The War in Kurram

[Ratus Ratus]

Two articles some have read but never bothered to comment on.
Why too difficult to understand or is it a case they cut to close to the truth?

I have noticed that many like making nationalistic comments about many valid posted articles on the current war against the terrorists, but sometimes when it comes to looking at the mirror most shun the reflection.


http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/28534-analysis-good-bad-ugly-salman-tarik-kureshi.html


http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...rning-wrong-lessons-chalinda-weerasinghe.html

For those that find flicking to other posts while reading one, these articles are listed below.

The article, “view: Learning the wrong lessons”, has some interesting salient points. Unfortunately the writer has managed to cloud then by the depth of detail re Sri Lanka and the LTTE

Firstly the current battles with the Taliban are not going to be just a military one. This is something that should be obvious.
In many cases governments have looked at insurgencies and being solved by the military in one way or the other. Wrong. Many of these insurgencies stem from bad governess. What the writer is endeavouring to point out is that the LTTE insurgency is based on that, ie bad governance by various Sri Lankan governments not listening.

If one looks at many of the issues that are in NWFP, FATA, and also Balochistan there are many underlying social matters that are at the root of the problems.
The Taliban promoted themselves as a solution to all these social ills. Yes they failed due to their methods, but they got a foot in the door. Something the Government of Pakistan or Provincial government had not managed to do.

To get the Taliban out and regain the veneer of Government writ military action will be required in FATA and NWFP. Now Balochistan may hold other surprises yet to be uncovered. Wait and see.
What the current battles in FATA and NWFP have doe is create a large number of displace persons. This is a big concern for any government. There has to be solutions to dealing with this.

Now while the military campaign progresses there must be well defined support plan in place. This plan has to deal with the displaced people and the aftermath of the conflict. So far there appears to be little that has been really done in this quarter. This does not imply the Government of Pakistan must deal with this by itself. But the Government must have constructed a workable and realistic plan on how to deal with the situation. Has it really done this?
Now I say the Government of Pakistan does not have to do the reconstruction by itself I mean simple the government must develop the plan, decide what structures, ( for a start buildings as schools, hospitals and court houses, police stations), have to be built or rebuilt, what infrastructure, power, water and roads to rebuild or build, and what social needs the areas need.
With this plan the government must then clearly outline what they need to be provided from those that have offered aid in this massive rebuilding.

That plan is one not only covering the current handling of displaced persons and their rehabilitation home but what happens socially and within the realms of justices and governance, the main areas which allowed the Taliban to get a foot hold.

One important aspect is the need to deliver effective and honest government administration. Though that may be something needed everywhere.
Governance is one of the critical issues and it is time that all of Pakistan realised that it can not continue with federal administered areas any more.
The nation must either go forward or stagnate.
Stagnation leads to collapse.
Pakistan has virtually been running as a stat within a state with the way the NW has been governed. It is now time to make huge changes to the nation and become one, not one inside another.
It is time to realise that one province cannot be stripped for the benefit of the others.

These are the things that so far Sri Lanka is not doing. Don’t follow that path.
Reread
http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...rning-wrong-lessons-chalinda-weerasinghe.html

And make sure your nation progresses not stagnates.
This may require you do more than just write comments on a web forum. That literally does nothing as far as your government is concerned. I doubt they even read your posts.

There is still one critical aspect to the Taliban that few have bothered to talk about.
Yes everyone knows that is the so called good Taliban and the Bad Taliban.
First what is a good Taliban? From what I can gather it is someone who does not wage battle against the state of Pakistan but lives in Pakistan.
How ridiculous is that. That literally means the Government of Pakistan houses people who are conducting militancy against another nation. That is terrorism. Does Pakistan what to still be called the house of terrorists? I doubt that.
Give up the misguided notion of good and bad Taliban.
None are good for Pakistan.

From all these battles there are going to be many militants who realise their mistakes in following the Taliban. What are you going to do with them?
Throw them back to their villages, back to nothing, back to doing nothing, back to militancy at a later date?
That is a waste of a good resource.

The article
Article link: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/28534-analysis-good-bad-ugly-salman-tarik-kureshi.html
makes and interesting point on this.

"Mao’s government understood, back in 1949, that the presence of all the leftover weaponry from the war and the revolution would pose critical challenges to the Chinese state they intended to build. Therefore, they set about absorbing their own partisans, as well as the many other arms-wielding Chinese citizens, into the Red Army.

Similarly, the countries of Europe, replete with former Resistance fighters after World War II, carefully absorbed them into various arms of their government. The Americans used their GI Bill to fund university education for demobilised soldiers. And so in Vietnam. And in Cambodia.

