The weapon that could defeat the US in the Gulf

[lulldapull]

Lulldapull most of those pics are from march 2003 not the insurgency and some are from GW1 and almost all are duplicates of the same tanks and helicopters over and over again.

No matter how you try and convey your fantasies the truth remains that the US Army and USMC have not been turned back or defeated in a battle even 1 time in Iraq and the US is losing about 750 people a year the insurgents are losing 10-20 times that number per year and thats only becuase the US is holding back from total war. The insurgecny is also giving the US the reason it needs to take action agaisnt Iran. Every American service person killed with weapons smuggle din by the Pasadran is on emore reason for the US to send in its stealth planes the day after we leave Iraq and flatten Iran and turn the country into a poverty stricken broken nation.

Yes Hezzbollah stopped the IDF, but it was an IDF that was overconfident, poorly trained, and unsupported. Tanks are a combine darms tool, sending them into the hills alone is asking for anti-armor ambushes like what occured.

And while Hezzbollah stopped the IDF is did not defeat it. Hezzbollah failed to show any ability to resupply, move or communciate. It fought and often died in place, and at waht cost. In terms of combatants it lost roughly twice as many fightersas the IDF lost soldiers. in terms of civillians the scale isn't even close. Thousands of lebanese died beucase hezzbollah used them as shields and to gain politcal points, this vs a couple dozen Israelies. Lebanon lost billions in damages and lost revenue. And while the world was fixated on lebanon the IDF had a feild day in Gaza and the west bank freed from the news camera's watchful eye.

Thats a hell of a price to pay, luckily for hezzbollah they have no problem letting other people blood pay thier bills. And people in the Islamic world call them hereos.

Raver.....Now the more you regurgitate terrorist Bush type bullshiit propaganda, the more you crack me up. Has it ever occurred to you that due to the sheer inability on the part of the IDF to inflict any type of casualties on the Hezb was the main reason to go around and bomb civilians in Beirut and the north of the country? no ??? Hezbollah wasn't hiding in Beirut 100 miles away when those Merkava's got plopped in the mountains? It was your terrorist and zionist buddies who were bombing civilians.

Quit getting delusional on me now.

 

[zraver]

Raver.....Now the more you regurgitate terrorist Bush type bullshiit propaganda, the more you crack me up. Has it ever occurred to you that due to the sheer inability on the part of the IDF to inflict any type of casualties on the Hezb was the main reason to go around and bomb civilians in Beirut and the north of the country? no ??? Hezbollah wasn't hiding in Beirut 100 miles away when those Merkava's got plopped in the mountains? It was your terrorist and zionist buddies who were bombing civilians.

Quit getting delusional on me now.

You should watch some of the videos taken during the war showing hezzie trucks pulling into residential courtyards firign a coupl eod rockets off and then trying to drive away.nHezzbollah wa smost definatrely in Beruit, they are part of the Lebanese goverment and control vast parts of the city and have since the late 70's.

Also have you forgotten that Hezzbollah started the war, as an offical arm of the lebanese goverment, thier acxtions took Lebanon to war not just Hezzbollah. This wasn't fair to the Lebanese people, but it was Hezzbollah not Israel who brought the war.

 

[lulldapull]

You should watch some of the videos taken during the war showing hezzie trucks pulling into residential courtyards firign a coupl eod rockets off and then trying to drive away.nHezzbollah wa smost definatrely in Beruit, they are part of the Lebanese goverment and control vast parts of the city and have since the late 70's.

Also have you forgotten that Hezzbollah started the war, as an offical arm of the lebanese goverment, thier acxtions took Lebanon to war not just Hezzbollah. This wasn't fair to the Lebanese people, but it was Hezzbollah not Israel who brought the war.

Try looking at the Map of Lebanon, and see how far Beirut is from southern Lebanon's battle lines. unless you are thinking that hezb tried attacking the now vacant Marine barracks again with the 'Odd rocket'???

