The United States of Islam

[LeGenD]

They wouldn't. But come to think of it. If a new bloc has the major powers backing it; UN will lose its footing. Its a defunct organisation anyway. The new blocs headquarter can be given to China or Russia doesn't matter. The world needs a 180 in power and needs it now.

Recall League of Nations? It failed just like UN. Potential replacement for UN will be another failure in the making.

This world is increasingly interests driven, at corporate level and also at state level. And these interests either converge or diverge around the world due to pressures of competition, economic factors, political considerations, and even ideological considerations. Everybody wants to earn, grow, become strong and possibly victimize others. Human rights take a back seat in this type of world unfortunately. Your faith in powerhungry countries such as Russia and China, is absolutely misplaced - both are only interested in serving their interests (economic and political) much like USA. None of these great powers will make much difference.

WE might need a global human rights council in which all countries have equal representation, and are able to elect a panel of judges who shall have the authority to study any case of human rights abuses in any part of the world and pass a judgement which should be binding on all members. Excuses such as addressing terrorism, fundamentalism, radicalism and/or internal matter, won't apply. But not many countries will sign up for this kind of body.

 

[Hex0maniac]

There is nothing wrong in being secular.

there is nothing wrong with calling gold a gold. giving rights to all non believers is a must for any good Muslim leader.

 

[Enigma SIG]

Recall League of Nations? It failed just like UN. Potential replacement for UN will be another failure in the making.

The reason why I excluded Europe/America from the bloc I proposed.
The old guard has failed. League of Nations was just a precursor to the UN without the backing of the major powers at the time.

 

[Adonis]

Turkey, Malaysia, and Pakistan have recently cooperated in trying to combat Islamophobia and addressing Muslim issues. They are even collaborating on a new English-language channel on Islam and Muslims for global audience.

The three countries should consider a phased approach to creating a genuine Islamic bloc.
This is fantastical, yes -- but you have to envision something, spread the seed of an idea and it can take a life of its own. My example is below. How would others in this forum do it differently? Don't just criticize -- that's easy, provide solutions to those problems -- that's harder.

Phase 1 - Initiation
------------------------------------------
Members: Turkey, Malaysia, Pakistan
------------------------------------------
Trade Concessions
Tourism Preferences
Sister Cities
Yearly Heads of State Forum
Disaster/Emergency Support

Phase 2 - Indoctrination
------------------------------------------
Members: Turkey, Malaysia, Pakistan
New Members: Oman, Indonesia, Nigeria
------------------------------------------
University Exchange
Islamic Cohesion Indoctrination
Sunni/Shia Outreach & Unity Programs
Islamic Racial Equality Indoctrination
Film, Music, Literature, Television Festivals

Phase 3 - Economic Bloc
------------------------------------------
Members: Turkey, Malaysia, Pakistan, Oman, Indonesia, Nigeria
New Members: Iran, Iraq, Bahrain, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait
------------------------------------------
Islamic Banking
Investment Preferences
Economic Preferences
Transportation Agreements
Sports Leagues/Islamic Union Games

Phase 4 - Cooperation
------------------------------------------
Members:
New Members: Central Asia + North Africa
------------------------------------------
Minority Equality Initatives
Military Exercises
Counter Terrorism
Free Trade Agreement
Joint Research & Development

Phase 5 - Foreign Policy
------------------------------------------
Members:
New Members:
------------------------------------------
University System
Muslim Issues (Palestine, Kashmir, Kurds, Uighurs etc.)
Council for Foreign Policy
UN Bloc Voting
Humanitarian Missions Force
International Trade with other Blocs

Should be posted under "Stupid and Funny" section.

With Muslims killing Muslims all around the world, with divided Middle East, with Shia Sunni,Ahmadi, Bora conflicts, with Greed and Corruption rampant in most of these Muslim/Islamic republics...you are dreaming of an Islamic Bock.