In the aftermath of great wars and/or revolutions, which have left behind an enormous detritus of weapons and armed, militarily experienced persons, the means of absorbing those weapons into the state’s armoury and those persons into remunerative employment have been vigorously pursued and implemented by most countries.

We, too, live in a country bristling with guns and bulging with bombs — left over, we are told, from the jihad in Afghanistan. And it is the armed and trained remnants of the partisans who fought that war — whether as mujahideen or as Taliban — that are responsible for the disorder and terrorism in our country."

If other nations realise this important aspect why has this never bee applied in Pakistan?
Is it belief that these groups will be a ‘third’ force against the big enemy?
Or is it a real case of blatant crass arrogance by select controlling groups?
Or a case of the four monkeys, see nothing, hear nothing, say nothing and do nothing?
(Apologies to the three monkeys)

The article “ANALYSIS: The good, the bad and the ugly” makes the following comment:
“Minimal common sense and at least some honesty of purpose would have suggested precisely the kinds of prescriptions that have been followed elsewhere. But our elites — beyond even the bounds of ordinary common sense — further equipped these warriors, made deals with them, pampered them as intelligence ‘assets’ and sought to use them to project the force of the Pakistan state beyond our borders”

So why were these so called assets allowed to become a third undeclared, disorganised and not beholden to the government arm of the strategic plan. They were acting as terrorists and the government was housing them.

Pakistanis cry foul about India and RAW doing the same, but how can you cry foul if your government does it?
This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Make sure this big plan of reconstruction of these are being currently battered by conflict also includes a sound manner to involve these returning fighters.
Do not leave them out to dry because if you do they will come back and haunt you again.

Look at China; look at what other nations have done. They absorbed them into their armed forces, or paid them to learn something useful; eg, trade or skill; to re enter the social mainstream.
Absorb them into the Army or the FC.
Do not ignore them again.



Articles AGAIN.
view: Learning the wrong lessons —Chalinda Weerasinghe

Make no mistake, neither Sri Lanka nor Pakistan faces purely a military threat. Although there is much discussion that the military is only part of the solution, there is no indication that any other aspect of the solution is being considered seriously

Just as the Pakistani military advances towards the Taliban stronghold in South Waziristan, the Sri Lankan Army is busy celebrating its military victory against the LTTE. The Sri Lankan experience contains a number of pertinent lessons for the Pakistani authorities. These lessons must be heeded if Pakistan is to retain its democratic and moderate values and institutions.

I wish to point to the negative aspects of the Lankan experience to illustrate the potential pitfalls Pakistan must guard against.

Amidst the euphoria in Sri Lanka over the perceived end to the LTTE menace, we must not forget that Sri Lanka’s ‘victory’ has come at an unacceptable price. I am not even sure if it can be called a victory. There are no indications that the root causes of the Sri Lankan conflict are being addressed and political realities are in fact nudging the government to see the military victory as an end-game.

Sri Lanka has had a lamentable past. It degenerated into an illiberal quasi-police state where successive governments (the present one included) have engaged in overt and covert intimidation of dissidents, journalists and human rights workers, and dismantled the independent judicial system in the name of ‘national interest’. They carried out extra-judicial killings and torture, conducted human rights violations, and suppressed all forms of dissent. Communal fires were stoked and civil liberties were suspended for the most part; Colombo became a prime example of majoritarianism gone wrong.

It is in light of this context that we need to understand the current victory against the LTTE. The present administration is led by ultra-right nationalists who were, for the first time since Tamil militant uprisings, as hard-line and resolute as the terrorists they were fighting. This fact, coupled with new strategic and tactical operational expertise, enabled the government to achieve a military victory that had eluded its predecessors.

In doing so, however, they went to unprecedented lengths to control the general population and generate support for the war. They also showed callous disregard for Tamil civilian lives, epitomised by their behaviour towards the end of the war. They did not possess a plan for a lasting political solution to the problem after the military victory.

The reason Velupillai Prabhakaran’s ruthlessness did not dent his hold on his people is that his aspirations were widely shared by Tamils when the militant movement first started gaining traction in Sri Lanka. The LTTE wanted a separate homeland but also at times advocated a federal solution to solve the conflict. Neither of these demands were seriously discussed and entertained by successive governments.

As in the 1950s, when the seeds of the conflict were first sown, nationalist parties are the driving force in the current government and they have always maintained that Sri Lanka is a Sinhalese country above all. Even the army has made similar comments.

