The US now faces a dilemma in the ISIS fight (the coming US-Iran alliance?)

[DrawingDead]

Or maybe you should not have invaded Iraq on false premises to begin with?

Did you notice I called not breaking up Iraq the second biggest mistake? Can you guess what I think is the biggest?
On the other hand, I guess I could argue that if you hadn't been so generous in funding extremism, we wouldn't be here. But we'll leave that debate for some other time.

I am not against the Faustian deal to finish off ISIS, my concern is the timing. It should wait till Assad is gone, otherwise Iran and Assad will get a boost and it may change the current momentum against Assad. This will mean another 5 years extension of the Syrian civil war and perhaps the rise of yet another incarnation of ISIS, which will learn from the mistakes this ISIS made, just like ISIS learned from AQI.

The timing of it is what makes this deal so unpalatable. We're supporting groups that are fighting against their guy in Syria, our allies, Saudi Arabia and co, are fighting their proxies in Yemen. But we're basically forced to cut a deal with them here. If the Arab states could put together a competent force of 50k ground troops to fight ISIS, we could happily walk away from this deal. This deal leaves them too close to making a nuke. It seems like the the best available option right now because of the ISIS threat. But I think we're going to live to regret it.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Did you notice I called not breaking up Iraq the second biggest mistake? Can you guess what I think is the biggest?
On the other hand, I guess I could argue that if you hadn't been so generous in funding extremism, we wouldn't be here. But we'll leave that debate for some other time.




The timing of it is what makes this deal so unpalatable. We're supporting groups that are fighting against their guy in Syria, our allies, Saudi Arabia and co, are fighting their proxies in Yemen. But we're basically forced to cut a deal with them here. If the Arab states could put together a competent force of 50k ground troops to fight ISIS, we could happily walk away from this deal. This deal leaves them too close to making a nuke. It seems like the the best available option right now because of the ISIS threat. But I think we're going to live to regret it.

No, as I cannot read your mind. Sorry.

Which "extremist" funding are you talking about? Did you expect a proud people like Iraqis and Arabs in general to just look silently at you committing war crimes in Iraq and invading their country illegally?

We can take it now if it will be a short debate.

Your administration has no clue about what they are doing in the ME. The Obama administration are total jokes when it comes to their ME policy.

Especially in regards to Syria. "Red lines" my ***.

I like the US as a country and the American people and certain American politicians but the Iraq war was just a mess and so has Obama's ME policy been.

Sorry buddy.

P.S.: As an Arab and Muslim I indeed don't consider or considered the Iraqi resistance to be terrorists. Whether the one initiated by Iraqi Sunni Arabs or Shia Arabs. I am talking about the one that purely targeted their opponents (American and coalition soldiers). Obviously not civilians. They were and are not more terrorists than your army in Iraq were, that's for sure.

If somebody attacked your country on false premises and local Americans took arms to fight the invaders you would hail them as freedom fighters too. FACT. Just look how some Americans deal with trespassers (read Mexicans and Latinos).

Oh boy would some Americans love to deal with some Muzzie invaders, lol.

Feel free to call me a terrorist.

 

[DrawingDead]

No, as I cannot read your mind. Sorry.

Which "extremist" funding are you talking about? Did you expect a proud people like Iraqis and Arabs in general to just look silently at you committing war crimes in Iraq and invading their country illegally?

We can take it now if it will be a short debate.

Your administration has no clue about what they are doing in the ME. The Obama administration are total jokes when it comes to their ME policy.

Especially in regards to Syria. "Red lines" my ***.

I like the US as a country and the American people and certain American politicians but the Iraq war was just a mess and so has Obama's ME policy been.

Sorry buddy.

P.S.: As an Arab and Muslim I indeed don't consider or considered the Iraqi resistance to be terrorists. Whether the one initiated by Iraqi Sunni Arabs or Shia Arabs. I am talking about the one that purely targeted their opponents (American and coalition soldiers). Obviously not civilians. They were and are not more terrorists than your army in Iraq were, that's for sure.

If somebody attacked your country on false premises and local Americans took arms to fight the invaders you would hail them as freedom fighters too. FACT. Just look how some Americans deal with trespassers (read Mexicans and Latinos).

