The Wide Side Ft. Mir Muhammad Ali Khan

[Sheena1980]

Well people in our part of the world are emotional, dogmatic and easily provoked to anger. The difference is that you had farsighted rulers and thus are in better shape, whereas people from our side are more frustrated and the society has regressed. I like it when you post you're usually thinking 3-4 years ahead, whereas people here are oblivious to the concept of long-term thinking. They don't know where they would be in next 10 or 20 years, and just live for shortsighted adrenaline and gains, which is a major reason why we are in a mess. I wasn't particularly asking about the interview, but his speculation that Pak's reserves will reach $30 billion by the end of 2019. If possible, would you like to share your e-mail, would love to benefit from your profound intellect & knowledge.

Your reserves stand near 8 billion $. Even if you add up all the loans to the reserves, it will come to 13-14 Billion $. This man is claiming 30 Bln $ by year end. Common sense - How’s it possible on what base. He didn’t give any details on how. So it’s just a eyewash. If he really has sound knowledge of finance & economics, he won’t make such projection without rationality, it will question his competence on the subject. You can be patriotic & optimistic but not overplay unless you have facts backing it. If he said the same for even 3-4 years that could still be accepted.

With present economic stats, If you touch 25 Bln in next 3-4 years, it's a great achievement according to me. Assume if India opens continuous firing at LOC for a month, it can drain 1-2 billion. A natural disaster like Earth quake or flood can wipe out a couple of billions. Few tension at Afghan border, terrorism, unrest/protests/strike/bandh for 2-3 days each can drain a couple of billion in a year. If US or west imposes sanctions you will lose trade of a couple of billion, If oil prices cross 90$ your entire reserves can evaporate within two months. Pakistan will come to a standstill economically & you will literally go bankrupt without fuel, transportation, food, security, jobs & nobody to lend or bail you out. You have lot of bottlenecks to fix. It’s not so easy as he projects. A country cannot grow with words or emotions. It works with policies, practicality, fixing bottlenecks & most important right action at right time.

According to the pressure Imran Khan would be in now & knowing his temper, I think he will be exhausted running around & he will get disappointed, tired, demotivated & dejected. I won't be surprised if he gets a nervous breakdown. Pakistan has to find different option to solve Kashmir. Every body says that's the root cause of India-Pakistan tensions. But your approach to the issue has been same for over 70 years.

The question Pakistanis need to ask is How long can you hold on to Kashmir, at what cost. Are you willing to break up your country for your stubbornness of Kashmir. Yes same questions can be asked for India also. It’s a war of egos.

But India is in a position to withstand the loss of Kashmir. True both are sentimental & emotional, but you need to study the pros & cons. Another question to be asked is Can India eventually annex Azad Kashmir & GB. If they do, what was the use of the billions of dollar drained for over 70 years with lakhs of lives sacrificed? Is that all for this result, destruction at the end. Why wait for that humiliation, why not unite & both enjoy all of Kashmir.

Let’s leave all this aside Let’s do a case study: Let’s assume India & Pakistan has struck some kind of peace & say both are able to lay off or reduce just 50,000 soldiers at the border. How will it affect your ledger. Let’s say average salary of a soldier is 20,000 Rs.

So 50,000 Soldiers (x) 20,000 Rs. Salary = 100,00,00,000. This is 1 Billion or 100 crore Rupees a month or 1200 crores a year saved. Simple mathematics. It will be far more than what I mentioned.

Now you can guess the total no. of soldiers deployed with all the other operational cost every day. So each person knows how the LOC has & is draining billions an year for both countries. What an absolute waste of resource, energy, time for earning disappointment, hatred, bloodshed & destroyed family’s happiness & positivity. It is difficult to get out of negativity & depression once it kicks in. It takes out all your strength to function, excel, fight & move forward.

We both can grow rapidly if we solve this one problem. Rest all are proxies which will save few more billions which is lost by means of spying, conspiracy theories, terrorism, lobbying, trade, etc. Mobilisation of troops, Operating cost, radars, Manpower for intelligence, Communication & Satellite costs, back office support cost, mortars, bullets, ammunition, helmets, Guns, Land mines, Jackets, Special equipments, Housing costs, Transport, Fuel for vehicles/ Jets/ Helicopters cost, building bunkers, training, civilian buildings, infrastructure, injuries, Casuality & Disability costs, Medical expenses, Rescue operation costs, all cost money.

Just imagine food expenses every day for the entire soldiers deployed. Just imagine compensations paid to the dead soldier’s family every year. All these are lost continuously at the border apart from soldiers. So bare minimum 2500-3000 crores saved a year if you cut just 50,000 soldiers, simple, simple mathematics. This money can go into education, skill development, factories, dams, roads, infrastructure, social welfare, sports, Science & technology, research, etc.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/365963/pakistan-india-should-withdraw-troops-from-siachen-sharif/

https://www.dawn.com/news/1237803

Your argument India is the one not willing to solve, India is one not willing to talk. It’s correct. There was a time India wanted to talk & Pakistan just did not accept our terms & was adamant they want the whole of J&K. Now India is in a far authoritative position. You may not accept it, but that’s truth. You don’t have the balm of a good economy to engage the public with sufficient cash, basic necessities & happiness. You have grave internal problems threatening break up for all sides but you are still worried of getting Kashmir. Traitors are cropping up faster than the monsoon harvest every year. This is not at all a very healthy or good sign. They will bring doom & break up for sure. It’s fast gaining pace & eventually going to explode into a total uncontrollable mess.

India’s economic problems may start near 2025-28 based on the economic stats. We have huge amount of Gold in our country, so situation like yours will take a decade to come. So we have a buffer of time & reserves to hold on, where in we can put in more efforts try new methods to keep pushing this still further.

Pakistan right now is trapped from all sides. Any time riots & civil unrest can break out in your country along with religious fundamentalists blaming the Gov.t & democracy, for all the problems trying to take over Gov.t like Religious fundamentalist did in Iran around early 80’s creating a total tear away of the country’s outlook.

Unification can solve the problem since both have access to all of Kashmir, but is it practical. “No” if you ask me.

There will be even more religious clashes & terror if we unite. Then how can we solve this. This is the answer you have to find. I know the answer, but you tell me.

But what you can do First is, take all the mullahs in Pakistan & execute them & close all the Madrasas. If some Mullah or religious fanatic wants to change, handcuff them shave their beards & make them preach there is mistakes in our religious text & ideology. The day all religious leaders united give this statement, slowly the radicalised beliefs & approaches will slowly phase out & change to modern tolerant humanitarian beliefs & approach of common sense will prevail. The Gov.t should pass a law anybody who wish to change the religion have the right to change. Just this law will be welcomed by the international community as a highly positive gesture. It will immediately help you with investments starting to knock for your efforts.

Only if you have modern & progressive views a country can develop. You have to let the ladies out if a country has to develop. If you want to control a lady because you think she will go & litter outside, you & your country will keep having negative setbacks.

Muslims don’t know this. A lady is generally patient, soft, forgiving, kind & caring. She is the one who bears most of the pain. Pregnancy, nurturing taking care of child, feeding them, etc. So no house, country will prosper if there is injustice done to a lady, if a lady is unhappy. A lady is the light of the house. A woman cooks for the family generally, so she is like the energy source/electricity. A woman is said to be the caregiver of the house --- it is said that a woman can make or break a family. A house where a woman is always getting angry, upset or irritated never stays happy.

