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The US must avoid war with China over Taiwan at all costs

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The US must avoid war with China over Taiwan at all costs

Lt Col Daniel L Davis (ret)
Tue, October 5, 2021, 6:18 AM


<span>Photograph: Taiwan Ministry Of National Defense/EPA</span>

Photograph: Taiwan Ministry Of National Defense/EPA
Since last Friday, the People’s Republic of China has launched a total of 155 warplanes – the most ever over four consecutive days – into Taiwan’s Air Defense Identification Zone; Ned Price said the state department was “very concerned”. There have been more than 500 such flights through nine months this year, as opposed to 300 all of last year.
Before war comes to the Indo-Pacific and Washington faces pressure to fight a potentially existential war, American policymakers must face the cold, hard reality that fighting China over Taiwan risks an almost-certain military defeat – and gambles we won’t stumble into a nuclear war.
Bluntly put, America should refuse to be drawn into a no-win war with Beijing. It needs to be said up front: there would be no palatable choice for Washington if China finally makes good on its decades-long threat to take Taiwan by force. Either choose a bad, bitter-tasting outcome or a self-destructive one in which our existence is put at risk.
The prevailing mood in Washington among officials and opinion leaders is to fight if China attempts to conquer Taiwan by force. In a speech at the Center for Strategic Studies last Friday, the deputy secretary of defense, Kathleen Hicks, said that if Beijing invades Taiwan, “we have a significant amount of capability forward in the region to tamp down any such potential”.

Either Hicks is unaware of how little wartime capacity we actually have forward deployed in the Indo-Pacific or she’s unaware of how significant China’s capacity is off its shores, but whichever the case, we are in no way guaranteed to “tamp down” a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.
Earlier this year, Senator Rick Scott and Representative Guy Reschenthaler introduced the Taiwan Invasion Prevention Act which, Representative Reschenthaler said, would authorize “the president to use military force to defend Taiwan against a direct attack”. In the event of an actual attack, there would be enormous pressure to fast-track such a bill to authorize Biden to act. We must resist this temptation.
As I have previously detailed, there is no rational scenario in which the United States could end up in a better, more secure place after a war with China. The best that could be hoped for would be a pyrrhic victory in which we are saddled with becoming the permanent defense force for Taiwan (costing us hundreds of billions a year and the equally permanent requirement to be ready for the inevitable Chinese counter-attack).
The most likely outcome would be a conventional defeat of our forces in which China ultimately succeeds, despite our intervention – at the cost of large numbers of our jets being shot down, ships being sunk, and thousands of our service personnel killed. But the worst case is a conventional war spirals out of control and escalates into a nuclear exchange.
That leaves as the best option something most Americans find unsatisfying: refuse to engage in direct combat against China on behalf of Taiwan. Doing so will allow the United States to emerge on the other side of a China/Taiwan war with our global military and economic power intact.
It would take Beijing decades to overcome the losses incurred from a war to take Taiwan, even if Beijing triumphs
That’s not to suggest we stand passively aside and let China run over Taiwan with impunity. The most effective course of action for Washington would be to condemn China in the strongest possible terms, lead a global movement that will enact crippling sanctions against Beijing, and make them an international pariah. China’s pain wouldn’t be limited to economics, however.
It would take Beijing decades to overcome the losses incurred from a war to take Taiwan, even if Beijing triumphs. The United States and our western allies, on the other hand, would remain at full military power, dominate the international business markets, and have the moral high ground to keep China hemmed in like nothing that presently exists. Xi would be seen as an unquestioned aggressor, even by other Asian regimes, and the fallout against China could knock them back decades. Our security would be vastly improved from what it is today – and incalculably higher than if we foolishly tried to fight a war with China.
Publicly, Washington should continue to embrace strategic ambiguity but privately convey to Taiwanese leaders that we will not fight a war with China. That would greatly incentivize Taipei to make whatever political moves and engage in any negotiation necessary to ensure the perpetuation of the status quo. The blunt, hard reality is that a Taiwan maintaining the status quo is far better than a smoldering wreck of an island conquered by Beijing.
The only way the US could have our security harmed would be to allow ourselves to be drawn into a war we’re likely to lose over an issue peripheral to US security. In the event China takes Taiwan by force, Washington should stay out of the fray and lead a global effort to ostracize China, helping ensure our security will be strengthened for a generation to come.
  • Daniel L Davis is a senior fellow for defense priorities and a former lieutenant colonel in the US army who deployed into combat zones four times. He is the author of The Eleventh Hour in 2020 America
@MH.Yang @Deino @HRK @KAL-EL @raptor22 @bilibili @tower9 @Waqas @Khan vilatey @The SC @nang2 @raptor22 @aziqbal @F-22Raptor @Hakikat ve Hikmet @VCheng @K_Bin_W @Falconless @Windjammer @JamD @Oracle @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE @Waterboy @HammerHead081 @Path-Finder @Maarkhoor @POPEYE-Sailor

Opinions?
 