Quite worrisome is the fact that talks of more autonomy to the Tamils in the wake of the military victory over the LTTE have been shot down by those sympathetic to the government and its nationalist proponents. The government has already ruled out the LTTE as a negotiating partner in a peace process but there is no viable independent Tamil party or voice to articulate the needs of the Tamils.

The only Tamil parties are beholden to the majority Sinhalese-led political parties for survival. Hence, there is little reason to be optimistic that a lasting, satisfactory political solution is forthcoming from this administration.

The discriminatory practices of subsequent Sri Lankan governments aided the LTTE and other radical groups in their recruitment and mobilisation. These terrorist groups tapped into the marginalisation felt by the Tamil community in the north and the east of the country. Likewise, although the Taliban “are not reflecting Pashtun or Swati aspirations”, they are tapping into the resentment and marginalisation felt by these groups — economic, political and otherwise.

Amidst waves of suicide bombings and indiscriminate violence orchestrated by Tamil groups in Sri Lanka, the people turned a blind eye to the extreme measures undertaken by the government. There is evidence that Pakistanis are similarly desperate. Articles in the Pakistani press have been exhorting Pakistanis to accept “collateral damage”, just as Sri Lankans were repeatedly told to do (which they did with little opposition) through the years by their leaders.

Therefore, should Pakistan emulate Sri Lanka and lose its way by resorting to terrorism, intimidation and tyranny to fight an enemy who poses an existential threat to the state?

Certainly not. Once you go down the path that Sri Lanka embarked on, there is very little room to turn back. Institutions, precedence and incentives will take hold such that illiberal, tyrannical tendencies will be reinforced.

No state should resort to terrorism to defeat terrorists. They should not disregard human rights and violate conventions and norms regarding non-combatants and refugees. They should not deny civil liberties to their own people, curtail and censor the free media, suppress dissension and violate judicial independence.

The Pakistani Army so far seems to have taken great care in reducing collateral damage. Yet there are signs that no concrete plan exists for dealing with the massive IDP presence. No permanent socio-political solution has been debated. There are no plans on how to incorporate amenable Taliban foot soldiers into the mainstream.

Make no mistake, neither Sri Lanka nor Pakistan faces purely a military threat. Although there is much discussion that the military is only part of the solution, there is no indication that any other aspect of the solution is being considered seriously.

Pakistan needs to see the Taliban threat as a governance problem. Simultaneous efforts must be initiated to deal with the real reasons behind the disaffection of a large number of people in the country. On the military front, fighting a war with a conscience and restraint will only make it easier to bring disaffected citizens back into the mainstream.

Chalinda Weerasinghe is a political economist at the University of Maryland, College Park. He wrote this article exclusively for Daily Times


ANALYSIS: The good, the bad and the ugly —Salman Tarik Kureshi

The distinction between ‘good’ and ‘bad’ insurrectionists is meaningless. To do deals with the ‘good’ ones, as opposed to the ‘bad’ ones, will only be a repetition of past tactics. And will bring us that bit closer to a final collapse into anarchic state failure

In a previous article, welcoming Prime Minister Gilani’s announcement of military action against the insurgency in Swat, three questions were raised by this commentator:

“First: is this meant only for Swat? What about the rest of the NWFP; what about FATA, particularly the two Waziristans; what about the alleged Taliban GHQ in Quetta; what about the killer squads, arms caches and sleeper cells scattered all over Pakistan, from Islamabad to Karachi? Will these all be taken out by our men in khaki?”

Since then, of course, our armed forces, following formidable initial success in the Swat/ Malakand campaign, have announced preparation for a major assault on South Waziristan and Baitullah Mehsud of the Tehreek-e Taliban Pakistan. We also learn that a Mr Turkistan Bhittani, another formidable warlord, has broken away from the TTP (perhaps not unlike some of our parliamentarians, known for forming ‘forward blocs’ when changing allegiances) and will now be fighting on ‘our’ side. Thus, Mr Bhittani is no more amongst the ranks of the ‘bad’ anti-state terrorists, but will join the ranks of the ‘good’ anti-state terrorists. And this is a development we are expected to applaud as a portent of the forthcoming victory of the state!

Now, I do not know whether there are accusations against Mr Bhittani and am unwilling to consider anyone guilty until proven so, but there is surely a principle here. ‘Good’ Taliban or ‘bad’ Taliban, both factions stand accused of extreme violence, of cold-blooded mass murder and of waging war against the state of Pakistan. There are no accusations more heinous than these: the most vicious kind of murder and the highest kind of treason and — given that these criminals regularly misuse the sacred name of Islam — the most sacrilegious blasphemy.

Is there then any distinction between the ‘good’ Taliban and the ‘bad’ Taliban? Are they not equally ugly? Equally deadly for our state and society?