It’s the women who can show case the culture of any country. You cannot put a man to showcase culture. It won’t be sold. Only a lady can give soft power to a country. Only a lady can carry a grace in dancing or singing not men. Put you ladies in the front when you build relation with other countries. Developed countries judge you from how you treat your ladies. You have to take inspiration from countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, Tunisia, Lebanon, Azerbaijan or Turkey if Pakistan needs to grow. Even Bangladesh is growing faster because women have more liberty & freedom. Bangladesh should ideally be in the list since the Bengali Muslims are generally more tolerant than Pakistani and even Indian Muslims.

Sorry I don’t want to disclose my email id on this forum, but I am open for discussion. I appreciate your attitude. This is the kind of discussion Pakistan should be doing on such forums. It builds relation. The more you post negative about India, they more you get negative. This forum is like a house filled with hatred, jealousy, negative energy & posts filled with negativity. So what should you do.

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1432866/business-economy

https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/20...ojected-to-slow-to-3-7-in-fy18-19-world-bank/

I know many people will be angry & frustrated with my post & will attack me mock at me. But I am just replying to somebody’s sincerity. I put my time & effort. Go through all the links. If it helps, great. If not, no problem. Thanks

 

[Sheena1980]

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/do-n...-colleges-hefajat-e-islam-chief-shafi.596656/

This is exactly what I was mentioning. If Islam needs to be saved & respected, Muslims should stop giving too much power & importance to Mullahs. If you allow Mullah to conduct public speeches soon it will turn into such exploitation. Best examples are Iran & Afghanistan beautiful countries destroyed by stealing rights of women & oppressing them by imposing Mullah culture. Erdogan also wants to turn Turkey into Islamic state & you can see Turkey is slowly crumbling under his rule. He has taken his economy backward. Europeans are starting to feel insecure with Turks due to Erdogan.

This will lead to destruction of peace & prosperity of any country who chooses such path or promotes it. You can have imams in Mosques, that's it. Keep religion & preaching at home unless asked.

 

[Ocelot]

Your reserves stand near 8 billion $. Even if you add up all the loans to the reserves, it will come to 13-14 Billion $. This man is claiming 30 Bln $ by year end. Common sense - How’s it possible on what base. He didn’t give any details on how. So it’s just a eyewash. If he really has sound knowledge of finance & economics, he won’t make such projection without rationality, it will question his competence on the subject. You can be patriotic & optimistic but not overplay unless you have facts backing it. If he said the same for even 3-4 years that could still be accepted.

With present economic stats, If you touch 25 Bln in next 3-4 years, it's a great achievement according to me. Assume if India opens continuous firing at LOC for a month, it can drain 1-2 billion. A natural disaster like Earth quake or flood can wipe out a couple of billions. Few tension at Afghan border, terrorism, unrest/protests/strike/bandh for 2-3 days each can drain a couple of billion in a year. If US or west imposes sanctions you will lose trade of a couple of billion, If oil prices cross 90$ your entire reserves can evaporate within two months. Pakistan will come to a standstill economically & you will literally go bankrupt without fuel, transportation, food, security, jobs & nobody to lend or bail you out. You have lot of bottlenecks to fix. It’s not so easy as he projects. A country cannot grow with words or emotions. It works with policies, practicality, fixing bottlenecks & most important right action at right time.

Well then we have to wait till the end of the year to see if his prediction really comes true or not. LoC conflict could become a bigger issue since India is going through an election year. At the moment it seems like Modi can even lose the election or a hung parliament will be formed. A heated conflict at LoC would probably give Modi a huge lifeline due to injecting nationalistic adrenaline in India. So Pakistan will probably make every effort to avoid that.

Pakistan has the potential to collect Rs. 8000 billion in taxes whereas at the moment it's only collecting around Rs. 4500 billion. So it has started taxing the elite which doesn't pay taxes. Better policies are in pipeline.

According to the pressure Imran Khan would be in now & knowing his temper, I think he will be exhausted running around & he will get disappointed, tired, demotivated & dejected. I won't be surprised if he gets a nervous breakdown.

Well I don’t think so. Imran Khan is the type of soul who is born and made for work. If he was a lesser man he’d given up long ago against the entrenched mafias of Nawaz league and People’s Party (as Hassan Nisar calls them). Just 130 days in the government and he already chaired 14-15 cabinet meetings, in comparison the lazy Sharif only did 39 meeting in his 4 years and that too when he was pleaded to do so. At the moment the bureaucracy, which was partner in crime with previous regimes is trying to create hurdles in his way by going slow since Imran wants to overhaul bureaucracy, but he’s gradually overcoming them.

Imran Khan is a naturally hardworking man, very optimistic, and with an incredible self belief. His life is a quintessential example of a man who overcomes adversary against all odds. After he became captain of team he only took one day off practice, the day his mother died. So him losing motivation or having a nervous breakdown is totally out of the question.

Pakistan has to find different option to solve Kashmir. Every body says that's the root cause of India-Pakistan tensions. But your approach to the issue has been same for over 70 years.

The question Pakistanis need to ask is How long can you hold on to Kashmir, at what cost. Are you willing to break up your country for your stubbornness of Kashmir. Yes same questions can be asked for India also. It’s a war of egos.

But India is in a position to withstand the loss of Kashmir. True both are sentimental & emotional, but you need to study the pros & cons. Another question to be asked is Can India eventually annex Azad Kashmir & GB. If they do, what was the use of the billions of dollar drained for over 70 years with lakhs of lives sacrificed? Is that all for this result, destruction at the end. Why wait for that humiliation, why not unite & both enjoy all of Kashmir.

I personally belong to the camp who believe LoC should be converted into International Border. Suppose you militarily take Kashmir and GB do you think that would solve the problem. People of GB are in fact quite patriotic and demanding the Pakistani govt to give them official provincial status. Even if you annex GB you will face a problem far larger than what you face in Kashmir valley. Plus Pakistan has water requirements and its survival lies in the building of dams to conserve water, otherwise it’ll become an increasingly water scarce country. If LoC becomes IB then people on your side of Kashmir will also calm down since the notion of an independent Kashmir will go away. But I think India is not even willing to do that and is happy with status quo.

Let’s leave all this aside Let’s do a case study: Let’s assume India & Pakistan has struck some kind of peace & say both are able to lay off or reduce just 50,000 soldiers at the border. How will it affect your ledger. Let’s say average salary of a soldier is 20,000 Rs.

So 50,000 Soldiers (x) 20,000 Rs. Salary = 100,00,00,000. This is 1 Billion or 100 crore Rupees a month or 1200 crores a year saved. Simple mathematics. It will be far more than what I mentioned.

Now you can guess the total no. of soldiers deployed with all the other operational cost every day. So each person knows how the LOC has & is draining billions an year for both countries. What an absolute waste of resource, energy, time for earning disappointment, hatred, bloodshed & destroyed family’s happiness & positivity. It is difficult to get out of negativity & depression once it kicks in. It takes out all your strength to function, excel, fight & move forward.