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" Before war comes to the Indo-Pacific and Washington faces pressure to fight a potentially existential war, American policymakers must face the cold, hard reality that fighting China over Taiwan risks an almost-certain military defeat "

Absolutely, and its very simple, Why fight a war you cannot win.... US should stick to its old tactics of using proxies and terrorists against 3rd world helpless countries who cannot hit back..
 
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" Before war comes to the Indo-Pacific and Washington faces pressure to fight a potentially existential war, American policymakers must face the cold, hard reality that fighting China over Taiwan risks an almost-certain military defeat "

Absolutely, and its very simple, Why fight a war you cannot win.... US should stick to its old tactics of using proxies and terrorists against 3rd world helpless countries who cannot hit back..

I hope you understood the actual reasoning, it's limited to SCS. China is a bigger power and Taiwan is ONLY 110 miles (about 150 KM) away. So yes, any nation in another big country's backyard would have a chance to lose. But that's also where QUAD comes in. The real risk is it becoming a nuclear war.
The US defense heads are openly saying that the US is ready to defend any Taiwan take over attempt
 
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A very simple truth. The USA believes that Taiwanese are American dogs, not American are Taiwanese dogs. The Taiwanese should die for the interests of the USA, not Americans die for the interests of the Taiwanese. The USA hopes that Taiwan will become China's Afghanistan, not USA will become Taiwan's Louis XVI.
If the PRC is ready to recover Taiwan, it will first expand its nuclear bombs to thousands.



Those American netizens who want to fight a nuclear war for Taiwan and China have forgotten one thing. The Wall Street chaebol is the ruler of the USA, not you.
Maybe you don't mind destroying each other with China, but Wall Street chaebols mind. Chaebols are chaebols in the USA, and in other countries also are chaebols. So they can actually accept the failure of the USA. Not like you, their lives are very valuable, so they won't go crazy.
 
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I hope you understood the actual reasoning, it's limited to SCS. China is a bigger power and Taiwan is ONLY 110 miles (about 150 KM) away. So yes, any nation in another big country's backyard would have a chance to lose. But that's also where QUAD comes in. The real risk is it becoming a nuclear war.
The US defense heads are openly saying that the US is ready to defend any Taiwan take over attempt

This is all noise, kind of woulda shoulda and coulda - Forget Taiwan it stands no chance the author is talking about US vs China.. And below is the gist in bold or there is a little test, Taiwan declares independence and becomes a full UN member and calls Chinas bluff once and for all.

"hard reality that fighting China over Taiwan risks an almost-certain military defeat "
A very simple truth. The USA believes that Taiwanese are American dogs, not American are Taiwanese dogs. The Taiwanese should die for the interests of the USA, not Americans die for the interests of the Taiwanese. The USA hopes that Taiwan will become China's Afghanistan, not USA will become Taiwan's Louis XVI.
If the PRC is ready to recover Taiwan, it will first expand its nuclear bombs to thousands.
Agreed and agreed - Nukes are very important with 2nd strike capability
 
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The US must avoid war with China over Taiwan at all costs

Lt Col Daniel L Davis (ret)
Tue, October 5, 2021, 6:18 AM


<span>Photograph: Taiwan Ministry Of National Defense/EPA</span>

Photograph: Taiwan Ministry Of National Defense/EPA
Since last Friday, the People’s Republic of China has launched a total of 155 warplanes – the most ever over four consecutive days – into Taiwan’s Air Defense Identification Zone; Ned Price said the state department was “very concerned”. There have been more than 500 such flights through nine months this year, as opposed to 300 all of last year.
Before war comes to the Indo-Pacific and Washington faces pressure to fight a potentially existential war, American policymakers must face the cold, hard reality that fighting China over Taiwan risks an almost-certain military defeat – and gambles we won’t stumble into a nuclear war.
Bluntly put, America should refuse to be drawn into a no-win war with Beijing. It needs to be said up front: there would be no palatable choice for Washington if China finally makes good on its decades-long threat to take Taiwan by force. Either choose a bad, bitter-tasting outcome or a self-destructive one in which our existence is put at risk.
The prevailing mood in Washington among officials and opinion leaders is to fight if China attempts to conquer Taiwan by force. In a speech at the Center for Strategic Studies last Friday, the deputy secretary of defense, Kathleen Hicks, said that if Beijing invades Taiwan, “we have a significant amount of capability forward in the region to tamp down any such potential”.