 

[A.Rahman]

Also have you forgotten that Hezzbollah started the war, as an offical arm of the lebanese goverment, thier acxtions took Lebanon to war not just Hezzbollah. This wasn't fair to the Lebanese people, but it was Hezzbollah not Israel who brought the war.

Israeli started the war by shelling & killing the family on the beach; also there are various kidnapped civilians in Israeli prison; how come no one ever talks about them?

 

[sigatoka]

1. No US Army or USMC force has yet been turned back, stopped, repulsed or defeated in the feild not even once. 3000 dead 20,000 wounded vs 40,000 dead and uncounted wounded.

2. The insurgents with thier great Iranian training are trading at better than 10-1 in lives, thats not a winning bet.

3- Unlike the insurgents China has very clearly defined and easily targeted centers of gravity that can rapidly paralyize it. Just how many critical rail bridges, and telephone exchanges, and riverdam ship locks do you have to hit to effectively cut china is half?


4. The Chinese fanboys fail to graps the fact that the US practices stragtegic bombing (as opposed to carpet bombing) and goes after enemy centers of gravity witha vengance.

1. U.S. forces were forced out of Fallujah two times, Anbar province specifically and Iraq generally has become a balloon of a problem, where ever the U.S. military squeezes the balloon expands in another area. You are also exaggerating that U.S. forces have never been stopped or forced out of areas, there are countless towns and cities in Iraq that U.S. forces were forced to abandon at various times.

Insurgent losses are subject to the Vietnamese disease, U.S. habit of counting dead civilians as enemy deaths. Even if it is 20,000, at current rates U.S. is losing the battle of attrition for the insurgents are able to recruit and fight as effectively as they ever have been.

2. Insurgents are fighting with far older weapons than either Iranian forces or Hezbollah fight/fought with. Insurgents have not been trained by Iranian forces, in fact the vast bulk of the insurgency is made up of Sunni's.


3. China is saturated with air-defense unlike Iraq is at the moment with a very large airforce. In the Korean war China inflicted tens of thousands of deaths on the U.S. military, the gap between China and U.S. has narrowed not widened in the years.

4. The most vicious strategic bombing of ww2 which involved firebombing of many more than 20 targets didnt cause the sudden collapse of the German military. In fact it was a million red army soldiers on the Eastern front and hundreds of thousands of allied troops on the ground slowly putting the German army through the meat grinder that did the "cutting in half".

 

[zraver]

1. U.S. forces were forced out of Fallujah two times, Anbar province specifically and Iraq generally has become a balloon of a problem, where ever the U.S. military squeezes the balloon expands in another area. You are also exaggerating that U.S. forces have never been stopped or forced out of areas, there are countless towns and cities in Iraq that U.S. forces were forced to abandon at various times.

Insurgent losses are subject to the Vietnamese disease, U.S. habit of counting dead civilians as enemy deaths. Even if it is 20,000, at current rates U.S. is losing the battle of attrition for the insurgents are able to recruit and fight as effectively as they ever have been.

2. Insurgents are fighting with far older weapons than either Iranian forces or Hezbollah fight/fought with. Insurgents have not been trained by Iranian forces, in fact the vast bulk of the insurgency is made up of Sunni's.


3. China is saturated with air-defense unlike Iraq is at the moment with a very large airforce. In the Korean war China inflicted tens of thousands of deaths on the U.S. military, the gap between China and U.S. has narrowed not widened in the years.

4. The most vicious strategic bombing of ww2 which involved firebombing of many more than 20 targets didnt cause the sudden collapse of the German military. In fact it was a million red army soldiers on the Eastern front and hundreds of thousands of allied troops on the ground slowly putting the German army through the meat grinder that did the "cutting in half".

Thanks for your reply and proving you have not the faintes tidea what you are talking about.