We both can grow rapidly if we solve this one problem. Rest all are proxies which will save few more billions which is lost by means of spying, conspiracy theories, terrorism, lobbying, trade, etc. Mobilisation of troops, Operating cost, radars, Manpower for intelligence, Communication & Satellite costs, back office support cost, mortars, bullets, ammunition, helmets, Guns, Land mines, Jackets, Special equipments, Housing costs, Transport, Fuel for vehicles/ Jets/ Helicopters cost, building bunkers, training, civilian buildings, infrastructure, injuries, Casuality & Disability costs, Medical expenses, Rescue operation costs, all cost money.

Just imagine food expenses every day for the entire soldiers deployed. Just imagine compensations paid to the dead soldier’s family every year. All these are lost continuously at the border apart from soldiers. So bare minimum 2500-3000 crores saved a year if you cut just 50,000 soldiers, simple, simple mathematics. This money can go into education, skill development, factories, dams, roads, infrastructure, social welfare, sports, Science & technology, research, etc.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/365963/pakistan-india-should-withdraw-troops-from-siachen-sharif/

https://www.dawn.com/news/1237803

Well I don’t like to calculate it in the terms of salaries as after both Indian and Pakistani armies are the biggest organizational employers in the respective country. You’d still have to pay them in any other way.

Yes you can estimate the cost in terms of both lives and material. Suppose that in an LoC engagement both sides inflict a loss/cost of $500,000 (hypothetical figure, it can be much more or much less than that) to the other, in hundred engagement this becomes $50 million and in thousand engagement its $500 million. While this may be peanuts for India, it’s significant for Pakistan since it’s a much smaller economy. Plus we face a dilemma of not to hit the population at the other side since they are Kashmiri after all, but India doesn’t cares the same. So a war of attrition is actually affecting us more. At the moment I believe India is doing majority of the ceasefire violations.

Siachen is a useless conflict. I think the goodwill created from Vajpayee’s Lahore yatra would have solved this but Musharraf did the blunder of Kargil bringing it back to square one. The same Musharraf then shook hands with Vajpayee. Unfortunately Agra summit was another great missed opportunity.

Are you implying that Gyari incident was caused by some sort of Laser weapon used by India? Has India developed such capability? As far as I know only US Navy has such weapons but it’s not as massive as to cut whole mountains.

Your argument India is the one not willing to solve, India is one not willing to talk. It’s correct. There was a time India wanted to talk & Pakistan just did not accept our terms & was adamant they want the whole of J&K. Now India is in a far authoritative position. You may not accept it, but that’s truth. You don’t have the balm of a good economy to engage the public with sufficient cash, basic necessities & happiness. You have grave internal problems threatening break up for all sides but you are still worried of getting Kashmir. Traitors are cropping up faster than the monsoon harvest every year. This is not at all a very healthy or good sign. They will bring doom & break up for sure. It’s fast gaining pace & eventually going to explode into a total uncontrollable mess.

India’s economic problems may start near 2025-28 based on the economic stats. We have huge amount of Gold in our country, so situation like yours will take a decade to come. So we have a buffer of time & reserves to hold on, where in we can put in more efforts try new methods to keep pushing this still further.

Pakistan right now is trapped from all sides. Any time riots & civil unrest can break out in your country along with religious fundamentalists blaming the Gov.t & democracy, for all the problems trying to take over Gov.t like Religious fundamentalist did in Iran around early 80’s creating a total tear away of the country’s outlook.

Well our state is trying to make peace, hence the Kartarpur effort, but India has not responded very positively. What I’m rather concerned about is have we reached a stage whereas India as rather started enjoying this conflict. Due to brighter economic prospects, the ability to acquire high-end western (and Russian) military hardware and modernization of forces, India is probably reaching a point where it wants to project its military power globally. Since Pakistan, a country much smaller, weaker and in turmoil has the misfortune of having a conflict-filled history with India, India just wants to use it as a target practice. Through the whole ‘status quo’ thing, India is just playing a waiting game where it can acquire the required weapons and fine tune its military machine to perfection and the gap between two sides further grow.

Unification can solve the problem since both have access to all of Kashmir, but is it practical. “No” if you ask me.

There will be even more religious clashes & terror if we unite. Then how can we solve this. This is the answer you have to find. I know the answer, but you tell me.

Well I think converting LoC into IB, not showing negativity about other country through media and enhancing trade would be a good start. Pakistan can let Indian business have access to its markets. But I believe your solution is Pakistan should drop every guard and come under India’s sphere of influence.

But what you can do First is, take all the mullahs in Pakistan & execute them & close all the Madrasas. If some Mullah or religious fanatic wants to change, handcuff them shave their beards & make them preach there is mistakes in our religious text & ideology. The day all religious leaders united give this statement, slowly the radicalised beliefs & approaches will slowly phase out & change to modern tolerant humanitarian beliefs & approach of common sense will prevail. The Gov.t should pass a law anybody who wish to change the religion have the right to change. Just this law will be welcomed by the international community as a highly positive gesture. It will immediately help you with investments starting to knock for your efforts.

Well after a decade of counter terrorism operations, Pakistan has gained tremendous ability and Mullahs are no threat to the state. You may know about Khadim Rizvi and his ilk who created much hoopla after Asiya bibi’s verdict. They were again planning to take up the streets, Govt. warned them to which they paid no heed, so the state just acted and disappeared them in the thick of the night, they all are now in jail. Pakistan eagerly want to reform Madaris.

Only if you have modern & progressive views a country can develop. You have to let the ladies out if a country has to develop. If you want to control a lady because you think she will go & litter outside, you & your country will keep having negative setbacks.

Muslims don’t know this. A lady is generally patient, soft, forgiving, kind & caring. She is the one who bears most of the pain. Pregnancy, nurturing taking care of child, feeding them, etc. So no house, country will prosper if there is injustice done to a lady, if a lady is unhappy. A lady is the light of the house. A woman cooks for the family generally, so she is like the energy source/electricity. A woman is said to be the caregiver of the house --- it is said that a woman can make or break a family. A house where a woman is always getting angry, upset or irritated never stays happy.

It’s the women who can show case the culture of any country. You cannot put a man to showcase culture. It won’t be sold. Only a lady can give soft power to a country. Only a lady can carry a grace in dancing or singing not men. Put you ladies in the front when you build relation with other countries. Developed countries judge you from how you treat your ladies. You have to take inspiration from countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, Tunisia, Lebanon, Azerbaijan or Turkey if Pakistan needs to grow. Even Bangladesh is growing faster because women have more liberty & freedom. Bangladesh should ideally be in the list since the Bengali Muslims are generally more tolerant than Pakistani and even Indian Muslims.

Well I’m a person who believes that women are actually more talented than men. People say that why historically women didn’t made any advancements in science and invention, to which I believe that they were kept restricted in their roles of giving birth. But since 80s/90s women have made great strides and are catching up pretty fast. But since they posses greater potential, I believe in coming 15-20 years they’ll beat men in probably every single white collared field and occupy higher jobs, they are already outperforming men in many disciplines. Women have better interpersonal skills, are more patient and hardworking.

Before mentioning other Muslim countries you should know that Pakistan was the first Muslim country to have a female prime minister. Unfortunately her government was a failure, maybe her marriage to probably the most corrupt human being on earth brought her bad luck. Her policies were disastrous for the country and are primarily responsible for the energy crises Pakistan went through.

In Pakistan I’ve seen stunning women wearing shades and driving big SUVs, at one point a Porsche Cayenne Turbo. Nobody is stopping them. But yes we also large swathe of conservative land, just like India. Pakistan’s civil service is increasingly being dominated by women to the point that some are saying that it’s becoming a ‘lady service’.