Either Hicks is unaware of how little wartime capacity we actually have forward deployed in the Indo-Pacific or she’s unaware of how significant China’s capacity is off its shores, but whichever the case, we are in no way guaranteed to “tamp down” a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.
Earlier this year, Senator Rick Scott and Representative Guy Reschenthaler introduced the Taiwan Invasion Prevention Act which, Representative Reschenthaler said, would authorize “the president to use military force to defend Taiwan against a direct attack”. In the event of an actual attack, there would be enormous pressure to fast-track such a bill to authorize Biden to act. We must resist this temptation.
As I have previously detailed, there is no rational scenario in which the United States could end up in a better, more secure place after a war with China. The best that could be hoped for would be a pyrrhic victory in which we are saddled with becoming the permanent defense force for Taiwan (costing us hundreds of billions a year and the equally permanent requirement to be ready for the inevitable Chinese counter-attack).
The most likely outcome would be a conventional defeat of our forces in which China ultimately succeeds, despite our intervention – at the cost of large numbers of our jets being shot down, ships being sunk, and thousands of our service personnel killed. But the worst case is a conventional war spirals out of control and escalates into a nuclear exchange.
That leaves as the best option something most Americans find unsatisfying: refuse to engage in direct combat against China on behalf of Taiwan. Doing so will allow the United States to emerge on the other side of a China/Taiwan war with our global military and economic power intact.

That’s not to suggest we stand passively aside and let China run over Taiwan with impunity. The most effective course of action for Washington would be to condemn China in the strongest possible terms, lead a global movement that will enact crippling sanctions against Beijing, and make them an international pariah. China’s pain wouldn’t be limited to economics, however.
It would take Beijing decades to overcome the losses incurred from a war to take Taiwan, even if Beijing triumphs. The United States and our western allies, on the other hand, would remain at full military power, dominate the international business markets, and have the moral high ground to keep China hemmed in like nothing that presently exists. Xi would be seen as an unquestioned aggressor, even by other Asian regimes, and the fallout against China could knock them back decades. Our security would be vastly improved from what it is today – and incalculably higher than if we foolishly tried to fight a war with China.
Publicly, Washington should continue to embrace strategic ambiguity but privately convey to Taiwanese leaders that we will not fight a war with China. That would greatly incentivize Taipei to make whatever political moves and engage in any negotiation necessary to ensure the perpetuation of the status quo. The blunt, hard reality is that a Taiwan maintaining the status quo is far better than a smoldering wreck of an island conquered by Beijing.
The only way the US could have our security harmed would be to allow ourselves to be drawn into a war we’re likely to lose over an issue peripheral to US security. In the event China takes Taiwan by force, Washington should stay out of the fray and lead a global effort to ostracize China, helping ensure our security will be strengthened for a generation to come.
  • Daniel L Davis is a senior fellow for defense priorities and a former lieutenant colonel in the US army who deployed into combat zones four times. He is the author of The Eleventh Hour in 2020 America
@MH.Yang @Deino @HRK @KAL-EL @raptor22 @bilibili @tower9 @Waqas @Khan vilatey @The SC @nang2 @raptor22 @aziqbal @F-22Raptor @Hakikat ve Hikmet @VCheng @K_Bin_W @Falconless @Windjammer @JamD @Oracle @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE @Waterboy @HammerHead081 @Path-Finder @Maarkhoor @POPEYE-Sailor

Opinions?





america is only good at murdering millions of innocent Muslims who are from defenceless weak nations. They cannot fight against REAL military forces. Even then they got defeated by the Taliban.
 
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This is all noise, kind of woulda shoulda and coulda - Forget Taiwan it stands no chance the author is talking about US vs China.. And below is the gist in bold or there is a little test, Taiwan declares independence and becomes a full UN member and calls Chinas bluff once and for all.