Oh boy would some Americans love to deal with some Muzzie invaders, lol.

Feel free to call me a terrorist.

Oh get off your high horse!! You were sponsoring this shit before we ever set foot in Iraq. Who do you think was our co-sponsor in Afghan war in the 80s? Who do you think was one of only three countries that recognized the extremist Taliban government in Afghanistan? Trust me, nobody has funded more religious fundamentalism than the Saudis. 15 of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, Bin Ladin was a Saudi. If I were you, I'd take a good, hard look in the mirror.

We got rid of Saddam and the Iraqis were dancing in the streets. Did you forget how happily they were tearing down Saddam's statues? The fact that Iraqis couldn't come up with a consensus govt and move on with their lives post-Saddam, is not indictment of our actions but rather an indictment of a culture that is mired in petty feudalism and sectarianism. You are right that we have no clue about what we're doing in the Middle East. We keep expecting people to behave reasonably and show some sense of social order but that, obviously, is a huge mistake since authoritarianism seems to be the only thing that works for you. An entire culture that is devoid of any sense of community, that is so willing to decapitate people in public just because they didn't wipe their asses the exact same way as you, is not our doing but rather something that has existed before we ever set foot in the Middle East. It was masked by authoritarian regimes. Now people are just showing their true colors. Please don't blame us for your failings.

Oh by the way, proud people like the Arabs??Dude, if you had any pride, you would fought the first gulf war yourself, you wouldn't had us fight it for you. You'd be fighting ISIS right now and you'd have troops in Yemen. Guess what? You're 0 for 3.

 

[Aslan]

@kalu_miah

Please read my post number 3. GCC alone has a 5 times as big economy as Iran. It hosts US military bases too (Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar).

Not to speak about the remaining Arab world. USA will never prefer Iran over the Arab world in its entirety. Not even over the GCC.

[/USER]

Akhi u need to pay close attention to who benefits from all of the US adventures in the region. Look at Afghanistan and how karzai and the Americans had to rely on irans approval for him to be president. And what happened after sadam was taken out. Not to forget the fact that the whole Syrian red line bs that was thrown around, and the iranians have been given a free hand to do what they please.
The Arabs got the cash, but iranians are natural allies to the west. What we are shown is not what the reality is.

 

[Madali]

Oh get off your high horse!! You were sponsoring this shit before we ever set foot in Iraq. Who do you think was our co-sponsor in Afghan war in the 80s? Who do you think was one of only three countries that recognized the extremist Taliban government in Afghanistan? Trust me, nobody has funded more religious fundamentalism than the Saudis. 15 of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, Bin Ladin was a Saudi. If I were you, I'd take a good, hard look in the mirror.

We got rid of Saddam and the Iraqis were dancing in the streets. Did you forget how happily they were tearing down Saddam's statues? The fact that Iraqis couldn't come up with a consensus govt and move on with their lives post-Saddam, is not indictment of our actions but rather an indictment of a culture that is mired in petty feudalism and sectarianism. You are right that we have no clue about what we're doing in the Middle East. We keep expecting people to behave reasonably and show some sense of social order but that, obviously, is a huge mistake since authoritarianism seems to be the only thing that works for you. An entire culture that is devoid of any sense of community, that is so willing to decapitate people in public just because they didn't wipe their asses the exact same way as you, is not our doing but rather something that has existed before we ever set foot in the Middle East. It was masked by authoritarian regimes. Now people are just showing their true colors. Please don't blame us for your failings.

Oh by the way, proud people like the Arabs??Dude, if you had any pride, you would fought the first gulf war yourself, you wouldn't had us fight it for you. You'd be fighting ISIS right now and you'd have troops in Yemen. Guess what? You're 0 for 3.

Damn, this guy takes no prisoners.

 

[IR-TR]

What are you talking about? Are you drunk or what? Entire air force? Are you joking or what? Are you located on Mars? High on heroin? Pistachio? ISIS marching on Riyadh? What have you smoked? I want the shit that you just smoked.