One realises that selective amnesties and tactical battlefield alliances are necessary parts of serious counterinsurgency campaigns. But — and this is the point — such ‘adjustments’ need to be highly selective and well thought through. Otherwise, one is simply unleashing a further species of monster to fight the monsters one has already unleashed.

Let us remember that, as the great Chinese revolutionary Mao Zedong said, “Power grows from the barrel of a gun.” Mao therefore proceeded to capture the guns, first from the Japanese occupation army and then from the Kuomingtang government of Chiang Kai-Shek. After his revolution came to its conclusion and the Chinese state was re-established, his enormous country was still awash with guns and those who had wielded them.

Let us be clear of the truism that the nature of states is such that they must enjoy a quasi-monopoly of armed force within their territory. If a state is not to collapse and ‘fail’, if a society is to not to become critically dysfunctional, it is necessary for the military, the paramilitaries and the police to establish and rigidly assert exclusive control over serious weaponry. Side by side, those individuals who are adept at the use of such weaponry must be subject to the disciplines of the security organs of the state.

Mao’s government understood, back in 1949, that the presence of all the leftover weaponry from the war and the revolution would pose critical challenges to the Chinese state they intended to build. Therefore, they set about absorbing their own partisans, as well as the many other arms-wielding Chinese citizens, into the Red Army.

Similarly, the countries of Europe, replete with former Resistance fighters after World War II, carefully absorbed them into various arms of their government. The Americans used their GI Bill to fund university education for demobilised soldiers. And so in Vietnam. And in Cambodia.

In the aftermath of great wars and/or revolutions, which have left behind an enormous detritus of weapons and armed, militarily experienced persons, the means of absorbing those weapons into the state’s armoury and those persons into remunerative employment have been vigorously pursued and implemented by most countries.

We, too, live in a country bristling with guns and bulging with bombs — left over, we are told, from the jihad in Afghanistan. And it is the armed and trained remnants of the partisans who fought that war — whether as mujahideen or as Taliban — that are responsible for the disorder and terrorism in our country.

Minimal common sense and at least some honesty of purpose would have suggested precisely the kinds of prescriptions that have been followed elsewhere. But our elites — beyond even the bounds of ordinary common sense — further equipped these warriors, made deals with them, pampered them as intelligence ‘assets’ and sought to use them to project the force of the Pakistan state beyond our borders.

There are three kinds of persons, other than the ‘legitimate’ state actors, who bear arms: straightforward criminals; the armed brigades associated with certain political parties and movements; and the insurrectionists and terrorists lumped together under the rubric of ‘Islamic militants’.

Now, all societies have their criminal underworlds and Pakistan too is richly endowed with such. Whether Karachi’s car and cell-phone snatchers, the dharels of interior Sindh, the badmashes of Punjab, ordinary murderers or the drug peddlers universal in our pious country, there is a colourful variety of armed law breakers to be found in our towns and villages. After all, every society, every country, has its dark underside. Crime pays (or not) everywhere in the world. And everywhere criminals are organised and armed.

But Colombia and the United States and Russia and Italy and all the other countries with armed criminal gangs are in no way threatened with state ‘failure’ or social collapse. Do criminals erode the foundations of a society or a state? Not really; they are too marginal in the wider sweep of social processes. Society does not collapse; the state does not fail.

But it is something else that has happened in Pakistan. The proliferation and arming of certain, fitfully favoured political groups — most prominently in the 1980s, but prevalent before and continuing thereafter — and the establishment’s failure to adequately confront them is where the serious destabilisation of Pakistani society began. It was a short step from there to today’s large-scale militias of armed militants and terrorists, against whom the Pakistani authorities claim to be fighting their ‘war on terror’.

Let us also be clear. The distinction between ‘good’ and ‘bad’ insurrectionists is meaningless. They are all guilty of the same, incredible level of criminal behaviour. To do deals with the ‘good’ ones, as opposed to the ‘bad’ ones, will only be a repetition of past tactics. And will bring us that bit closer to a final collapse into anarchic state failure.

The writer is a marketing consultant based in Karachi. He is also a poet

 

[muse]

Ratus

Excellent pieces. Good AKA effective governance will remain a challenege even after defeating the Al-Qaida protge, TTP and will be exacerbated unless we simulatneously get rid of the so called good Talib. This ideology cannot have any space in Pakistan.

The IDP problem is already being mishandled and it hold the potential of unraveling the entire military effort:

IDPs Funds being misappropriated
Updated at: 2200 PST, Saturday, June 27, 2009
PESHAWAR: President PML-Q NWFP Chapter Amir Muqam Saturday accused that the funds for the affected people of Swat and Malakand Operation are being largely manipulated by Baitul Maal.