"hard reality that fighting China over Taiwan risks an almost-certain military defeat "

Agreed and agreed - Nukes are very important with 2nd strike capability
You must understand two things with reference to usa and China.

1) US doesnot go to war to win ,they go to war for dominance.
2) China ,specifically CCP will not go to war if it make China any weaker after the war is over,it doesnot natter if China can win.
 
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The risk of war is because of China’s minimal nuclear warhead policy and the No-First-Use nuclear policy. These two policies project weakness to the US. So the US is looking at the risk vs reward analysis and thinking a hot war can be won without cataclysmic destruction to the US.

If China had a nuclear arsenal similar to US/Russia, and a nuclear first-strike policy, a hot war would not even be contemplated by even the biggest war hawks in the US. The cost of a hot war would be unbearable for the US.

Only thing that can deter the US is nuclear weapons. They aren’t afraid of aircraft carriers. Aircraft carriers are good for power projection and psychological messages in times of peace. How much damage can even 20 aircraft carriers do to the US compared to nuclear weapons?

China need a nuclear arsenal between 2,000 to 5,000 to be safe. Also continue to develop and produce more DF-41 road-mobile ICBM, DF-45 Silo-ICBM, JL-3 SLBM, CH-AS-X-13 ALBM, Type 096 SSBN, H-20 strategic stealth bomber.

Plus develop and produce Anti-Ballistic Missile defenses HQ-19 (THAAD equivalent), HQ-26 (SM-3 equivalent), HQ-29 (PAC-3 equivalent).
 
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Opinions?

War is simply policy by other means. The underlying US national interest goals regarding China must always be served, whatever it takes, in terms of the policies effectuating this pursuit.
 
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You must understand two things with reference to usa and China.

1) US doesnot go to war to win ,they go to war for dominance.
2) China ,specifically CCP will not go to war if it make China any weaker after the war is over,it doesnot natter if China can win.
I fully understand why US go to war, BTW you cannot dominate if you cannot win.. US will always go to war if the opponent is helpless and weak....PEROID.. Other wise its nothing more than shoulda, woulda and coulda and and lot of noise on the internet.
 
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Saying "at all costs" means he got no spine and no principle.
 
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I hope you understood the actual reasoning, it's limited to SCS. China is a bigger power and Taiwan is ONLY 110 miles (about 150 KM) away. So yes, any nation in another big country's backyard would have a chance to lose. But that's also where QUAD comes in. The real risk is it becoming a nuclear war.
The US defense heads are openly saying that the US is ready to defend any Taiwan take over attempt
Nice shifting goalpost to do some face saving for american and fanboy like you. :lol:

A nuclear war with China will be Armageddon. China definitely has the ability to turn world Into a waste living space.
 
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The US must avoid war with China over Taiwan at all costs

Lt Col Daniel L Davis (ret)
Tue, October 5, 2021, 6:18 AM


<span>Photograph: Taiwan Ministry Of National Defense/EPA</span>

Photograph: Taiwan Ministry Of National Defense/EPA
Since last Friday, the People’s Republic of China has launched a total of 155 warplanes – the most ever over four consecutive days – into Taiwan’s Air Defense Identification Zone; Ned Price said the state department was “very concerned”. There have been more than 500 such flights through nine months this year, as opposed to 300 all of last year.
Before war comes to the Indo-Pacific and Washington faces pressure to fight a potentially existential war, American policymakers must face the cold, hard reality that fighting China over Taiwan risks an almost-certain military defeat – and gambles we won’t stumble into a nuclear war.
Bluntly put, America should refuse to be drawn into a no-win war with Beijing. It needs to be said up front: there would be no palatable choice for Washington if China finally makes good on its decades-long threat to take Taiwan by force. Either choose a bad, bitter-tasting outcome or a self-destructive one in which our existence is put at risk.
The prevailing mood in Washington among officials and opinion leaders is to fight if China attempts to conquer Taiwan by force. In a speech at the Center for Strategic Studies last Friday, the deputy secretary of defense, Kathleen Hicks, said that if Beijing invades Taiwan, “we have a significant amount of capability forward in the region to tamp down any such potential”.