Tell me did you pick it up from the Moroccan dealer in Amsterdam? You know those that always venture around the Red Light District looking for tourists they can mug?!

Are ISIS not the private Saudi Army because 2000 Saudi Arabians out of 50.000 ISIS members are part of it? Can you Farsis make up your mind?

Do you really believe that the 1.7 Billions Muslims will let KSA engulf in chaos? THe holy land? Do you think that the US will look silently at one of the most natural resource rich countries on earth being in such trouble? KSA gone entire GCC gone. Most rich area on the planet in terms of natural gas and oil. It would destroy the world economy. Cradle of Islam.

Man, you are really drunk. Remember what happened when a certain Saddam barked in 1991? It only took 1 small Saudi coastal town (Khafji) before hell broke lose. 24 hours later his army was gone.

Do you think that KSA is another Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria? Or lawless Iranian Baluchistan/Kurdistan? Man, man you need to study geopolitics a bit more. ISIS ain't buried in the Empty Quarter or in the few lakes there.

Haha, if you believe '1.7 billion muslims' are gonna do d!ck to help Saudi, you're sorely delusional. If anybody touches Saudi, it's sunni extremists, NOT some country like Iran. And guess what, the only saudi's worth a sh!t when fighting are the wahabbis. They will welcome them with open arms. It's not to happen today or tomorrow, but you've seen the master plan. Just wait it out.

Haha, if you believe '1.7 billion muslims' are gonna do d!ck to help Saudi, you're sorely delusional. If anybody touches Saudi, it's sunni extremists, NOT some country like Iran. And guess what, the only saudi's worth a sh!t when fighting are the wahabbis. They will welcome them with open arms. It's not to happen today or tomorrow, but you've seen the master plan. Just wait it out.

ISIS is at the very least 'helping' the US to achieve it's goals, which is helping contain Iranian influence and beat it back. Some people are delusional thinking Iran has it's tentacles everywhere. If anything, they are fighting a defensive war. Guess what happens if god forbid ISIS takes Baghdad. Next stop, carbombs in Iran.

 

[Madali]

ISIS is at the very least 'helping' the US to achieve it's goals, which is helping contain Iranian influence and beat it back. Some people are delusional thinking Iran has it's tentacles everywhere. If anything, they are fighting a defensive war. Guess what happens if god forbid ISIS takes Baghdad. Next stop, carbombs in Iran.

I've mentioned this again & again. If the Arab countries themselves get involved in Iraq and destroy ISIS, Iran wouldn't have to go in at all, and they wouldn't have to worry about Iran's influence. They do nothing, letting ISIS grow day by day, and when Iran gets involved to stop ISIS, they start complaining that Iran is everywhere.

 

[IR-TR]

I've mentioned this again & again. If the Arab countries themselves get involved in Iraq and destroy ISIS, Iran wouldn't have to go in at all, and they wouldn't have to worry about Iran's influence. They do nothing, letting ISIS grow day by day, and when Iran gets involved to stop ISIS, they start complaining that Iran is everywhere.

They can't do anything, even if they wanted. They don't have a viable fighting force. For now, the Arab nations think ISIS is helping them. Sure, Iran's influence is curbed. But guess who the next target is?? Worst case scenario for Iran is a couple of carbombs. GCC though, they're ripe for invasion by ISIS. It's up to debate if the US will even help them, their patiance with propping up the GCC is running thin. Saudi is on the target list to be broken up as welll, the rest of the GCC is too small to break up, but Bahrain will become majority rule. These are interesting times. Let's hope Iran can keep it's head up.

 

[Madali]

They can't do anything, even if they wanted. They don't have a viable fighting force. For now, the Arab nations think ISIS is helping them. Sure, Iran's influence is curbed. But guess who the next target is?? Worst case scenario for Iran is a couple of carbombs. GCC though, they're ripe for invasion by ISIS. It's up to debate if the US will even help them, their patiance with propping up the GCC is running thin. Saudi is on the target list to be broken up as welll, the rest of the GCC is too small to break up, but Bahrain will become majority rule. These are interesting times. Let's hope Iran can keep it's head up.