1- There is a huge differance between the numbers of reported dead among civillians and insurgents. The vietnam disease you claim is simply not in play. The increase in insurgent recruiting is a US failure but not a defeat, the US failed to take into account the level of sectarian hate. The US has never been forced out or anywhere, manpower needs or Iraqi goverment restrictions may have bulged the balloon or brought an early end to an operation but the Insurgents have never forced a US unit to flee or retreat.

2- The Insurgetns are gettign supplied by Syria who is supplied by Iran. so while Iran may not be directly arming the Sunni's they are doing so indirectly.

3- The gap between US military capabilites and the rest of the world is the widest it has ever been. in 1950 with the excpetion of the A-bomb China and the US had roughly the same level of technology (although they used it differently). in 2007 the Chinese are still trying to get a true 4th gen fighter into the air (they still can't do it with domestic engines) while the US is deploying 5th gen fighters. Like wize on the ground the PLA is still totally outclassed using dead end technology like the ZTZ-99 series of tanks with its inherently limited 125mm carosel auto-loading gun. Chinese attack helos still depend on western engines and do not have ATGM's witha true fire and forget or top down attack capabilites. At sea the gap is jsut as large a few type 54 DDG's cannot match the might of the US Navy.

The 8th Airforce won WW2. The attacks soaked up the best and brightest of the Luftwafe and destroyed it as an effective fighting force. it also forced germany to deploy tens of thousands of 88mm guns and crews., If those guns had bene armed at tanks not planes Ivan would never have made it into let alone across Poland.

 

[sigatoka]

Thanks for your reply and proving you have not the faintes tidea what you are talking about.

1- The US has never been forced out or anywhere but the Insurgents have never forced a US unit to flee or retreat.

2- The Insurgetns are gettign supplied by Syria who is supplied by Iran. so while Iran may not be directly arming the Sunni's they are doing so indirectly.

3- The gap between US military capabilites and the rest of the world is the widest it has ever been.

4. in 1950 with the excpetion of the A-bomb China and the US had roughly the same level of technology (although they used it differently). in 2007 the Chinese are still trying to get a true 4th gen fighter into the air (they still can't do it with domestic engines) while the US is deploying 5th gen fighters. Like wize on the ground the PLA is still totally outclassed using dead end technology like the ZTZ-99 series of tanks with its inherently limited 125mm carosel auto-loading gun. Chinese attack helos still depend on western engines and do not have ATGM's witha true fire and forget or top down attack capabilites. At sea the gap is jsut as large a few type 54 DDG's cannot match the might of the US Navy.

1. I'll just agree to disagree, I cant be bothered looking for news reports or articles.

2. This is just a way for U.S. to shift the blame from its own inability to control the situation, insurgents are fighting with the hundreds of tons of small arms that Saddam has acquired.

3. The U.S. is spending as much as it was in vietnam per month in Iraq and still making no headway, at least in Vietnam it could blame the Soviet Union and China which were helping North Vietnam with weapons. This means that the gap hasnt widened in reality between U.S. and the forces it engages in combat with.

4. When China inflicted tens of thousands of casualities on the U.S. it did so with only infantry without armoured support or an airforce. What has changed it now has an airforce, it has armour and a navy. Yes, it is inferior but for the next few years U.S. is tied down in Iraq and Afghanistan while China's economy continues to grow at 10% which means approx. 10% growth in military spending which means a further narrowing of the gap between U.S. and China. It will after all only take another 15 years before China reaches overall U.S. economic size. This is a major reason why U.S. must bail out of Iraq quickly for strategic reason. It needs those troops for China.

 

[ARSENAL6]

Israeli started the war by shelling & killing the family on the beach; also there are various kidnapped civilians in Israeli prison; how come no one ever talks about them?

Here here Rahaman !
Well said !

.

2- The Insurgetns are gettign supplied by Syria who is supplied by Iran. so while Iran may not be directly arming the Sunni's they are doing so indirectly.

Wheres the proof ?

