left there in the void, in the heart of 100% hostile population with no equivalent of French Maquis to hide, feed and organise the escape of commandos.

That this was an unmitigated disaster from beginning to end is correct but for no fault of the brave band of commandos or their officers. I have already rendered a full account of this in my testimony to Hamood-ur-Rehman Commission, besides submission of a report to the Chief of General Staff and C-in-C in 1967.


S.S.G. COMMANDO PARA DROPS

The 1965 War cannot be worthy of study unless the story of Pakistani commando drops on Adampur, Helwara and Pathankot air bases are briefly recounted. John Fricker calls this operation as an unmitigated disaster'. This operation conceived initially by PAF Chief who obtained the nod' of Ayub Khan in May/June 1965 while planning for operational contingencies in the event of an Indian aggression. Such advance operational planning is normal to all service HQ in peace time. GHQ passed the buck on to the commander of SSG- this writer. On being told by Vice Chief of General Staff Brigadier Bilgrami who had these instructions conveyed to him from Musa and Sher Bahadur the Chief of General Staff, I emphatically pointed out that the concept of operation was faulty as no raids of this nature, after the breakout of war, could have even a remote chance of success against fully alerted targets.

On my persistent refusal, GHQ told me that I should give my reasons for not undertaking the envisaged operation direct to the HQ, PAF. At a briefing arranged at SSG Parachute Training School at Peshawar in the presence of two senior officers of my command, Lt. Col. Abdul Matin, the Commander of No. 1 Commando Battalion, now retired and the brilliant Operations Staff Officer Maj. E. H. Dar, (Late Major General E. H. Dar) Air Force Chief were told that only a pre-emptive operation like the Israeli crippling raids against the front line Arab State's air bases as in 1956 Arab Israel War, could have probability of success. To this, the Air Chief observed that a decision to carry out pre-emptive operation as suggested could only be taken by the Government-meaning the President. Technically the observation made was correct but in that case the operation should have been based on the hypothesis of pre-emptive' alone. I had also objected to the para-commandos after being dropped, just left there in the void, in the heart of 100% hostile population with no equivalent of French Maquis to hide, feed and organise the escape of commandos.

That this was an unmitigated disaster from beginning to end is correct but for no fault of the brave band of commandos or their officers. I have already rendered a full account of this in my testimony to Hamood-ur-Rehman Commission, besides submission of a report to the Chief of General Staff and C-in-C in 1967.

PS:Read the full article .

1965 War Operation Gibraltar Role of SSG Para Commandos
 
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Please guys grow up and don’t make this thread into another India vs Pakistan thread. Seriously I dint even mention anyone of the countries on the original post and even then some people have nothing better to do than bragging for no reason. Stop turning everything into an Ego war and learn how to listen to the other person. Dishing out personal remarks and statements against countries is very easy and does not require a brain. Its sickening to watch every single thread become a bitching contest between Indian’s and Pakistan’s.GROW UP PEOPLE.
 
.
Operation Gibraltar
Role of SSG Para Commandos



Col SG MEHDI, MC who commanded the SSG till just before the 1965 war, gives a fascinating account of SSG operations during the conflict....


This writer is a personal witness to the unfolding of this tragedy as I had the honour to command our Army's Corps de elite, the Special Service Group (SSG) at this critical juncture.

In late May 1965, I was directed by the Vice Chief of General Staff, (late Major General Abid Bilgrami) to go to Murree and see GOC 12 Division, Akhtar Hussian Malik. The GOC's briefing of the outline plan of Gibraltar operation left me stunned. The plan was so childish, so bizarre as to be unacceptable to logical, competent, professionally sound military persons anywhere in the world.


I frankly told General Akhtar Malik that the Operation was a non starter and that I would render the same advice to the Chief and Vice Chief of General Staff. At GHQ, the same day I briefed the CGS and VCGS, who listened to me patiently. The result of my presentation however was barren of the result. Major General Malik Sher Bahadur (The CGS), posed only one question. You (Mehdi) say that operation Gibraltar as planned stands no chance of succeeding, but Akhtar Malik (COG 12 Division) feels confident of its success. My reply to the Chief of the General Staff was that, the conflicting view point of Mehdi and Akhtar Malik not withstanding, as Chief of General Staff of Pakistan Army, he should also have an opinion on this important matter as we were not playing a peace time war game, but with the destiny of Pakistan itself. To this date I remember the reaction of the CGS. He went red right up to his ears, and after a painful pause got up, extended his hand to shake and brought the interview to an end with the remarks that it is always interesting to listen to you!!