He was giving away the relief checque to fund established for the lawyers of Malakand here.

Talking to Geo News, he said the Malakand affectees are not being fully helped, adding stopping the registration of affectees is quite regrettable.

Amir Muqam demanded that all the relief funds should be all spent on the affectees.

He said that Baitul Mall are embezzling the Rs5000 checques on a large scale, which is extremely condemnable.

 

[muse]

And then there is ever present danger, the enablers of insurgency :

US interference spawning terrorism in region
Updated at: 2050 PST, Saturday, June 27, 2009
LAHORE: Jamaat Islami (JI) Secretary General Liaquat Baloch Saturday said the US interference and its armed action is causing the whole region to be inflicted with terrorism.

Talking to various delegations at Mansoorah, he said after Pakistan and Afghanistan, the conditions are worsening in Iran.

Liaquat said the Asian countries will keep on suffering from lawlessness, until US is staying in Afghanistan, adding it is imperative for the global peace that US withdraws its troops from Afghanistan.

‘Engineered extremism was caused by drone attacks and bombardment at Lal Masjid, Jamia Hafsa and Darul Hifz in Bajaur,’ JI leader said warning that Pakistan will not be allowed to turn into a secular country.


So I guess it does not matter what amount of votes they get - they are "peaceful" and "democratic" and will make sure the will of Pakistanis is always annuled- hain ji?

 

[muse]

Kurram clashes leave 33 dead

By Our Correspondent
Sunday, 28 Jun, 2009 | 02:47 AM PST | Sixty five people were also injured in sectarian clashes between warring groups in various parts of Lower Kurram.—AP Provinces

Kurram jirga again fails to broker peace PARACHINAR: At least 33 people were killed and 65 others injured in sectarian clashes between warring groups in various parts of the Kurram agency on Friday night and Saturday.

According to sources, fierce clashes shook parts of Lower Kurram and the two groups were consolidating their positions.

The local populace is bitter over the attitude of the administration, accusing it of giving a free hand to troublemakers.

Haji Rauf, a tribal leader in upper Kurram, said the local tribesmen had fought Taliban for more than two years.

‘We have had over 700 young people martyred but have not allowed these militants to secure a toehold in upper Kurram. Now the influx of Taliban from Swat, Dir and other areas is worsening the situation.’

Haji Rauf called upon the government to launch an action similar to the one under way in Malakand. He extended the assurance that local tribesmen would stand ‘shoulder to shoulder with our army and fight alongside our soldiers’.

Paramilitary forces deployed in different areas of the conflict-hit region have so far not acted, a group of affected people complained during conversation with journalists.

The fighting started in the region 12 days ago over a dispute on construction of bunkers in Khar Kali and Balishkhel.

There were unconfirmed reports about infiltration of outsiders from Waziristan and Hangu district, but could not be verified from independent sources. The 12-day long clashes have left about 89 people dead and 175 injured.

Both sides have been accusing each other of seeking assistance from outsiders. Local people said that fresh clashes had erupted in Balishkhel, Khar Kali, Sangina, Mangak, Kochi Parachamkani and Kirman.

Doctors said that out of 20 injured people brought to the agency headquarters hospital on Saturday, four died.

The Kurram agency has seen frequent clashes over the past two years. Residents said that ‘movement of the militants’ in the area had caused sectarian clashes.

The main road from Thall to Parachinar has been closed to traffic for the past five months, causing severe shortages of foodstuff and medicines in Upper Kurram.


But this is part of the mess - once again, not the role of GOVERNANCE:

Kurram APA accused of supporting militants By Our Correspondent
Monday, 08 Jun, 2009 | 03:03 AM PST |

Displaced & Distraught PARACHINAR: A jirga of Turi tribesmen has demanded of the government to dismiss the assistant political agent of Lower Kurram, Ayaz Mandokhel, accusing him of supporting militants in the area.

The Ahmedkhel and Sharmakhel, Turi sub-tribes, held a joint jirga in Alizai area of Kurram Agency on Sunday and criticised what they called the partisan role of Mr Mandokhel in the troubled region.

The jirga expressed its concern over the presence of assistant political agent in the flag-bearing vehicle of local militants.

According to a press release, when local tribesmen searched the vehicle of militants, they found assistant political agent sitting in it. The tribesmen, however, allowed him to proceed ahead, but he abandoned the vehicle boarded another one and drove towards Sadda, it said.

The jirga elders denied that any of their tribesmen had made anyone hostage.

They said that Mr Mandokhel had created a fake story to hide his collusion with militants.