 

[Averroes]

Also have you forgotten that Hezzbollah started the war, as an offical arm of the lebanese goverment, thier acxtions took Lebanon to war not just Hezzbollah. This wasn't fair to the Lebanese people, but it was Hezzbollah not Israel who brought the war.

It's getting darn annoying with all these lies coming from americans. Although they have become synonomous with lies and deceit.

Israel planned for Lebanon war months in advance, PM says | Syria and Lebanon | Guardian Unlimited

Preparations for Israel’s war in Lebanon last summer were drawn up at least four months before two Israeli soldiers were kidnapped by Hizbullah in July, Ehud Olmert, the prime minister, has admitted.His submission to a commission of inquiry, leaked yesterday, contradicted the impression at the time that Israel was provoked into a battle for which it was ill-prepared. Mr Olmert told the Winograd commission, a panel of judges charged with investigating Israel’s perceived defeat in the 34-day war, that he first discussed the possibility of war in January and asked to see military plans in March.

zraver is simply part of the americans and other racist white supremists who are hell bent on killing muslims and fighting islam. they build their cases on spectacular lies, leading up to military action, abiding by no international law, and dont rest until the job's done and everyone in the region submits to their racist ideology.

 

[Keysersoze]

It's getting darn annoying with all these lies coming from americans. Although they have become synonomous with lies and deceit.

Israel planned for Lebanon war months in advance, PM says | Syria and Lebanon | Guardian Unlimited

Preparations for Israel’s war in Lebanon last summer were drawn up at least four months before two Israeli soldiers were kidnapped by Hizbullah in July, Ehud Olmert, the prime minister, has admitted.His submission to a commission of inquiry, leaked yesterday, contradicted the impression at the time that Israel was provoked into a battle for which it was ill-prepared. Mr Olmert told the Winograd commission, a panel of judges charged with investigating Israel’s perceived defeat in the 34-day war, that he first discussed the possibility of war in January and asked to see military plans in March.

zraver is simply part of the americans and other racist white supremists who are hell bent on killing muslims and fighting islam. they build their cases on spectacular lies, leading up to military action, abiding by no international law, and dont rest until the job's done and everyone in the region submits to their racist ideology.

Averroes please do not refer to someone as a "racist white supremist" because they do not agree with you.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

I have to say that it was the worst 4 months of planning in Israeli military history.

 

[zraver]

It's getting darn annoying with all these lies coming from americans. Although they have become synonomous with lies and deceit.

The accpeted start of the war was the kidnapping of IDF personnel. Even Nassarallh admitted he was caught off guard by the IDF REACTION, he also admitted local hezzie commanders were under standing orders to atack if they saw an opening. Wher eis the proof that isreal started the war?

Israel planned for Lebanon war months in advance, PM says | Syria and Lebanon | Guardian Unlimited

Preparations for Israel’s war in Lebanon last summer were drawn up at least four months before two Israeli soldiers were kidnapped by Hizbullah in July, Ehud Olmert, the prime minister, has admitted.His submission to a commission of inquiry, leaked yesterday, contradicted the impression at the time that Israel was provoked into a battle for which it was ill-prepared. Mr Olmert told the Winograd commission, a panel of judges charged with investigating Israel’s perceived defeat in the 34-day war, that he first discussed the possibility of war in January and asked to see military plans in March.

And every military force plans for war, this is not news. Hezzbollah planned for the war as welland did a damn better job of it than the IDF.

zraver is simply part of the americans and other racist white supremists who are hell bent on killing muslims and fighting islam. they build their cases on spectacular lies, leading up to military action, abiding by no international law, and dont rest until the job's done and everyone in the region submits to their racist ideology.

Hrmmm... where have I advocated racism, or the destruction of Islam? Where have I violated international law?, and seeing as I am in Arkansas what region exactly and I subjugating?

I don't appreciate the ad hominem attack, although I find it reveals much about your character and drives.