By putting ladies in front to deal with other countries, are you implying that India would be more than happy and comfortable to talk peace with them and strike a deal, just like Hina Khar took India by storm…that’s something that can be pondered on.

Sorry I don’t want to disclose my email id on this forum, but I am open for discussion. I appreciate your attitude. This is the kind of discussion Pakistan should be doing on such forums. It builds relation. The more you post negative about India, they more you get negative. This forum is like a house filled with hatred, jealousy, negative energy & posts filled with negativity. So what should you do.

It’s completely alright; if you change your mind in future you can pm it to me. Well Indian defence forums also dehumanize Pakistanis in a much worse way, so it’s a two way street.

Only a lady can carry a grace in dancing or singing not men.

Michael Jackson disagrees though; his dance, his moonwalkers were poetry in motion, graceful, spell bounding

 

[Sheena1980]

Well I don’t like to calculate it in the terms of salaries as after both Indian and Pakistani armies are the biggest organizational employers in the respective country. You’d still have to pay them in any other way.

Yes you can estimate the cost in terms of both lives and material.

Sorry your post went off my mind as it needs time to reply for such posts.

Intelligence & education standards are much higher in India compared to Pakistan you have to accept & agree. Most Pakistanis including politicians don’t understand or know how economics work.

Of the long previous reply I did, the most important thing was this Salary part. If a common man doesn’t understand this, they don’t understand micro economics. I am not trying to show off or mock you. It's a debate so don't be offended. Just chill.

Coming to the subject, this is the most important of everything I wrote. If economics is not people's main forte or interest, It will be quite time consuming task to explain & make people understand. Anyway I will try my best. You can research Money circulation & also try learn basic economics, how it works.

Let’s understand debt with a small eg; Let’s say you are in a business complex or market where everybody is suffering from lack of business & all are in debts due to that. Let me give a imaginary situation as an eg:

It is the month of January; a resort town sits next to the shores of a lake. It is raining, and the little town looks totally deserted. It is tough times, business is bad, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.

Suddenly, a rich tourist comes to town. He enters one of the few hotels in town. He lays a 100 dollar bill on the reception counter, and goes to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one.

The hotel proprietor takes the 100 dollar bill and runs to pay his debt to the butcher. The Butcher takes the 100 dollar bill and runs to pay his debt to the cattle raiser. The cattle raiser takes the 100 dollar bill and runs to pay his debt to the supplier of his feed and fuel. The supplier of feed and fuel takes the 100 dollar bill and runs to pay his Truck contractor who hired a room in the hotel. The contractor runs to the hotel owner, and pays off his debt with the 100 dollar bill to the hotel proprietor for the room he rented.

The attender engages the tourist & tries hard to convince him to hire the room. The rich tourist comes back after seeing the room not very pleased. The hotel proprietor then lays the 100 dollar bill back on the counter. The rich tourist takes his 100 dollar bill, after saying he did not like any of the rooms, and goes out to look for another one.

No one earned anything. However, the whole surrounding is without debt now, and looks to the future with a lot of optimism. If same happens in the next hotel or even if he hired the room the result will be same. So bottom line is Money need to be there for circulation, business need to be there for circulation for economy to prosper.

Who’s the character of the rich man for the country now. This character is the Gov.t, Bank who lends money (loans) to the needy or it can be a FDI, so money circulates in the system. But when there is no money with the Gov.t there is no circulation. So debts will remain & only increase.

You are saying if you lay of soldiers they will earn somewhere else, so it won’t make a difference. No Military spending is a loss to the Gov.t, it drains your reserves. Money goes out of your savings/reserves & you get nothing in return. Does the soldier give back any product for the Gov.t to recover the Salary money. So it's only one side flow. Infact you get more losses if violence & tensions prevail, which drains more savings from your a/c. An economy grows when both side earns from the investment, the employee & the employer. Like I gave an eg; instead of having tension with your neighbor & waste 2,500-3,000 crores for 50,000 soldiers, if they invest the money in factory – the business owner makes money, he pays taxes & if he’s makes more profits, his workforce will increase, he may start another factory which in turn bring more employment, more taxes, more money in circulation, more savings in the bank, where Bank does more lending leading to further spinning of money for creating more business & opportunities.

This will lead to more usage of roads – Gov.t can invest the money in roads which will bring in more sales of vehicles, more money in road tax, tolls & fuel charges & more employment. Road construction workers get work, they pay tax. If roads are good other town & city people would travel for business & exploring opportunities in turn adding to the economic money supply & growth if they start doing business. If your infrastructure is good & foreigners can see opportunity you can get FDI or existing business can be taken over by a Multi National company. So a 50 crore worth co. could be taken over by a big investor for 500 crores due to brand name & value created. So what would this guy who sold would do with the new extra money again invest in several more businesses, so more spending. One person’s spending is another person’s income. So Gov.t needs to make people spend more for it to make money & grow, but if people don’t have money how will they spend.

When individuals make money they spend, they buy TV, Bike, Car, house. One person’s income gives income to other sector. So if bike sales increase, the bike owner & workers go buy more TV, more cars, more essentials. They will send their children for education, so on & so forth. Remember salaries paid to soldiers are even income tax free. This is another big income for the Govt. Co. Registration tax, Professional tax & Income tax. If you have sufficient money, you eat good food, you go to doctor to take care of health. A healthy person contributes more to the economy. Doctor, lawyers are in business. If an normal employee or citizen dies on a road accident, it’s not Gov.t’s responsibility or loss, but if a soldier dies it’s Gov.t’s responsibility & loss by means of compensation paid. Not to forget canteen facilities & pension life long.

It’s time consuming to explain in detail. I hope this explanation gives you a rough picture. A country should spend on Military with their disposable money not with borrowed money.

I will answer to rest of your post after some time. Need time to think & reply.

 

[Sheena1980]

Well then we have to wait till the end of the year to see if his prediction really comes true or not. LoC conflict could become a bigger issue since India is going through an election year. At the moment it seems like Modi can even lose the election or a hung parliament will be formed. A heated conflict at LoC would probably give Modi a huge lifeline due to injecting nationalistic adrenaline in India. So Pakistan will probably make every effort to avoid that.

Definitely Politics has a part to play in India Pakistan relation & the borders. Mention of Pakistan is like a pinch of another masala added to the big curry to give it an additional flavour. It’s not a deciding factor for parties to win election as Pakistan dramatises in its media. In politics & democracy your words & actions can back fire, if you don’t factor in all the pros & cons as the opposition is waiting for you to make a mistake or a blunder statement. So Pakistan bashing is not a election winning formula. One possible reason for activating LOC can also be to keep the terror crossers at bay so they don’t target political rallies & voters turn out to disrupt the election. The LOC violations could be from Pakistan to infiltrate terrorists to disrupt elections.

Pakistan has the potential to collect Rs. 8000 billion in taxes whereas at the moment it's only collecting around Rs. 4500 billion. So it has started taxing the elite which doesn't pay taxes. Better policies are in pipeline.