The jirga members threatened if the official was not removed from his post and put on trial like former Malakand commissioner, they would launch a protest drive against the government.

The tribesmen, they said, had formed tribal committees against the infiltration of suicide bombers and militants after the political administration lost its authority in the area.

They said the Alizai tribesmen would extend their support to the government, when the latter would succeed in restoring its writ in the agency.

In a separate statement, Haji Ali Hussain Turi, Malik Nauroz Bangash, Khadam Hazara, Haji Mansib and Haji Ahmed Ali, held assistant political agent responsible for the growing tension in the agency.

They said Tall-Parachinar road, the only link that connected Kurrum Agency with Peshawar, was closed for the last four months. They said agency residents were constrained to reach Peshawar via Afghanistan, which was a costly and difficult task for ordinary people.

They said tribesmen were loyal to the government, but Mr Mandokhel was sowing seeds of hatred and chaos in the agency. They asked the government to remove him forthwith

 

[Ratus Ratus]

muse:
The two articles were actually initially posted by the honorable fatman17. He should get that applause.

In all cases governance of Pakistan is paramount.
What you have posted is a blunt indication that this has not and no doubt will not occur.


Perhaps it is time to hold an "Accountability" of ALL politicians at all levels, national and provincial.

With respect to all the articles and comments relating t these articles I find it very disquieting that there are 150 off people reading some if any of this and not bothering to comment.
It might implies that since no conspiracy theory is present then it is either just too difficult to follow or worse the truth hurts.

 

[PAFAce]

Just a few ideas I would like to comment on:

1. The mis-handling of the IDP situation:

I do not think that what is currently being done is enough or sufficient in any way. However, it would have taken a lot of time for the Pakistani government and military to draw-up complete plans for IDP relocation and implement them, and this would have given the Taleban lots of time prepare for an assault. Also, the support of the Pakistani populace for an operation would be in danger of withering away had the Army not taken a stand immediately, not to mention the international pressure to "do more, and do it now". Things could be handled better, but I doubt it could have been planned for. It would all have to be done in real-time.

2. The Good Taleban vs the Bad Taleban:

This has been a question I have been debating with myself for a while now. Is there any Taleban that is good for Pakistan? I am quite convinced there isn't, and that all Taleban in Pakistan should be eliminated, regardless of the "franchise name". However, it is neither fair nor reasonable for the US and NATO forces in Afghanistan to expect that the Pakistan Army will take care of their problems for them. To hope that Pakistan Army will be able to destroy Afghan Taleban's fighting capability while the Security Forces in Afghanistan stay safely in their established bases, is just not going to happen. They, too, will have to risk taking the casualties that the Pakistan Army is incurring, and will have to show the kind of conviction the Pakistani Army has shown.

For the Pakistani Army, it makes absolute sense in exploiting the "Afghan vs Pakistani" Taleban divide to create rifts and cracks within the Taleban ranks. Divide and Conquer, it's simple and it works.

No Taleban should be allowed to remain on Pakistani soil, however, it is not our responsibility to ensure they are unable to fight in Afghanistan. That is the responsibility of the forces in Afghanistan, who were originally sent there to eliminate Taleban and Al-Qaeda, not to "occupy land and rebuild the nation". They have changed their mission to serve their national interests, as evidenced by the fact that over 70% of Afghan money spent on rebuilding efforts actually goes to foreign corporations. I spoke with an acquaintance recently, who had done 2 tours of duty in Afghanistan before leaving the Canadian Forces, and he said "there is no way anyone's leaving Afghanistan. They're all making too much money to consider leaving anytime soon." The reason I bring this up is because, it is quite evident that the people who complained about Pakistan "not doing more" or being "unreasonably soft on the Taleban" are actually not very sincere themselves. So should we be trying to fight their war for them? I say no. Get rid of all Taleban inside Pakistan, and then close the border.

3. Military success does not equal ultimate victory:
There isn't much doubt about this. I've said it time and again, military operation is just Phase I. Establishment, maintaining and exercising proper governance in the area is probably even more important. I've said it before, this is a golden opportunity for Pakistan to bring the NWFP and FATA region properly under control. No more "Ilaqa Ghair" and no more sanctuaries of crime. We must bring FATA and parts of NWFP, Balochistan and Sindh under Pakistan proper.

 

[muse]

PAFace

Little to disagree with in your presentation -- However; Pakistan have been unwilling to deal forcefully with the Afghan Talib AKA the good Talib - I'm not sure I understand why because like you, I am persuaded that there is no such a thing as a good Talib.