Undaunted by the rebuff at Murree and later at the GHQ, I decided to reduce my arguments in writing, as to the reasons why Gibraltar shall fail. These, in brief, were:

1. No ground had been prepared before launching of the operation, in concert with people of the valley.

2. The raids were to be launched in total logistical vacuum relying exclusively of what the troops would carry in their packs or living off the countryside. Without any covert support across the Ceasefire Line, this living off the land proved fatal to the security of the guerrillas. Most of them were betrayed.

3. GHQ had mixed up classic guerrilla operations with Commandos raids.

4. All SSG and other officers, responsible for training and later leading groups across the ceasefire line were critical of the soundness of the plan, unsure of the means and uncertain of the end.

SSG records at Cherat shall substantiate the points made above

The simple truth emerging from the narrative is, that neither the C-in-C Army nor General Staff had the guts to stand up to the President, Field Marshal Ayub Khan, and tell him that his advisers in the ministry of Foreign Affairs supported by GOC 12 Division, Akhtar Malik were taking him on a long ride commencing with Gibraltar, leading to his downfall via Tashkent, as it eventually proved! The loser in the final analysis was Pakistan, described so feelingly by General K.M. Arif in an analysis carried by daily Dawn', 6th September 1990. How and why Pakistan blundered into war .......... At that time, the policy making in the country was highly personalised. The institutions were weak and by-passed. Pakistan's Foreign Office with Mr. Aziz Ahmed as the Foreign Secretary and Mr. Z.A. Bhutto as the Foreign Minister called the martial tunes. It had miscalculated that despite operation Gibraltar, the fighting was likely to remain confined inside the disputed state of Jammu and Kashmir. The Foreign Office is on record to have assessed that India was not in a position to risk a general war with Pakistan......for inexplicable reasons the General Headquarters based its operational plan in Kashmir on a wishful logic. The misplaced ego, the high ambition and the naive approach of a selected few plunged the country into an armed conflict. The outcome of the war, or the lack of it, eclipsed Ayub's position.

S.S.G. COMMANDO PARA DROPS

The 1965 War cannot be worthy of study unless the story of Pakistani commando drops on Adampur, Helwara and Pathankot air bases are briefly recounted. John Fricker calls this operation as an unmitigated disaster'. This operation conceived initially by PAF Chief who obtained the nod' of Ayub Khan in May/June 1965 while planning for operational contingencies in the event of an Indian aggression. Such advance operational planning is normal to all service HQ in peace time. GHQ passed the buck on to the commander of SSG- this writer. On being told by Vice Chief of General Staff Brigadier Bilgrami who had these instructions conveyed to him from Musa and Sher Bahadur the Chief of General Staff, I emphatically pointed out that the concept of operation was faulty as no raids of this nature, after the breakout of war, could have even a remote chance of success against fully alerted targets.

On my persistent refusal, GHQ told me that I should give my reasons for not undertaking the envisaged operation direct to the HQ, PAF. At a briefing arranged at SSG Parachute Training School at Peshawar in the presence of two senior officers of my command, Lt. Col. Abdul Matin, the Commander of No. 1 Commando Battalion, now retired and the brilliant Operations Staff Officer Maj. E. H. Dar, (Late Major General E. H. Dar) Air Force Chief were told that only a pre-emptive operation like the Israeli crippling raids against the front line Arab State's air bases as in 1956 Arab Israel War, could have probability of success. To this, the Air Chief observed that a decision to carry out pre-emptive operation as suggested could only be taken by the Government-meaning the President. Technically the observation made was correct but in that case the operation should have been based on the hypothesis of pre-emptive' alone. I had also objected to the para-commandos after being dropped, just left there in the void, in the heart of 100% hostile population with no equivalent of French Maquis to hide, feed and organise the escape of commandos.

That this was an unmitigated disaster from beginning to end is correct but for no fault of the brave band of commandos or their officers. I have already rendered a full account of this in my testimony to Hamood-ur-Rehman Commission, besides submission of a report to the Chief of General Staff and C-in-C in 1967.


S.S.G. COMMANDO PARA DROPS

The 1965 War cannot be worthy of study unless the story of Pakistani commando drops on Adampur, Helwara and Pathankot air bases are briefly recounted. John Fricker calls this operation as an unmitigated disaster'. This operation conceived initially by PAF Chief who obtained the nod' of Ayub Khan in May/June 1965 while planning for operational contingencies in the event of an Indian aggression. Such advance operational planning is normal to all service HQ in peace time. GHQ passed the buck on to the commander of SSG- this writer. On being told by Vice Chief of General Staff Brigadier Bilgrami who had these instructions conveyed to him from Musa and Sher Bahadur the Chief of General Staff, I emphatically pointed out that the concept of operation was faulty as no raids of this nature, after the breakout of war, could have even a remote chance of success against fully alerted targets.