It’s a good move, but new party new politicians have this tendency to overdo things due to josh & inexperience. Imposing a law which impacts the common man’s pocket in already tough times will only make people’s life more miserable. If a layman’s income is growing from past year, that is the ultimate benchmark to approve the leadership. The same voters will be frustrated & angry if their bread & butter is snatched or made more difficult to earn. So any new law needs to be introduced in small measures & slowly increase it seeing the impact, if not it will turn into a disaster like we had demonetization & GST in India. A vast majority of people in the subcontinent is already fighting to make ends meet. They have to work really hard to support their family & when you impose new laws & it inconveniences people or makes it harder or ends up even losing what he’s getting now, the short term gain can turn into a long term disaster.

Well I don’t think so. Imran Khan is the type of soul who is born and made for work. If he was a lesser man he’d given up long ago against the entrenched mafias of Nawaz league and People’s Party (as Hassan Nisar calls them). Just 130 days in the government and he already chaired 14-15 cabinet meetings, in comparison the lazy Sharif only did 39 meeting in his 4 years and that too when he was pleaded to do so. At the moment the bureaucracy, which was partner in crime with previous regimes is trying to create hurdles in his way by going slow since Imran wants to overhaul bureaucracy, but he’s gradually overcoming them.

Imran Khan is a naturally hardworking man, very optimistic, and with an incredible self belief. His life is a quintessential example of a man who overcomes adversary against all odds. After he became captain of team he only took one day off practice, the day his mother died. So him losing motivation or having a nervous breakdown is totally out of the question.

He seems to display determination & passion compared to most of your previous Gov.ts I think. But if your economy is in doldrums & at the verge of collapse, even if you have a very sincere leadership, the ground doesn’t turn into an easy rose bed to prosperity. A hardworking person will be happy & optimistic, when you see positive results after your effort, but if he/she sees the economy still sliding instead of moving up or forward, it can break their confidence & willpower is what I mentioned. Right now it’s like people are trapped on a sinking ship & Imran Khan is made the captain of the ship because the previous leadership caused the leak in the ship. So only quick action & sacrifices can save the ship but it has to be right action. Emotional & experimental policies/decisions/actions can worsen the situation. You need innovation, thinking out of the box, fixing the root by doing a thorough RCA & fast.

I personally belong to the camp who believe LoC should be converted into International Border. Suppose you militarily take Kashmir and GB do you think that would solve the problem. People of GB are in fact quite patriotic and demanding the Pakistani govt to give them official provincial status. Even if you annex GB you will face a problem far larger than what you face in Kashmir valley. Plus Pakistan has water requirements and its survival lies in the building of dams to conserve water, otherwise it’ll become an increasingly water scarce country. If LoC becomes IB then people on your side of Kashmir will also calm down since the notion of an independent Kashmir will go away. But I think India is not even willing to do that and is happy with status quo.

This was exactly what India had continuously offered Pakistan in the past especially after 1965 war. For decades every leadership proposed let us both make the LOC international border & get it done with it. You could have done it after 1971 break up, but even after Shimla Agreement you ego could not come to terms with your failures, it was back to square one & infact your leadership imposed more rigorous Hindu hatred & Islamic policy experimentation. You continued with your threatening & pestering attitude. Majority of Indians had this opinion of peace & making LOC international boundary till the turn of this century. The 80's & 90's were literally a very painful & demotivating times for the country. We were continuously seeing bloodshed & violence one after the other - LTTE, Khalistan was backed & funded by Pakistan. On the other side China was sponsoring Maoists. In 91 we had the economic crisis & total meltdown & somehow we had Gold to pledge so we escaped, but that opened our economic eyes. But Pakistan continued even more intensely with terrorist infiltration in to Kashmir. Kargil made lot of Indians frustrated with the Pakistan's arrogant & bullying attitude. 2001 parliament attack brought many Indian’s mind to a tit for tat neutral position, but after 2008 terror attack, the present generation wants force to be used against Pakistan & destroy it to solve the 70 + years of suffering once & for all permanently & most people want to wrest not only the occupied part of Kashmir from Pakistan now but the whole of Pakistan if they impose another war.

 

[Sheena1980]

Suppose that in an LoC engagement both sides inflict a loss/cost of $500,000 (hypothetical figure, it can be much more or much less than that) to the other, in hundred engagement this becomes $50 million and in thousand engagement its $500 million. While this may be peanuts for India, it’s significant for Pakistan since it’s a much smaller economy. Plus we face a dilemma of not to hit the population at the other side since they are Kashmiri after all, but India doesn’t cares the same. So a war of attrition is actually affecting us more. At the moment I believe India is doing majority of the ceasefire violations.

Siachen is a useless conflict. I think the goodwill created from Vajpayee’s Lahore yatra would have solved this but Musharraf did the blunder of Kargil bringing it back to square one. The same Musharraf then shook hands with Vajpayee. Unfortunately Agra summit was another great missed opportunity.

Yes, LOC & Siachen drains money on both sides. Worst is soldiers deployed in such inhumane conditions. Soldiers in our side say to officers, Sir send me to war, send me to face the bullets of enemy & I would be happy to take any bullet & die one shot, but don’t send me to Siachen. It’s really sad these people have to go through this painful torture just for a stupid ego & enmity of 2 countries. It’s not the politicians, not the officers who have to face this hardship it’s the poor soldier.

Are you implying that Gyari incident was caused by some sort of Laser weapon used by India? Has India developed such capability? As far as I know only US Navy has such weapons but it’s not as massive as to cut whole mountains.

Yes when Pakistan sort the help of experienced International engineers who had come for the rescue activities. It was interpreted by these engineers the avalanche is possibly not natural. So when scientists started probing other possibilities the likelihood of Indian involvement was debated. They studied all possible satellite images & other proofs & India’s KALI is the strong possible suspect speculated though nobody fully confirmed it.

Don’t know if Pakistani Gov.t & establishment hushed the truth due to backlash from public. Indian Gov.t or military did not give any confirmation to the claims though later few Indians claimed in personal blogs & media articles, it was true. KALI is still a secret but it has been in development since 1984. Only thing we know is for each use it’s quite expensive to operate such a gigantic device. So they are working on finding substitute solutions to reduce the operating cost.

Well our state is trying to make peace, hence the Kartarpur effort, but India has not responded very positively. What I’m rather concerned about is have we reached a stage whereas India as rather started enjoying this conflict. Due to brighter economic prospects, the ability to acquire high-end western (and Russian) military hardware and modernization of forces, India is probably reaching a point where it wants to project its military power globally. Since Pakistan, a country much smaller, weaker and in turmoil has the misfortune of having a conflict-filled history with India, India just wants to use it as a target practice. Through the whole ‘status quo’ thing, India is just playing a waiting game where it can acquire the required weapons and fine tune its military machine to perfection and the gap between two sides further grow.

It’s definitely a good move, but Pakistan Gov.t should have made the efforts on Hindu religious areas & addressing Hindu community first. The Kartarpur affair is looked from a suspicious perspective of trying to appease the Sikhs to create Hindu Sikh friction.

Well I think converting LoC into IB, not showing negativity about other country through media and enhancing trade would be a good start. Pakistan can let Indian business have access to its markets. But I believe your solution is Pakistan should drop every guard and come under India’s sphere of influence.

Yes Trade would definitely help. But stopping to take Kashmir in international forums would definitely help as Pakistan needs to realise nobody really cares or bothers these comments anymore.