Positions have been presented that for some elements in the Pakistan establishment the good Talib are a asset - this seems to me to be lunacy and I do not think that there is much truth to this and if there is, well, Lunacy, fits such thinking and behaviour -- this ofcourse does not solve the problem of destroying the Afghan Talib who are on Pakistani soil nd use it as a sanctuary.

 

[muse]

From Today's DT


Editorial: The long wait in Kurram

As Kurram Agency on the border with Afghanistan waits for the return of the writ of the Pakistani state for the past three years, the Taliban depredations in the guise of sectarianism continue around the headquarters of the Parachinar agency. At least 33 people were killed and 65 others injured in “sectarian clashes” in various parts of Kurram Agency on Friday night and Saturday. In the last 12 days, the casualty list includes 89 people dead and 175 injured.

The local population has virtually given up on Pakistan during the two years that have seen all roads going to Pakistan cut off and the federal government ditching them after promising to come to their help “within a fortnight”. The local administration, if it can be called that, “cooperates” with the Taliban in the interim and exposes the besieged Shia majority population of Parachinar. According to a local tribesman quoted in the press: “We have had over 700 young people martyred but have not allowed these militants to secure a toehold in upper Kurram. Now the influx of Taliban from Swat, Dir and other areas is worsening the situation”.

Because Pakistan has virtually said goodbye to Kurram, it is no longer possible for the people of the agency to get food and medicine from Pakistan. The Sunni Taliban and their cohorts accuse the Shia of getting help from Afghanistan; the Shia accuse the Sunni groups of getting ever-increasing fighting manpower from Waziristan and Hangu.

Kurram faces Tora Bora on the other side of the border. This is the route that Al Qaeda and its Taliban supporters took to escape from Afghanistan in 2001. The local Parachinar population, being Shia, did not cooperate because of the age-old rivalry between them and the surrounding Sunni tribes. After the establishment of the Tehreek-e Taliban Pakistan (TTP) things have got much worse since the Sunni militias that hunt the local Shia are commanded by warlords owing allegiance to Baitullah Mehsud.

The sectarian scourge is also strengthened by the schism in the nearby Orakzai Agency where Baitullah’s commander Hakimullah has nearly 8,000 fighters under him and is busy warring with the opponent Shia militia of Hussain Ali Shah with 7,000 fighters at his disposal. As this war spilled into Kurram, another commander of Baitullah Mehsud, Qari Hussain, the expert in preparing suicide-bombers in a matter of hours, has been operating against the Shia in Kurram. Qari Hussain was reported killed recently during military operation, but his partners are carrying on the sectarian massacre after him.

If and when Pakistan decides to tackle the crisis in Kurram it will find that after years of neglect, the killing machine of the Taliban has bound Kurram to Orakzai, Khyber and Darra Adamkhel through the activities of commander Hakimullah. Other NWFP cities like Hangu and Kohat have caught the virus because of the presence of the Taliban at their outskirts with local administration increasingly in the subordinate mode with them. The Taliban and Al Qaeda sympathisers in Kohat are the actual rulers in this region and have their outreach into Islamabad through the Lal Masjid clergy.

After the death of Qari Hussain, it is the warlord of Darra Adamkhel, Commander Tariq, who is carrying on the war against the Kurram population with the help of other TTP allies. Long years of neglect have tilted the Shia population in favour of some help that they get from the Hazaras of Afghanistan. Also, after the area was cut off from the rest of Pakistan, the Kurram Shias were said to be receiving some assistance from Iran. This has actually exacerbated the situation with a more intensified polarisation between the Shia and those fighting a covert war against Iran.

The people of Kurram have waited a long time for the state of Pakistan to rescue them. Now as the state asserts itself for sovereignty in South Waziristan and the TTP and Al Qaeda terrorists are on the run, the time may have come for the Interior Minister, Rehman Malik, to fulfil his pledge that Pakistan would come to the rescue of Kurram “within a fortnight”. That was said many months ago

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The latest clashes have resulted in over a hundred dead, most Taliban militants.

Good job Turis! Keep it up.

The GoP may not want to take sides in what is a war that is not only between the Taliban and the Turis, but also a war between tribes and sects and therefore make an enemy out of the tribes opposing the Turis, and possibly lose its position as a 'neutral arbiter' when attempting to negotiate ceasefires and peace.

The first step towards peace in Kurram (and elsewhere in Pakistan) is the elimination of the Taliban throughout Pakistan.

 

[kidwaibhai]

didnt the army just move into Kurram agency to stop the clashes. there was another report that the kurram chapter of the ppp is demanding a military operation there to flush out the militants

 

[wtf]

The background. I am not saying this story is true (probably a lie, since they accuse India of being pro-turi!) , but just listing out the counter-claims.