Tell me a period in whole history when Muslims were united.....they have been slaying each other for crown, wealth, power....Oh yes, long back Arabs invaded and won large swaths of lands in middle east, Africa and south western Europe....that was the only time there was a Muslim block called Caliphate...after that they kept on sinking in Abyss.

 

[313ghazi]

Should be posted under "Stupid and Funny" section.

With Muslims killing Muslims all around the world, with divided Middle East, with Shia Sunni,Ahmadi, Bora conflicts, with Greed and Corruption rampant in most of these Muslim/Islamic republics...you are dreaming of an Islamic Bock.

Tell me a period in whole history when Muslims were united.....they have been slaying each other for crown, wealth, power....Oh yes, long back Arabs invaded and won large swaths of lands in middle east, Africa and south western Europe....that was the only time there was a Muslim block called Caliphate...after that they kept on sinking in Abyss.

You didn't hear about the Ottoman Caliphate then? Lasted for over 400 years, ended less than 100 years ago.

 

[Musafir117]

The fantasy lives on !!

Stupid is as stupid does ~ forest gump

How dare he got 22 likes one positive (*^^*)
Well, am still interested if it’s without useless Arabs. And include China,Lankans anyone else but not Arabs.

 

[Signalian]

Turkey, Malaysia, and Pakistan have recently cooperated in trying to combat Islamophobia and addressing Muslim issues. They are even collaborating on a new English-language channel on Islam and Muslims for global audience.

The three countries should consider a phased approach to creating a genuine Islamic bloc.
This is fantastical, yes -- but you have to envision something, spread the seed of an idea and it can take a life of its own. My example is below. How would others in this forum do it differently? Don't just criticize -- that's easy, provide solutions to those problems -- that's harder.

Phase 1 - Initiation
------------------------------------------
Members: Turkey, Malaysia, Pakistan
------------------------------------------
Trade Concessions
Tourism Preferences
Sister Cities
Yearly Heads of State Forum
Disaster/Emergency Support

Phase 2 - Indoctrination
------------------------------------------
Members: Turkey, Malaysia, Pakistan
New Members: Oman, Indonesia, Nigeria
------------------------------------------
University Exchange
Islamic Cohesion Indoctrination
Sunni/Shia Outreach & Unity Programs
Islamic Racial Equality Indoctrination
Film, Music, Literature, Television Festivals

Phase 3 - Economic Bloc
------------------------------------------
Members: Turkey, Malaysia, Pakistan, Oman, Indonesia, Nigeria
New Members: Iran, Iraq, Bahrain, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait
------------------------------------------
Islamic Banking
Investment Preferences
Economic Preferences
Transportation Agreements
Sports Leagues/Islamic Union Games

Phase 4 - Cooperation
------------------------------------------
Members:
New Members: Central Asia + North Africa
------------------------------------------
Minority Equality Initatives
Military Exercises
Counter Terrorism
Free Trade Agreement
Joint Research & Development

Phase 5 - Foreign Policy
------------------------------------------
Members:
New Members:
------------------------------------------
University System
Muslim Issues (Palestine, Kashmir, Kurds, Uighurs etc.)
Council for Foreign Policy
UN Bloc Voting
Humanitarian Missions Force
International Trade with other Blocs

who is going to lead this consortium ?

 

[313ghazi]

It's a noble thought but it won't work YET.

Why not?

1. The leadership of the vast majority of Muslim countries is part of the corrupt elites responsible for the plight of Muslim countries. The vast majority of our countries have not achieved anything close to their potential. These people are interested in themselves and their own pockets.

2. The majority of Muslims are uneducated or under educated and don't know about the benefits of political/economic/militart unity or it's history and value. They are all taught by the mullah class to look at anyone other than themselves with suspicion.

3. The educated amongst us, are also fully signed up to capitalism and nationalism, anything that is different to that, potentially threatens their comfortable existence and therefore will not support any such notion.

How to rectify this?

Many of the things i will suggest are already happening but need to be rolled out wider.