Either Hicks is unaware of how little wartime capacity we actually have forward deployed in the Indo-Pacific or she’s unaware of how significant China’s capacity is off its shores, but whichever the case, we are in no way guaranteed to “tamp down” a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.
Earlier this year, Senator Rick Scott and Representative Guy Reschenthaler introduced the Taiwan Invasion Prevention Act which, Representative Reschenthaler said, would authorize “the president to use military force to defend Taiwan against a direct attack”. In the event of an actual attack, there would be enormous pressure to fast-track such a bill to authorize Biden to act. We must resist this temptation.
As I have previously detailed, there is no rational scenario in which the United States could end up in a better, more secure place after a war with China. The best that could be hoped for would be a pyrrhic victory in which we are saddled with becoming the permanent defense force for Taiwan (costing us hundreds of billions a year and the equally permanent requirement to be ready for the inevitable Chinese counter-attack).
The most likely outcome would be a conventional defeat of our forces in which China ultimately succeeds, despite our intervention – at the cost of large numbers of our jets being shot down, ships being sunk, and thousands of our service personnel killed. But the worst case is a conventional war spirals out of control and escalates into a nuclear exchange.
That leaves as the best option something most Americans find unsatisfying: refuse to engage in direct combat against China on behalf of Taiwan. Doing so will allow the United States to emerge on the other side of a China/Taiwan war with our global military and economic power intact.

That’s not to suggest we stand passively aside and let China run over Taiwan with impunity. The most effective course of action for Washington would be to condemn China in the strongest possible terms, lead a global movement that will enact crippling sanctions against Beijing, and make them an international pariah. China’s pain wouldn’t be limited to economics, however.
It would take Beijing decades to overcome the losses incurred from a war to take Taiwan, even if Beijing triumphs. The United States and our western allies, on the other hand, would remain at full military power, dominate the international business markets, and have the moral high ground to keep China hemmed in like nothing that presently exists. Xi would be seen as an unquestioned aggressor, even by other Asian regimes, and the fallout against China could knock them back decades. Our security would be vastly improved from what it is today – and incalculably higher than if we foolishly tried to fight a war with China.
Publicly, Washington should continue to embrace strategic ambiguity but privately convey to Taiwanese leaders that we will not fight a war with China. That would greatly incentivize Taipei to make whatever political moves and engage in any negotiation necessary to ensure the perpetuation of the status quo. The blunt, hard reality is that a Taiwan maintaining the status quo is far better than a smoldering wreck of an island conquered by Beijing.
The only way the US could have our security harmed would be to allow ourselves to be drawn into a war we’re likely to lose over an issue peripheral to US security. In the event China takes Taiwan by force, Washington should stay out of the fray and lead a global effort to ostracize China, helping ensure our security will be strengthened for a generation to come.
  • Daniel L Davis is a senior fellow for defense priorities and a former lieutenant colonel in the US army who deployed into combat zones four times. He is the author of The Eleventh Hour in 2020 America
@MH.Yang @Deino @HRK @KAL-EL @raptor22 @bilibili @tower9 @Waqas @Khan vilatey @The SC @nang2 @raptor22 @aziqbal @F-22Raptor @Hakikat ve Hikmet @VCheng @K_Bin_W @Falconless @Windjammer @JamD @Oracle @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE @Waterboy @HammerHead081 @Path-Finder @Maarkhoor @POPEYE-Sailor

Opinions?
This is what I said to you this week in my post. As it is near impossible for China to lose a war against Taiwan even with American help. It will extremely expensive for China, politically, economically and militarily to invade Taiwan. There is no economic benefit for China to change the status quo rather than moving this argument down by another 10-15 years when it will have overwhelming superiority in the South China Sea.

The thing that will ward off all these tensions and secure peace in the Asia pacific region would be for China to take over most of north India with its Allies Pakistan , Bhutan etc. liberation of IOKashmir guarantees china’s CPEC the life line of China, an expanded BRI with Afghanistan and Central Asia guarantees cheap energy and significant regional trade and European trade.

The only reason why China has not taken over India is the rearming and modernization of the Pakistani military to change the parity between india and Pakistan. by start to mid of 2023 this would be complete. If india wants to make a move the next 18 to 24 months are the window

K
 
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China will be the only losers if they initiate war because they would be giving USA a reason to wage war. This is all USA wants, a reason to fight militarily as they are failing miserably in their trade wars/economics/geopolitics.
 
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I don't think any side in this actually wants war. That's why the red lines established by the One China policy and the 1992 consensus between both sides have been very important. If the US and the DPP want to arbitrarily change challenge these red lines to troll China, there will be grave consequences and it would be a very foolish decision.
 
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