Pakistan can drop every guard and come under India’s sphere of influence if they wish. My solution is something else. In this solution Pakistan doesn’t have to join India, Pakistan doesn’t have to surrender & accept India as a boss & Pakistan doesn’t have to go to war. It’s possible – Kashmir will solve on its own & we will have borders like Nepal & Bhutan where there is hardly any military at the borders. It will be max a few hundreds. Pakistanis & Indians can drive into each country like going to friend’s house & coming back. Investments will pour into Pakistan from not only India but from across the world. It’s a tough mental decision to be made, which will not cross many politicians or think tanks mind. I won’t say what it’s. It’s for you to think but it’s the easiest way out of your misery instantly. My answer hint is in the same original post to which you replied.

Well I’m a person who believes that women are actually more talented than men. People say that why historically women didn’t made any advancements in science and invention, to which I believe that they were kept restricted in their roles of giving birth. But since 80s/90s women have made great strides and are catching up pretty fast. But since they posses greater potential, I believe in coming 15-20 years they’ll beat men in probably every single white collared field and occupy higher jobs, they are already outperforming men in many disciplines. Women have better interpersonal skills, are more patient and hardworking.

Before mentioning other Muslim countries you should know that Pakistan was the first Muslim country to have a female prime minister. Unfortunately her government was a failure, maybe her marriage to probably the most corrupt human being on earth brought her bad luck. Her policies were disastrous for the country and are primarily responsible for the energy crises Pakistan went through.

In Pakistan I’ve seen stunning women wearing shades and driving big SUVs, at one point a Porsche Cayenne Turbo. Nobody is stopping them. But yes we also large swathe of conservative land, just like India. Pakistan’s civil service is increasingly being dominated by women to the point that some are saying that it’s becoming a ‘lady service’.

By putting ladies in front to deal with other countries, are you implying that India would be more than happy and comfortable to talk peace with them and strike a deal, just like Hina Khar took India by storm…that’s something that can be pondered on.

Benazir is from a Bhutto family. I am talking about a common citizen. Allow the girls to work. Every co. should be given a quota system to employ 20-30% women at least to begin with. Women should be given education. It should be campaigned at every media & home. They have to be encouraged in sports at school level. You should have women leaders at work & religious leaders, etc.

You are right about Hina Rabbani. She was young & beautiful too. These kind of people make men control their ego & listen rather start a fight. The best part was she could speak & she had good sense of how relationship, diplomacy & foreign policy works.

 

[Sheena1980]

It’s completely alright; if you change your mind in future you can pm it to me. Well Indian defence forums also dehumanize Pakistanis in a much worse way, so it’s a two way street.

Michael Jackson disagrees though; his dance, his moonwalkers were poetry in motion, graceful, spell bounding

You are right even Indian forums do it, I won’t deny. But right now Pakistan is weak, they need to put up with the behavior. I am not saying this because I enjoy it or I want you to submit to me. No, I am saying act wisely, when you are weak & wounded, stay quiet & try to manage the enemy with diplomacy. You have internal problems, economic problems & border problems from all sides.

Regarding Michael Jackson – He’s a singer, an artist. That’s talent. I am not talking men can’t dance. I was talking in general. If you randomly call 10 boys & 10 girls to dance, the dance of the girls will mostly be pleasing than the boys. Many boys will look like Joker buffoons when they dance.

Go full screen to watch the above videos. Infact there are better dancers than Michael Jackson in India. Many people across the wold watch Allu Arjun & Jr NTR songs just for their dance talent. They are not even from Bollywood.

I am talking about cultural exchange & women dancing in general. Classical dance you have to put women in the front, it catches people’s eyes & imagination.

 

[Sheena1980]

Pakistan’s growth rate in the fiscal year ending in June 2018 was 5.8%, the highest in 13 years. For the current fiscal year the expectations are that it will be closer to 3%. Inflation today is the highest in six years, and interest rates have been driven to double-digit levels with the Pakistani rupee depreciating 34% in 12 months. There is a growing balance of payments crisis, with exports stagnant and imports still rising, along with a fiscal deficit of more than 6% of GDP. The stock market has fallen, as have investor confidence and ratings of the economy.

Foreign direct investment has fallen drastically since early 2018. The China Pakistan-Economic Corridor (CPEC), which was touted as Pakistan’s ‘Marshall Plan’, seems to have completely gone off the radar for now, as the Chinese rethink their strategy for Pakistan. Knowing all this, Mr. Khan and his finance and economic team have done little to stabilize Pakistan’s economy, to draw a strategy to address these exacerbating problems. He has done the same of getting loans like previous governments. I understand your economy needs loan, but he's not doing anything to even save jobs leave alone create jobs. I have read big investment claims from Saudi, UAE even Russia. Unless it comes in for real & unless it reflects in your economic figures, stats reveal absolutely no improvement so far after Imran took over as PM. Infact it looks negative.

 

[Ocelot]

Sorry your post went off my mind as it needs time to reply for such posts.

Intelligence & education standards are much higher in India compared to Pakistan you have to accept & agree. Most Pakistanis including politicians don’t understand or know how economics work.

Of the long previous reply I did, the most important thing was this Salary part. If a common man doesn’t understand this, they don’t understand micro economics. I am not trying to show off or mock you. It's a debate so don't be offended. Just chill.

Coming to the subject, this is the most important of everything I wrote. If economics is not people's main forte or interest, It will be quite time consuming task to explain & make people understand. Anyway I will try my best. You can research Money circulation & also try learn basic economics, how it works.

Let’s understand debt with a small eg; Let’s say you are in a business complex or market where everybody is suffering from lack of business & all are in debts due to that. Let me give a imaginary situation as an eg:

It is the month of January; a resort town sits next to the shores of a lake. It is raining, and the little town looks totally deserted. It is tough times, business is bad, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.

Suddenly, a rich tourist comes to town. He enters one of the few hotels in town. He lays a 100 dollar bill on the reception counter, and goes to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one.

The hotel proprietor takes the 100 dollar bill and runs to pay his debt to the butcher. The Butcher takes the 100 dollar bill and runs to pay his debt to the cattle raiser. The cattle raiser takes the 100 dollar bill and runs to pay his debt to the supplier of his feed and fuel. The supplier of feed and fuel takes the 100 dollar bill and runs to pay his Truck contractor who hired a room in the hotel. The contractor runs to the hotel owner, and pays off his debt with the 100 dollar bill to the hotel proprietor for the room he rented.

The attender engages the tourist & tries hard to convince him to hire the room. The rich tourist comes back after seeing the room not very pleased. The hotel proprietor then lays the 100 dollar bill back on the counter. The rich tourist takes his 100 dollar bill, after saying he did not like any of the rooms, and goes out to look for another one.

No one earned anything. However, the whole surrounding is without debt now, and looks to the future with a lot of optimism. If same happens in the next hotel or even if he hired the room the result will be same. So bottom line is Money need to be there for circulation, business need to be there for circulation for economy to prosper.

Who’s the character of the rich man for the country now. This character is the Gov.t, Bank who lends money (loans) to the needy or it can be a FDI, so money circulates in the system. But when there is no money with the Gov.t there is no circulation. So debts will remain & only increase.