Also. what's even more important is a car bomb in Tehran isn't going to destabilize Iran, but imagine a bomb in a night club in Dubai full of foreign investors & western workers? Just one, with low number of deaths. This is a city where 10% is only local and rest are expatriates. How many will panic and leave? What will it do to Dubai's image?

Saudi's government is certainly less at risk when it comes to the consequences of terrorism if they occur, but smaller GCC countries like UAE, Qatar, and Kuwait will face drastic negative effects if it occurs.

However, for now, I don't think groups like ISIS see GCC as their enemy. They see them as potential source of funds, either indirectly from the government or direct sources of income from rich private GCC individuals. ISIS is different than Al Qaeda. The latter considered Shia's a secondary evil to the western occupiers & Israeli aggression. To ISIS, Shia takes the first priority. To blow up a Shia mosque is more important than to blow up a US convoy. That is, to scare shias is more important for them than to scare westerns.

What I mean is that the GCC also know this, and this is why there has been to concentrated effort to weaken ISIS from their side. But how long will this unspoken peace between ISIS & GCC go on for?

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Haha, if you believe '1.7 billion muslims' are gonna do d!ck to help Saudi, you're sorely delusional. If anybody touches Saudi, it's sunni extremists, NOT some country like Iran. And guess what, the only saudi's worth a sh!t when fighting are the wahabbis. They will welcome them with open arms. It's not to happen today or tomorrow, but you've seen the master plan. Just wait it out.



ISIS is at the very least 'helping' the US to achieve it's goals, which is helping contain Iranian influence and beat it back. Some people are delusional thinking Iran has it's tentacles everywhere. If anything, they are fighting a defensive war. Guess what happens if god forbid ISIS takes Baghdad. Next stop, carbombs in Iran.

Yes, keep believing that the Muslims and Arabs will look silently at the holy land being engulfed in conflict.

You were talking about delusion, Wilayat al-Faqih supporter? Or should I say Rafida?

@Madali

Sure Ahamadinejad, 1 car bomb in the GCC and the GCC stops being a 2 trillion dollar economy and the most visited region in the Muslim world etc. Everything will end. As seen in KSA a few days ago.

Yes, ISIS will invade KSA in the span on hours. I mean ISIS has existed for over 2 years now and we have already seen that they control all of the GCC unlike half of Iraq and Syria.



Besides care to tell me which countries and pilots were bombing ISIS in Syria months ago when Iran were nowhere to be seen?

Care to tell me what nationality those pilots below belong to?





Oh, I thought so. It never occurred, sorry

Oh get off your high horse!! You were sponsoring this shit before we ever set foot in Iraq. Who do you think was our co-sponsor in Afghan war in the 80s? Who do you think was one of only three countries that recognized the extremist Taliban government in Afghanistan? Trust me, nobody has funded more religious fundamentalism than the Saudis. 15 of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, Bin Ladin was a Saudi. If I were you, I'd take a good, hard look in the mirror.

We got rid of Saddam and the Iraqis were dancing in the streets. Did you forget how happily they were tearing down Saddam's statues? The fact that Iraqis couldn't come up with a consensus govt and move on with their lives post-Saddam, is not indictment of our actions but rather an indictment of a culture that is mired in petty feudalism and sectarianism. You are right that we have no clue about what we're doing in the Middle East. We keep expecting people to behave reasonably and show some sense of social order but that, obviously, is a huge mistake since authoritarianism seems to be the only thing that works for you. An entire culture that is devoid of any sense of community, that is so willing to decapitate people in public just because they didn't wipe their asses the exact same way as you, is not our doing but rather something that has existed before we ever set foot in the Middle East. It was masked by authoritarian regimes. Now people are just showing their true colors. Please don't blame us for your failings.

Oh by the way, proud people like the Arabs??Dude, if you had any pride, you would fought the first gulf war yourself, you wouldn't had us fight it for you. You'd be fighting ISIS right now and you'd have troops in Yemen. Guess what? You're 0 for 3.

Nonsense. You have not defined "extremism".

The war against the Soviets was legitimate and the Taliban had the majority support of the Afghans and it would not surprise me if that was the case today too.