1. Greater education. This ranges from basic literacy through to people writing political thesis or thinktanks doing funded research on the benefits and the steps that could be taken to have greater cohesion between Muslim states. This information must be spread through the different levels of society so this is an idea that is not just at the fringes of society.

2. Practice what you preach. Within our own homes, within our own nations we must show unity and a spirit of cooperation for the greater good. Only when this is engrained within us and becomes part of our ethos can we really roll it out further.

3. Add value to yourself and your nation. Nobody wants to be trading partner or in cultural exchange or military ally of someone who has nothing to add to the partnership. When the EU was formed, initially it was made of nations in similar economic positions. New member states had to meet certain requirements to enter.

What next?

1. Follow the money. Trade relations between nations are the strongest and most likely bond to form.

2. Start local and aim for the low hanging fruit. We are next door to Afghanistan and Iran, we should try to build economic, cultural and security ties with them. It's easier than building those ties with Algeria who are in the other side of the world. We have strong ties with Turkey and Saudi Arabia, we should continue to work on those.

3. Be pragmatic. Not everyone has to be friends with everyone, nobody has to be all in, do what you can get done with whoever you can get it done with. Don't turn down economic ties because someone won't offer visa exchange or whatever.

4. Work together on common interests. There is no point forming a partnership with Iran to liberate Palestine. Lets focus on security on our own border. If Russian oil is going to flow through Afghanistan and Pakistan into the Arabian sea, lets work on a deal to get the best transit price together - rather than individually.

5. Start small but aim big. We might start with preferential trading rates, but lets work towards FTA and then extend it to include more nations. Maybe have our own joint currency in the future, like our own euro?

6. Don't try to do the impossible. Iran and Saudi will never be friends, Shia Iran will never include itself in a predominantly Sunni Caliphate, but there is no reason why we can't work with them, or why we can't work to de-escalate hostilities towards them. The UK and France fought each other on and off for the best part of a 1000 years.

 

[aziqbal]

Is it going to be like the Islamic Block where the minutes of the agenda are going to be dictated by the Western countries

And also there is off limit topics like Palestine and Ughars

If so forget it

If not then I support it

 

[drmeson]

Pakistan can start by joining Iran-Iraq-Syria-Lebanon-Qatar-Turkey-Yemen alliance.

Forget KSA and UAE they consider you lesser human beings and support your enemy India openly. You will learn with time.

 

[Umar Nazir]

Isamic union will be the better idea on the basis of European Union.

 

[313ghazi]

Pakistan can start by joining Iran-Iraq-Syria-Lebanon-Qatar-Turkey-Yemen alliance.

Forget KSA and UAE they consider you lesser human beings and support your enemy India openly. You will learn with time.

That's not an alliance, that's a list of countries Iran has flamed the fans of sectarian conflict in plus Turkey and Qatar. Iran has a list of crimes just as long as Saudi and UAE.

Your governments approach of backing shia militias to gain influence is no different to what the Saudi's have done. Pakistan sensibly refused to get involved in any of these sectarian conflicts, including upon Saudi request in Yemen.

Alliances must be built to help each other, not to make mince meat of our children in other countries.

 

[Hamza913]

Sunni/Shia Outreach & Unity Programs

Why do discussions about unity always get bogged down to the Sunni/Shia split? First of all, there are other sects too, such as the Ibadis and Ahmadis. Secondly, within these groups, there are also many different factions that need to be unified. A prime example would be the Salafi-Sufi split within Sunnism. Thirdly, people are not addressing these splits among the Muslim community properly. You cannot just say everyone should tolerate each other and leave it at that, there are reasons these groups don't get along and they need to be addressed in order to alleviate tensions (e.g Shias shouldn't be allowed to curse members of the Sahabah, Salafis can't just kill everyone they disagree with, Barelvis shouldn't openly takfir Deobandi ulema and vice versa, etc).

Also, I am sceptical of a state-sponsored Islam. The last time such a project was initiated, Madkhalism was the result. It would be better for governments to stay out of it and for us the people to organise things ourselves, but ultimately I doubt we are capable of doing so.