You are saying if you lay of soldiers they will earn somewhere else, so it won’t make a difference. No Military spending is a loss to the Gov.t, it drains your reserves. Money goes out of your savings/reserves & you get nothing in return. Does the soldier give back any product for the Gov.t to recover the Salary money. So it's only one side flow. Infact you get more losses if violence & tensions prevail, which drains more savings from your a/c. An economy grows when both side earns from the investment, the employee & the employer. Like I gave an eg; instead of having tension with your neighbor & waste 2,500-3,000 crores for 50,000 soldiers, if they invest the money in factory – the business owner makes money, he pays taxes & if he’s makes more profits, his workforce will increase, he may start another factory which in turn bring more employment, more taxes, more money in circulation, more savings in the bank, where Bank does more lending leading to further spinning of money for creating more business & opportunities.

This will lead to more usage of roads – Gov.t can invest the money in roads which will bring in more sales of vehicles, more money in road tax, tolls & fuel charges & more employment. Road construction workers get work, they pay tax. If roads are good other town & city people would travel for business & exploring opportunities in turn adding to the economic money supply & growth if they start doing business. If your infrastructure is good & foreigners can see opportunity you can get FDI or existing business can be taken over by a Multi National company. So a 50 crore worth co. could be taken over by a big investor for 500 crores due to brand name & value created. So what would this guy who sold would do with the new extra money again invest in several more businesses, so more spending. One person’s spending is another person’s income. So Gov.t needs to make people spend more for it to make money & grow, but if people don’t have money how will they spend.

When individuals make money they spend, they buy TV, Bike, Car, house. One person’s income gives income to other sector. So if bike sales increase, the bike owner & workers go buy more TV, more cars, more essentials. They will send their children for education, so on & so forth. Remember salaries paid to soldiers are even income tax free. This is another big income for the Govt. Co. Registration tax, Professional tax & Income tax. If you have sufficient money, you eat good food, you go to doctor to take care of health. A healthy person contributes more to the economy. Doctor, lawyers are in business. If an normal employee or citizen dies on a road accident, it’s not Gov.t’s responsibility or loss, but if a soldier dies it’s Gov.t’s responsibility & loss by means of compensation paid. Not to forget canteen facilities & pension life long.

It’s time consuming to explain in detail. I hope this explanation gives you a rough picture. A country should spend on Military with their disposable money not with borrowed money.

I will answer to rest of your post after some time. Need time to think & reply.

I won't say the same for cow belt Indians, but I agree that south Indian are definitely smarter than Pakistanis. I think our private school system is as good as any, but our public school system is definitely in shambles and require massive investment. It mostly emphasizes on rote learning instead of imparting critical thinking. We have different systems of education prevailing in our country, which creates polarization, but current wants to enforce a uniform syllabus. I don’t know how good Indian public education system is, I doubt it would be much different than ours, and probably employ same archaic teaching techniques.

Yes most Pakistanis are oblivious to the understanding of economics, but interest has been generated in past years, just like that of Indians from 90s onwards. I understand your example for money circulation and agree that spending on defence has a very high opportunity cost, you can utilize funds in more productive and wealth generating areas, but in that case it would be more appropriate to stop arms import rather than looking through the lens of salaries, and due to the threat matrix we have I don't think we really have a choice here either.

The soldiers are better trained and are more resilient to harsh weathers, in case of natural disasters our countries look up to them, since we don’t have effective disaster management institutions. Pakistan army kept th country together during the disastrous 2010 floods. You have to call army for Kashmir, Tamil Nadu and Kerala floods in recent years. So the point is that, benefits exceed costs.

Definitely Politics has a part to play in India Pakistan relation & the borders. Mention of Pakistan is like a pinch of another masala added to the big curry to give it an additional flavour. It’s not a deciding factor for parties to win election as Pakistan dramatises in its media. In politics & democracy your words & actions can back fire, if you don’t factor in all the pros & cons as the opposition is waiting for you to make a mistake or a blunder statement. So Pakistan bashing is not a election winning formula. One possible reason for activating LOC can also be to keep the terror crossers at bay so they don’t target political rallies & voters turn out to disrupt the election. The LOC violations could be from Pakistan to infiltrate terrorists to disrupt elections.

If some Uri like incident happens now, don’t you believe it will immensely help Mr. Modi during elections? I believe he will up the ante, March & April will be hard months, but after elections and with formation of new govt, relations b/w India and Pak will improve.

It’s a good move, but new party new politicians have this tendency to overdo things due to josh & inexperience. Imposing a law which impacts the common man’s pocket in already tough times will only make people’s life more miserable. If a layman’s income is growing from past year, that is the ultimate benchmark to approve the leadership. The same voters will be frustrated & angry if their bread & butter is snatched or made more difficult to earn. So any new law needs to be introduced in small measures & slowly increase it seeing the impact, if not it will turn into a disaster like we had demonetization & GST in India. A vast majority of people in the subcontinent is already fighting to make ends meet. They have to work really hard to support their family & when you impose new laws & it inconveniences people or makes it harder or ends up even losing what he’s getting now, the short term gain can turn into a long term disaster.

Pakistan’s issue is that only 25% of total tax revenue is collected through direct tax, rest is collected through indirect tax. Indirect tax mostly affects the poor and snatches their bread & butter. Pakistan has a sales tax rate of 17% which is abnormally high and affects the poor, but still the country doesn’t tax the agriculture income since most of the lawmakers have been feudals. Pak’s tax system is the most complicated in the world, with 40+ types of taxes. The Govt. want to decrease them to 13. Probably we’ll see a shift now.

They’re presenting a mini-budget on 23rd January and are saying that it will be very helpful to the industry. Let’s see what they bring to the table.

He seems to display determination & passion compared to most of your previous Gov.ts I think. But if your economy is in doldrums & at the verge of collapse, even if you have a very sincere leadership, the ground doesn’t turn into an easy rose bed to prosperity. A hardworking person will be happy & optimistic, when you see positive results after your effort, but if he/she sees the economy still sliding instead of moving up or forward, it can break their confidence & willpower is what I mentioned. Right now it’s like people are trapped on a sinking ship & Imran Khan is made the captain of the ship because the previous leadership caused the leak in the ship. So only quick action & sacrifices can save the ship but it has to be right action. Emotional & experimental policies/decisions/actions can worsen the situation. You need innovation, thinking out of the box, fixing the root by doing a thorough RCA & fast.

I don’t believe any learnt person is in doubt that it’ll take Pakistan at least 2-3 years to get the economy back on track and escape the debt trap. Only issue is people are impatient and emotional and want overnight change, they want sudden relief and can’t sacrifice a bit.

This was exactly what India had continuously offered Pakistan in the past especially after 1965 war. For decades every leadership proposed let us both make the LOC international border & get it done with it. You could have done it after 1971 break up, but even after Shimla Agreement you ego could not come to terms with your failures, it was back to square one & infact your leadership imposed more rigorous Hindu hatred & Islamic policy experimentation. You continued with your threatening & pestering attitude. Majority of Indians had this opinion of peace & making LOC international boundary till the turn of this century. The 80's & 90's were literally a very painful & demotivating times for the country. We were continuously seeing bloodshed & violence one after the other - LTTE, Khalistan was backed & funded by Pakistan. On the other side China was sponsoring Maoists. In 91 we had the economic crisis & total meltdown & somehow we had Gold to pledge so we escaped, but that opened our economic eyes. But Pakistan continued even more intensely with terrorist infiltration in to Kashmir. Kargil made lot of Indians frustrated with the Pakistan's arrogant & bullying attitude. 2001 parliament attack brought many Indian’s mind to a tit for tat neutral position, but after 2008 terror attack, the present generation wants force to be used against Pakistan & destroy it to solve the 70 + years of suffering once & for all permanently & most people want to wrest not only the occupied part of Kashmir from Pakistan now but the whole of Pakistan if they impose another war.