On my persistent refusal, GHQ told me that I should give my reasons for not undertaking the envisaged operation direct to the HQ, PAF. At a briefing arranged at SSG Parachute Training School at Peshawar in the presence of two senior officers of my command, Lt. Col. Abdul Matin, the Commander of No. 1 Commando Battalion, now retired and the brilliant Operations Staff Officer Maj. E. H. Dar, (Late Major General E. H. Dar) Air Force Chief were told that only a pre-emptive operation like the Israeli crippling raids against the front line Arab State's air bases as in 1956 Arab Israel War, could have probability of success. To this, the Air Chief observed that a decision to carry out pre-emptive operation as suggested could only be taken by the Government-meaning the President. Technically the observation made was correct but in that case the operation should have been based on the hypothesis of pre-emptive' alone. I had also objected to the para-commandos after being dropped, just left there in the void, in the heart of 100% hostile population with no equivalent of French Maquis to hide, feed and organise the escape of commandos.

That this was an unmitigated disaster from beginning to end is correct but for no fault of the brave band of commandos or their officers. I have already rendered a full account of this in my testimony to Hamood-ur-Rehman Commission, besides submission of a report to the Chief of General Staff and C-in-C in 1967.

PS:Read the full article .

1965 War Operation Gibraltar Role of SSG Para Commandos

This is how a mature person post not like some other people here who cannot post one line before coming up with a comment on the opposing country. Post facts and reliable articles, makes reading the post fun and not redundant like always.
 
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No I rank USA as having among the best special forces in the world.

Many Muslim countries formed their special forces with help from USA including Pakistan.

Since they are pioneers along with the British. Americans are among the best, if not the best special forces outfit in the world.
Precisely because most here have never worn the uniform of a fast food or merchandising retailer franchise, let alone endured and graduated from the rigors of even Basic Training, they have a gross misconception regarding the philosophy of 'Special Forces' and 'Special Operations', hence the focus so much on the pain and terror of the Spetnaz inflicted by their seniors on their subordinates, as if having a extraordinary high pain tolerance make one smarter, more intellectually agile, improved situational awareness skills, etc...etc...Next focus is on the weapons skills -- equally juvenile -- without proper context of the type of mission this force is supposedly uniquely qualified to perform.
 
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Well I am not sure about this!

Even God Forbid we are defeated by India in future and many of our troops die....but still I think there will be some well trained SSG guys who will be like civilians and will create rebellion among occupied land...covert operations and stuff...


I don't know if it is true....but I think it is...

what do you guys think?

That is exactly what the Iraqi Republican guard did, they formed insurgent groups to put up a stiff resistance against occupying forces!

Also, i saw a Al-Jazeera video on youtube of a "former" Pakistani soldier training the Afghan Taliban against American, NATO, and ISAF forces!

:pakistan::pakistan::pakistan:
 
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This is how a mature person post not like some other people here who cannot post one line before coming up with a comment on the opposing country. Post facts and reliable articles, makes reading the post fun and not redundant like always.

Of course every army and special forces made mistakes in the past and leaned from those mistakes! It gives experience to the army to avoid such mistakes in the future!

:pakistan::pakistan::pakistan:
 
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That is exactly what the Iraqi Republican guard did, they formed insurgent groups to put up a stiff resistance against occupying forces!

Also, i saw a Al-Jazeera video on youtube of a "former" Pakistani soldier training the Afghan Taliban against American, NATO, and ISAF forces!

:pakistan::pakistan::pakistan:

LOL im not so sure thats something you want to mention on a public forum when on one side Pakistan is claiming to be spearheading the so called war against terror lol So your also saying that the so called "former" soldier is also training the TTP against the Pakistani army also because aren’t they also part of the forces fighting in the region. Be careful what you say brother.
 
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with all due respect SSG is a good special ops squad,but this comment is crossing some limits.And even if India does attack(which it never will as it is a peace-loving country) isn't pakistan already in a war against talibans?Wont you guys say again that we attacked Pakistan when it was weak?You have made a highly objectionable statement

East Pakistan was a whole different story! The Bengalis were fed with anti Pakistani and anti Punjabi propaganda by indians and their allies in east Pakistan so they fell for the trap and joined the rebellion that Pakistan army had successfully finished! BTW, Pakistan was under sanctions in 1971, our troops in east Pakistan didn't have enough supplies to last long enough!

Pashtuns don't hate Pakistan, Alhamdulillah they are VERY patriotic, and i mean VERY VERY patriotic MashaAllah! I've seen Pashtuns who love Pakistan more than punjabis do, and they are willing to sacrifice their lives for Islam and Pakistan!

:pakistan::pakistan::pakistan:

BTW, Taliban are almost finished, their strongholds in SWAT and Waziristan have been destroyed Alhamdulillah! As for you indians, you have more 33 insurgencies in your own country! 40% of india has Naxalite and MAOIST presence!

Naxalite rebellion menaces the heart of India | Worldfocus
 
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