Basic Issue is that: All ethnicity in Muslims don't consider other Muslims as equal.

The Ummah is not India, this sort of stuff means virtually nothing to us outside the realm of marriage, cracking jokes and insulting people we don't like. Ultimately, if people don't want to marry people from other ethnic groups, that's their call and this is perfectly halal.

Pakistan can start by joining Iran-Iraq-Syria-Lebanon-Qatar-Turkey-Yemen alliance.

Forget KSA and UAE they consider you lesser human beings and support your enemy India openly. You will learn with time.

No, the start is to forgive your enemies and attempt reconciliation with them.

 

[drmeson]

That's not an alliance, that's a list of countries Iran has flamed the fans of sectarian conflict in plus Turkey and Qatar. Iran has a list of crimes just as long as Saudi and UAE.

Your governments approach of backing shia militias to gain influence is no different to what the Saudi's have done. Pakistan sensibly refused to get involved in any of these sectarian conflicts, including upon Saudi request in Yemen.

Alliances must be built to help each other, not to make mince meat of our children in other countries.

Your logic is false

We did not attack Lebanon where Hezbollah got created. Israel attacked it 3 decades ago.

Iraq was attacked by US and KSA led Persian gulf Arab Sheikhdoms repeatedly. We have nothing to do with destruction of that country.

We did not attack Syria either. There we helped a secular strategic ally. Russia did as well along with many other countries. Whats wrong with helping a strategic ally ?

Houthis are Yemenites who are getting bombed by KSA, their children are dying. If we support them, does this make us criminals or KSA who murders them daily ?

If you are an anti shia person then say it openly instead of trying to justify your hatred with nonsense logics.
Like I said your logic is totally wrong.

No, the start is to forgive your enemies and attempt reconciliation with them.

What are you talking about ?

 

[313ghazi]

Your logic is false

We did not attack Lebanon where Hezbollah got created. Israel attacked it 3 decades ago.

Iraq was attacked by US and KSA led Persian gulf Arab Sheikhdoms repeatedly. We have nothing to do with destruction of that country.

We did not attack Syria either. There we helped a secular strategic ally. Russia did as well along with many other countries. Whats wrong with helping a strategic ally ?

Houthis are Yemenites who are getting bombed by KSA, their children are dying. If we support them, does this make us criminals or KSA who murders them daily ?

If you are an anti shia person then say it openly instead of trying to justify your hatred with nonsense logics.
Like I said your logic is totally wrong.



What are you talking about ?

Typical victim mentality, anyone who attacks your regime is anti shia.

- You backed Hizbollah in Lebanon, a militant group which was running a shadow government. They forced Lebanon into a war with Israel in 2006 and later even expressed regret for the decision. Tell me this - would Iran tolerate a militant group acting in it's territory? Then why provide support for Hizbollah in peacetime? I can understand during times of war, but why maintain a proxy in Lebanon?

- In Iraq you supported shia militias and backed elements who engaged in sectarian cleansing of sunnis.

- In Syria you did the same. You sent forces to support Assad and engaged in sectarian cleansing against sunnis.

This is all part of the shia crescent policy persued by your regime.

Even in Pakistan Iran has supported criminals like Uzair Baloch and faciliated indian terrorism in Pakistan - google who kulbhushan Yadav is. This is despite Pakistan playing a neutral role in Iran/Saudi proxy war in the region.

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Iran can only move forwards when it recognises the impact of it's actions. You might well have justification for what you do, but at what cost? What is the long term impact of that cost?

I will give you a local example. In the 90's Pakistan supported Taliban in Afghanistan. Taliban fought an ethnic style civil war in Afghanistan and won. We got a stable Afghanistan, under the control of our allies. At what cost? While Afghanistan remained in their control - no cost. When it did not, we had no allies in Afghanistan, which gave ample room for India to exploit and commit terrorism in Pakistan using Afghan proxies.

To deny the impact of what Iran has done, you have to be either brainwashed or stupid.