Turis accused of fomenting insurgency in Kurram Agency

riday, June 26, 2009
By By our correspondent
SADDA: Elders of six tribes of the Kurram Agency have demanded of President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and NWFP Governor Owais Ahmed Ghani to take serious notice of the activities of the Turi tribe allegedly involved in fomenting insurgency in the violence-hit area.

Addressing a joint press conference at the Sadda Press Club on Thursday, former MNAs Haji Zareen Khan Mangal and Zulfikar Ali Chamkani and other elders of the tribes including Haji Saleem Khan Orakzai, Malik Mir Badshah Masozai, Haji Rai Khan Khoidadkhel, Malik Mir Akbar, Malik Saifullah Khan Masozai, Haji Sher Khan, Haji Gul Zaman, Fazal Hameed and Abdul Kareem Abid alleged that the Indian consulates in Afghanistan were supporting the Turi tribesmen, who were involved in the endless violence in the area.

They alleged that hundreds of Turi tribesmen had been recruited in the Indian consulates in Afghanistan where they were being trained, funded and supplied sophisticated arms. The elders alleged that they were not only involved in insurgency and terrorism in the Kurram Agency but also across the country.

They said the Turi tribesmen was trying to hide their anti-state activities by claiming themselves as innocent in the media but it was on the government record that they had deliberately spoiled the peaceful atmosphere in the area.

They said the six tribes of the Kurram Agency never challenged the writ of the government in the past while the Turi tribe took law into their hands and there was no sign of governance in Upper Kurram.

They asked as to who killed Political Agent Taj Muhammad Khan, Assistant Political Agent Masoodur Rehman and other officials in the past. They said the Turi tribe was trying to prove itself innocent.

They alleged that the Turi tribe had expelled thousands of innocent people of the six tribes from their own villages and homes in the past. They said they had not closed the main road but the armed men of the Turi tribe were behind the blockade for the last two years in Alizai and Marukhel areas and even the government officials were not allowed to travel. They said the people of the six tribes had been travelling to Kohat and Peshawar through the mountainous areas.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

WTF:

The Turis have accused the other tribes of being in cahoots with the Taliban and supporting them, especially in an attempt to wipe out the Turis, and the other tribes have tried to accuse the Turis of being in cahoots with the Afghans and Indians.

IMO, given that multiple news outlets have said that the majority of the hundred plus killed were Taliban militants, the Turis are accurate. While the other tribes may not have started out deliberately supporting the Taliban, I think the Taliban took advantage of the sectarian schisms in Kurram, possibly got some sympathetic elders to support them, and added fuel to the fire in Kurram.

Now the Taliban appear to be tangibly assisting with both men and material in this fight, as well as using their control to conduct criminal activity to finance their operations. It could also be that, as we have seen in other parts of FATA and Swat, once a tribe allow the Taliban in, they take control through their barbarity and eliminate anyone who opposes them. It becomes almost impossible for the Tribe to then get rid of them. In Kurram, they are possibly deflecting the attention of the Tribes giving them sanctuary (from how destructive their activities are) by preying upon the existing sectarian tensions.

By the way, Al Zulfiqar is from Kurram, and has lost loved ones in this war and fought the Taliban. His posts, from the perspective of Turi loyalty to Pakistan, are illuminating.

I think if the Turi's really were interested in the Afghans and Indians, we would have seen a secessionist movement there already.

 

[wtf]

Thanks AM. That was very informative. I'll add in news links to these sources as I find them.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

By the way, Al Zulfiqar is from Kurram,

As is the thread starter of course, in case someone missed the last name.

 

[seekers]

Terrorism first time start in Pakistan under command of zia in early 80's
till 911,2001 their target was only shia community .they have martyr thousand of shia ulemas, doctors and many top management shia people like chairman of PSO.
But Govts. and nation keep a deaf year over this target killing in the couple of these decades.
Shia community has given the sacrifices more than anyone in this war even than Pakistan Army.
People use to say that "this is not terrorism this is secreter ism".

I would like to clear one thing to everybody.Every terrorist even in Pakistan,Afghanistan or Iraq ,they are the worst enemy of Shia. because of their wahabi background.

parachinar (Khurram Agency) is not only the target area of taliban terrorist against shia people.In D.I.Khan under the command of mullana fazlu rehman's brother they are doing target killing against shia and Govt. and authourity keep saying "this is not terrorism this secreterism"
In recent Geo documentry "aik din Pak. Army kay sath" Army man has told that majority of Army people fighting in this war belong to Gilgit and Skardu (in which 80% population is shia.)

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