The wonder that was Pakistan

[Zane_K]

Lol,,all states/countries ARE artificial constructs to begin with.
Its just that some actually have a past worthy of reminiscence,,while others have to borrow n make up stuff.

what immediately comes to mind when I see statements like yours is this habit of picking and choosing... do you not reminisce about the good old days of the British Raj?

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

Even after 70 years of modern Indian nationhood, the Dravidian South does not accept Hindi as a single language and fiercely protect their separate identity, as does North-East India, as do the Maratha, the Gujarati, the Bengali, and the Adivasi tribes and few others I could mention. If you don't have a clear national identity now, how can you make a claim to a historical identity, especially one that is based on loose facts?

Umm..language identity, goes hand in hand with national identity. I know you guys don't have a very good experience with it based on your quest for a monolithic identity just after Partition. But don't worry, we know how to handle small issues and thankfully we are not as careless as you guys with regards to handling language politics.

You just answered my statement by repeating what I said. The Rig Vida and Mahabharata are religious literature, and cannot be used as historical fact. So Bharat is a religious methodological figure being claimed by a secular country.

I believe some Muslims consider their own religious literature to be historical fact. Or are you not one of those?

Historically, people did not have a national identity or they would be speaking a single language, language is the basis of any ethnic identity. They were concerned with their caste, ethnic and linguistic identity etc, just like Europe. There is a wider European cultural identity but not a National European identity. There was no Hindu identity, as Hindu is also a foreign name. You were known by your caste, not by the Hindu religion, Hindu is a new identity adopted in the modern age.

I agree to this somewhat. But if you look at present India, we definitely have a national identity that goes hand in hand with our regional identities.

 

[SIPRA]

Some of you guys on this thread are hell bent on following the theme of obsessively digging up the past ( akin to mad archaeologists ) only when it suits.
I see it all over the media.

Such threads are very attractive for the grave diggers of history.

Yeh sab kay sab taareekh kay kafan chor haen.

 

[halupridol]

So present day India created in 1947 has a past to reminisce about when it was one entity before that date of August 15th 1947.

Can you tell me when did Bhayyas ever had such a massive empire before in history?

Maybe,,,maybe not.
Ancient Indian bhayyas did have significant indiginous empires.
Perhaps u shud ask all the indologists worldover n ponder upon ancient personas/travelers who described India.

what immediately comes to mind when I see statements like yours is this habit of picking and choosing... do you not reminisce about the good old days of the British Raj?

Thats the thing,,,200 years of brits vs milleniums by brits,mongoloid turks,afghans,persians,huns,kushans,aira,ghaira,,,list goes on.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

Unlike you lot, we are not stuck in our fantasies, we deal with facts. We have never claimed an ethnic Pakistani identity, we make a claim to National Identity and a shared historical identity.

Nor do we claim any ethnic identity. Regarding the fantasies part, I see plenty of Pakistanis with the conception that they ruled India, when in fact they did not. In fact, present Pakistani land was always the first to fall to the invaders. And it would be fair enough to say, that Pakistan was ruled over the most by the invaders. Even before the Islamic invasions, current Pakistani land was ruled by the Maurya empire, Gupta empire, etc which are empires with capitals in present India.

 

[El Sidd]

Maybe,,,maybe not.
Ancient Indian bhayyas did have significant indiginous empires.
Perhaps u shud ask all the indologists worldover n ponder upon ancient personas/travelers who described India.

I don't need to ask anyone but a non hindi speaking subject like you. You have a story to tell but now must tell it in a bhayya language.

India was always described as the Indus valley by Persians, Afghans and Arabs.

Outsiders have described and defined you throughout history. You do not have a monolith definition of a state or a nation from within.

Israelites, Ethiopians, Romans and Chinese document you as warring princely merchant states.