That’s’ a pity then. Pakistanis don’t hate Indians in the same token the way Indians think they do. In fact any Indian who visited Pakistan took back with them good memories, case in point: India-Pak cricket series of 2004. It’s also a pity that India stopped showing Pakistani dramas in India, which were helping in improving a soft image of the country. I think we'll get around this Kashmir problem but after your Lok Sabha elections.

Pakistanis seem to love Indians. Do Indians feel the same way?

Yes, LOC & Siachen drains money on both sides. Worst is soldiers deployed in such inhumane conditions. Soldiers in our side say to officers, Sir send me to war, send me to face the bullets of enemy & I would be happy to take any bullet & die one shot, but don’t send me to Siachen. It’s really sad these people have to go through this painful torture just for a stupid ego & enmity of 2 countries. It’s not the politicians, not the officers who have to face this hardship it’s the poor soldier.

Frankly Siachen was India’s initiative when Pakistan was already busy with a war on its western front, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. India was very belligerent throughout 80s. Kargil was also a continuation of Siachen war, even though the timing was very wrong.

Yes when Pakistan sort the help of experienced International engineers who had come for the rescue activities. It was interpreted by these engineers the avalanche is possibly not natural. So when scientists started probing other possibilities the likelihood of Indian involvement was debated. They studied all possible satellite images & other proofs & India’s KALI is the strong possible suspect speculated though nobody fully confirmed it.

Don’t know if Pakistani Gov.t & establishment hushed the truth due to backlash from public. Indian Gov.t or military did not give any confirmation to the claims though later few Indians claimed in personal blogs & media articles, it was true. KALI is still a secret but it has been in development since 1984. Only thing we know is for each use it’s quite expensive to operate such a gigantic device. So they are working on finding substitute solutions to reduce the operating cost.

Interesting. It looks like a very lethal weapon. I don’t know why India would find the need to develop it when it already has nuclear bombs and at that point in time its economy wasn’t strong either. However it being used during Gyari incident seems conjecture at best with no information from any western sources. However, I’ll look into KALI in detail later.

The videos were painful to watch due to computerized voices.

It’s definitely a good move, but Pakistan Gov.t should have made the efforts on Hindu religious areas & addressing Hindu community first. The Kartarpur affair is looked from a suspicious perspective of trying to appease the Sikhs to create Hindu Sikh friction.

No it wasn’t a googly in any sense. Imran Khan didn’t endorsed any such statements and considered Kartarpur initiative genuine and for peace building. As for hindus:

Visas issued to 220 Indian pilgrims to participate in Hindu temple celebrations in Sukkur

Yes Trade would definitely help. But stopping to take Kashmir in international forums would definitely help as Pakistan needs to realise nobody really cares or bothers these comments anymore.

Pakistan can drop every guard and come under India’s sphere of influence if they wish. My solution is something else. In this solution Pakistan doesn’t have to join India, Pakistan doesn’t have to surrender & accept India as a boss & Pakistan doesn’t have to go to war. It’s possible – Kashmir will solve on its own & we will have borders like Ne

pal & Bhutan where there is hardly any military at the borders. It will be max a few hundreds. Pakistanis & Indians can drive into each country like going to friend’s house & coming back. Investments will pour into Pakistan from not only India but from across the world. It’s a tough mental decision to be made, which will not cross many politicians or think tanks mind. I won’t say what it’s. It’s for you to think but it’s the easiest way out of your misery instantly. My answer hint is in the same original post to which you replied.

I don’t know why you despise Islam so much. Islam also has a spiritual side to it, and Pakistan in essence is a spiritual country. It’s a land of Ali Hajvery, Shah Rukn e Alam, Abdullah Shah Ghazi, Lal Shehbaz Qalandar, Ghulam Fareed, Bahaudin Zikeriya. People converted to Islam due to these people.

If interested, you can read this book: Islam & the Destiny of Man - Gai Eaton

I’ve nothing against Hindus, but your point that things will be alright if Pakistan ditches Islam is rather illogical.

You are right even Indian forums do it, I won’t deny. But right now Pakistan is weak, they need to put up with the behavior. I am not saying this because I enjoy it or I want you to submit to me. No, I am saying act wisely, when you are weak & wounded, stay quiet & try to manage the enemy with diplomacy. You have internal problems, economic problems & border problems from all sides.

Very good point. I wonder which country or culture will put up with such a behavior even if they’re weak. I guess Japan can be counted as one towards America after WW2. I’m glad that you don’t want me to submit, even though judging from your usual hard-hitting responses it’s not very hard for you. xD

Regarding Michael Jackson – He’s a singer, an artist. That’s talent. I am not talking men can’t dance. I was talking in general. If you randomly call 10 boys & 10 girls to dance, the dance of the girls will mostly be pleasing than the boys. Many boys will look like Joker buffoons when they dance.

Go full screen to watch the above videos. Infact there are better dancers than Michael Jackson in India. Many people across the wold watch Allu Arjun & Jr NTR songs just for their dance talent. They are not even from Bollywood.

I am talking about cultural exchange & women dancing in general. Classical dance you have to put women in the front, it catches people’s eyes & imagination.

I’m not that into dancing or even pop culture that much, so I don’t really watch movies or tv shows based on the art of dancing. But I agree with you that women in general have aesthetically pleasing dances.

 

[Ocelot]

Pakistan’s growth rate in the fiscal year ending in June 2018 was 5.8%, the highest in 13 years. For the current fiscal year the expectations are that it will be closer to 3%. Inflation today is the highest in six years, and interest rates have been driven to double-digit levels with the Pakistani rupee depreciating 34% in 12 months. There is a growing balance of payments crisis, with exports stagnant and imports still rising, along with a fiscal deficit of more than 6% of GDP. The stock market has fallen, as have investor confidence and ratings of the economy.

Foreign direct investment has fallen drastically since early 2018. The China Pakistan-Economic Corridor (CPEC), which was touted as Pakistan’s ‘Marshall Plan’, seems to have completely gone off the radar for now, as the Chinese rethink their strategy for Pakistan. Knowing all this, Mr. Khan and his finance and economic team have done little to stabilize Pakistan’s economy, to draw a strategy to address these exacerbating problems. He has done the same of getting loans like previous governments. I understand your economy needs loan, but he's not doing anything to even save jobs leave alone create jobs. I have read big investment claims from Saudi, UAE even Russia. Unless it comes in for real & unless it reflects in your economic figures, stats reveal absolutely no improvement so far after Imran took over as PM. Infact it looks negative.

View attachment 533776

If you're saying that Rupee is gonna fall further then I'll take it very seriously. But that growth of 5.8% came at the back of a very high fiscal deficit. Government kept borrowing from banks and crowded out the private sector. What you're stating was bound to happen. Do the red blocks represent strengthening of rupee with respect to dollar? At this point we're expecting massive investment from Saudi Arabia, MBS is expected to arrive next month. For CPEC, we're departing from infrastructural development phase to setting up Chinese industries in Special Economic Zones. Investments will pick up pace since the investors held back due to uncertainity caused by rupee devaliation. These two articles will be of interest to you:

The economy in 2019
Good news, bad news