OBL was half Yemeni and half Syrian. Try again. Most of the hijackers were of Yemeni origin too. Besides 15 people out of 30 million are irrelevant.

Yes, I am sure the Iraqis were very happy about your illegal invasion and its consequences.

Why when you were our mercenaries? Why should our young boys die when we can hire you? Is that not what you tend to say?

Oh, and actually Saudi Arabian troops fought in the Battle of Khafji. The only battle in KSA.

Look at what the last American soldiers says in this video below. "This was a Saudi victory with American support".

Also our ancestors created 3 of the 11 largest empires more than any ethnic group in the top 15.

We don't need any lectures about military history from anybody.

List of largest empires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Checkmate buddy.

 

[IR-TR]

Yes, keep believing that the Muslims and Arabs will look silently at the holy land being engulfed in conflict.

You were talking about delusion, Wilayat al-Faqih supporter? Or should I say Rafida?

@Madali

Sure Ahamadinejad, 1 car bomb in the GCC and the GCC stops being a 2 trillion dollar economy and the most visited region in the Muslim world etc. Everything will end. As seen in KSA a few days ago.

Yes, ISIS will invade KSA in the span on hours. I mean ISIS has existed for over 2 years now and we have already seen that they control all of the GCC unlike half of Iraq and Syria.



Besides care to tell me which countries and pilots were bombing ISIS in Syria months ago when Iran were nowhere to be seen?

Care to tell me what nationality those pilots below belong to?





Oh, I thought so. It never occurred, sorry



Nonsense. You have not defined "extremism".

The war against the Soviets was legitimate and the Taliban had the majority support of the Afghans and it would not surprise me if that was the case today too.

OBL was half Yemeni and half Syrian. Try again. Most of the hijackers were of Yemeni origin too. Besides 15 people out of 30 million are irrelevant.

Yes, I am sure the Iraqis were very happy about your illegal invasion and its consequences.

Why when you were our mercenaries? Why should our young boys die when we can hire you? Is that not what you tend to say?

Oh, and actually Saudi Arabian troops fought in the Battle of Khafji. The only battle in KSA.

Look at what the last American soldiers says in this video below. "This was a Saudi victory with American support".

Also our ancestors created 3 of the 11 largest empires more than any ethnic group in the top 15.

We don't need any lectures about military history from anybody.

List of largest empires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Checkmate buddy.

Not a single Muslim in the world has 1 good word to say about Saudi's princes and kings. Sure, they'll defend medina and Mekka, but not Riyadh, or the luxury palaces of the so called 'royalty'. We'll see. In the meantime, keep reposting pics of F-15 pilots, who couldn't fly for one minute without western contractors. Holy land.. Hah! It's decripit land, stamped on by unholy people.

Also. what's even more important is a car bomb in Tehran isn't going to destabilize Iran, but imagine a bomb in a night club in Dubai full of foreign investors & western workers? Just one, with low number of deaths. This is a city where 10% is only local and rest are expatriates. How many will panic and leave? What will it do to Dubai's image?

Saudi's government is certainly less at risk when it comes to the consequences of terrorism if they occur, but smaller GCC countries like UAE, Qatar, and Kuwait will face drastic negative effects if it occurs.

However, for now, I don't think groups like ISIS see GCC as their enemy. They see them as potential source of funds, either indirectly from the government or direct sources of income from rich private GCC individuals. ISIS is different than Al Qaeda. The latter considered Shia's a secondary evil to the western occupiers & Israeli aggression. To ISIS, Shia takes the first priority. To blow up a Shia mosque is more important than to blow up a US convoy. That is, to scare shias is more important for them than to scare westerns.

What I mean is that the GCC also know this, and this is why there has been to concentrated effort to weaken ISIS from their side. But how long will this unspoken peace between ISIS & GCC go on for?

True. I say let ISIS go into the GCC. That way Eastern and Southern Saudi can be cut away and Bahrain too. Then let's entrench. Let's see what the camel jockeys can do without their oil wealth.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Not a single Muslim in the world has 1 good word to say about Saudi's princes and kings. Sure, they'll defend medina and Mekka, but not Riyadh, or the luxury palaces of the so called 'royalty'. We'll see. In the meantime, keep reposting pics of F-15 pilots, who couldn't fly for one minute without western contractors. Holy land.. Hah! It's decripit land, stamped on by unholy people.