It was only the muslim itch of rebellion that took away Bangladesh. Otherwise you would be speaking Urdu by now

 

[W.11]

Dont angry me dear,,,i speak my mind.
If anyone thn u shud be angry on ur ancestors who readily accepted polishing invaders boots n likewise the imposition of a language from a supposedly nazriyati dushman country,,,while trying to make a alternative identity for themselves.
U wanted to become somthng NOT INDIA,,,n ended up being LIKE INDIA.
What gives??

rather you are upset that your ancestors got their arse whooped by the so called invaders hence more whining and crying.

if urdu is as indian as it gets, why BJP is hell bent on removing it in uttarakhand? why was their a movement by hindu nationalists to back hindi in british government and remove urdu?

regards

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

UNLIKE INDIA, ALL THE PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN HAVE ALREADY ACCEPTED UDRU AS A UNITARY LANGUAGE, IN A HUNDRED YEAR OR SO, WE WILL BE ABLE TO CLAIM AN ETHNIC PAKISTANI IDENTITY AS WELL. Because URDU WOULD HAVE ENTRENCHED ITSELF AMONG THE PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN, ADDING TO OUR SHARED CULTURAL and RELIGIOUS VALUES. Language, Culture and Religious dogma once established lay the basis of ethnic identity. Pakistan is far ahead of creating this ethnic identity then India.

Your quest to establish a uniform ethnic sounds eerily familiar. Oh..the Nazi mentality, eh? If it's too hard for you to understand, ethnic identity is different from language identity. Pakistan being ahead in creating any sort of identity is not of any concern to India. For the Indians, Pakistan is always looked at as a confused state.

 

[Zane_K]

Maybe,,,maybe not.
Ancient Indian bhayyas did have significant indiginous empires.
Perhaps u shud ask all the indologists worldover n ponder upon ancient personas/travelers who described India.


Thats the thing,,,200 years of brits vs milleniums by brits,mongoloid turks,afghans,persians,huns,Kushan,aira,ghaira,,,list goes on.

oh right..ok ..you like going back...way back.

Ok tell me what effect did them periods of history have on the present day Hindu, that British colonialism period didn’t have. I’ll tell you ..nothing.
The British had more effect on the present day Hindu....period.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

rather you are upset that your ancestors got their arse whooped by the so called invaders hence more whining and crying.

The invaders definitely flew over present day Pakistan didn't they. Guys, Pakistan is the only country in the world that has never been conquered. The Turks failed, the Greeks failed, the British failed, the pre-Islamic North Indians (Maurya empire, Gupta empire) failed. Every country in the world envies Pakistan. Pakistan is the ultimate super power. Indians are in awe of Pakistan's glorious history.

 

[namefield_empty]

BTW yes,,I whole heartedly agree,,it needs one to be extraordinarily "brave" n "ghairatmand" above n beyond average human capacity to be subjugated by each n every other aira ghaira natthu khaira on horseback for milleniums.
Absolutely especial.

Lmao dust, fali disa be

But i feel we in our state's context need to spread and propagate the tales of valour displayed by our ancestors before those who don't spare a chance to misinform others.

 

[B.K.N]

For the Indians, Pakistan is always looked at as a confused state.

Why Indians think so much about Pakistan and its languages? And how is Pakistan confused? Your language is marathi you can also understand Urdu and English it makes you confused?

 

[Zane_K]

The invaders definitely flew over present day Pakistan didn't they. Guys, Pakistan is the only country in the world that has never been conquered. The Turks failed, the Greeks failed, the British failed, the pre-Islamic North Indians (Maurya empire, Gupta empire) failed. Every country in the world envies Pakistan. Pakistan is the ultimate super power. Indians are in awe of Pakistan's glorious history.

Me thinks... you a little sarcastic there my fellow member...

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

Anyways, isn't this thread about a rare Pakistani son of soil ruler? Why has the discussion shifted to India?

 

[W.11]

The invaders definitely flew over present day Pakistan didn't they. Guys, Pakistan is the only country in the world that has never been conquered. The Turks failed, the Greeks failed, the British failed, the pre-Islamic North Indians (Maurya empire, Gupta empire) failed. Every country in the world envies Pakistan. Pakistan is the ultimate super power. Indians are in awe of Pakistan's glorious history.

is there a nation on earth which was never invaded, your whining and crying rather represents hindu nationalism and inferiority complex than anything else. why not except that just like everybody else hindutvas were ruled and subjugated instead of crying and whining on it endlessly.

regards