True. I say let ISIS go into the GCC. That way Eastern and Southern Saudi can be cut away and Bahrain too. Then let's entrench. Let's see what the camel jockeys can do without their oil wealth.

Who cares about the House of Saud? I don't. The holy land is in the heart of all 1.7 billion Muslims. It's holy to them and danger to the holy sites and land will obviously be a red line that won't be crossed.

You are a joke. The Saudi Arabian Air Force is one of the best air forces in the region and Muslim world. Widely recognized as such. No Westerners or anyone else is flying any KSA fighter jets or planes. You are either very ignorant or just stupid. I tend to believe that it's a combination

Speaking about riches, the most corrupt regime on the planet is the one ruling your failure of a country so don't make me laugh boy. Along with your North Korean ALLIES. You know those that support Al-Assad politically too.

Your corruption rank is 136.

KSA's 55. Meaning almost three times as good as that of Iran.

Transparency International - Country Profiles

Transparency International - Country Profiles

You are a joke.

Better accept the sad reality and that's also why your father ran away like a coward from his country and you ended up in Europe polluting it.

 

[U8200]

I don't trust Obama. He's playing a strange game in Syria and Iraq.

In Iraq you can say the US is clearly operating against ISIS and joining up with Iran whom Obama seems to have a strange fascination with. He's either desperate for a legacy and being seen as the president that brings Iran back from isolation, or he's fallen for their taqqiya hook, line and sinker.

In Syria however, there seems to be a double game. Targeting ISIS in Syria only as a way to affect them in Iraq, rather than affecting their progress in Syria.

Perhaps there's a feeling that the Iraqi government is legitimate and must be protected, whilst Assad is illegitimate and should win/fail on his own.

Obama is a disaster for the M.E though.

 

[IR-TR]

Who cares about the House of Saud? I don't. The holy land is in the heart of all 1.7 billion Muslims. It's holy to them and danger to the holy sites and land will obviously be a red line that won't be crossed.

You are a joke. The Saudi Arabian Air Force is one of the best air forces in the region and Muslim world. Widely recognized as such. No Westerners or anyone else is flying any KSA fighter jets or planes. You are either very ignorant or just stupid. I tend to believe that it's a combination

Speaking about riches, the most corrupt regime on the planet is the one ruling your failure of a country so don't make me laugh boy. Along with your North Korean ALLIES. You know those that support Al-Assad politically too.

Your corruption rank is 136.

KSA's 55. Meaning almost three times as good as that of Iran.

Transparency International - Country Profiles

Transparency International - Country Profiles

You are a joke.

Better accept the sad reality and that's also why your father ran away like a coward from his country and you ended up in Europe polluting it.

Saudi Arabia has no government, it has princes who do the work. What do you have, like 3 ministries? And no, I didn't say foreign pilots fly Saudi jets, even though many do say that. I said foreign contractors keep them running. Prove me otherwise? There probably aren't even 2 saudi maintenance people in the whole country. All Boeing contractors.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Saudi Arabia has no government, it has princes who do the work. What do you have, like 3 ministries? And no, I didn't say foreign pilots fly Saudi jets, even though many do say that. I said foreign contractors keep them running. Prove me otherwise? There probably aren't even 2 saudi maintenance people in the whole country. All Boeing contractors.

You might take a look at the ministers in KSA. Most are not from the House of Saud family. Dude, you really need to learn a HELL lot about KSA and the Arab world as a whole.

Asking some Berber Moroccan migrant in the Netherlands that hardly is able to count to 10 in Arabic is not the best source to learn more from.

Anyway keep ignoring the reality. Every time I prove you wrong with independent sources it's always the same poor comebacks.

May I refresh your memory. Your country is number 133 in terms of corruption according to Transparency International (leading firm in the world on this field).

KSA number 55 in comparison. Over twice as good. Yet you are here speaking about corruption. Hilarious.