The Un-Intended Eye Opener Of 27th Feb:---

[Maxpane]

LOL its like comparing @Tps43 with Mentee



No one is telling me about the loiter time of Thunder In A2g and A2A mode minus fuel tanks either.

been asking it since the day I joined this board.

bhai when you get answer then plz tag me

 

[ARMalik]

Hi,

The reaction what I wanted was---I did not get it---. I don't blame most of you guys---because it took me awhile to get to it---.

The issue here is all about the power positioning in the south china seas---. pakistan was just considered to be a stepping stone---an irksome neighbor living on the flanks---.

If the powers to be were successful in containing the chinese air power---as they thought they had---china would be done and dusted---.

But this scenario has made paradigm shift in what the chinese were expected to have and what they have in stock---.

@NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM @Hakikat ve Hikmet

Hi,

The thing is that only the Paf is a known commodity in the world air forces---good---bad---terrible or superstars---.

What this shakeup of the 27th has done to the world powers is---what if the Paf spreads its wings and influence other air forces of the region---.

Guys---this might be felt as a little trembler on the " local scale "---but the fact is that the effects of its monstrosity are far reaching and extremely deep---.

Paf's performance has shaken up the world---. Now---what if the Iraqis or the Syrians or some other countries decide to gop for the full effects of the paf's indoctrination---the consequences would be really really tough for some nations---.

@MastanKhan , I will try to convey my 2-cents here.

What a lot of people do not realise is that Pakistan Military's role has changed from being an Indian-centric Military to a Military who has a role of 'Regional responsibilities' and hence much larger sphere of influence. So who has given this role to Pak military and what makes this a regional military? This role has been given to it by China, and more recently by other players such as Russia, Central Asia and even Turkey have joined in to approve this role.

So what card does Pakistan has to be given this role? It is CPEC. To make it clear, CPEC is not only a highway for Chinese development and relief from its South China Sea choke point, it is also a highway for development of Central Asia. The importance of Pakistan and CPEC is well illustrated in a article from 2015 by Andrew Korybko - it is a worth while read. The link is below.

For Pakistan Military to be given regional responsibilities, it needed upgraded and modern military weapons. This is what has been going on since early 2003, although CPEC started in 2013, the foundations of this new doctrine were laid much earlier.

With time, PAF, Army and Navy will get much stronger with well defined Military Power with Asymmetrical and Symmetrical war fighting capabilities. Interesting times ahead.

https://en.riss.ru/analysis/18882/
Andrew Korybko
Pakistan Is The “Zipper” Of Pan-Eurasian Integration
.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Lol he thinks secular hitler, stalin or mao wanted to listen to people with open minds lol, little gits like these are practically jahils, they dont know the first thing about philosophy, sociology and most importantly history, they are slaves who learnt the world secular, it sounded good so now they worship it....just ignore this brain sore.

There is nothing like "Secular" it is only state of mind. With some it stays long, life long. Some get rid of it quickly if they decided to study a little. By the way for gentleman , the secular, or those without religious beliefs had been the most cruel killers in history.

 

[Awan68]

There is nothing like "Secular" it is only state of mind. With some it stays long, life long. Some get rid of it quickly if they decided to study a little. By the way for gentleman , the secular, or those without religious beliefs had been the most cruel killers in history.

Indeed, man in his raw form is a beast.

 

[crankthatskunk]

It is ironic that my brothers are celebrating, and even fantasizing and creating myths, about something which has NOT been disclosed by either side. All that we know factually is that a Mig-21 was destroyed but we have absolutely no evidence that it was shot down by a JF-17 or an F-16 or even a SAM etc.

Some valid points raised by you. But with the same token many others have raised some valid points. As you admitted there is no official confirmations, therefore, other's narratives may be as good as yours.
Personally, without claiming any insight from PAF, I only analaysed the information in public domain. Forget about PAF, lets say we analyse the information laid down by IAF regarding 27th Feb attacks.
1- 24 Pakistani jets, including JF17, Mirages and F16s.
2- India only sent 8 interceptors. This figure is odd, why only 8!! There were 4 Su30s, 2 Mirages and 2 Bison.
3- One Bison downed, one crashed, presumably. Therefore, both Bison dusted.
4- India want's to award a Su30 pilot for successfully dogging Aim-120. It means that F16 fired Aim-120s. A figure of 4 missiles is mentioned. Were any of them successful!!
5- What did Mirage 2000 did when they were sent to intercept!! What was their fate!!
6- What role did Pak's Mirages and JF17 played on 27th!! Indians admitted that surroundings of their installations were hit. We know the bombing run were conducted by Mirages, and perhaps by JF 17 too.
JF 17 were on escort duties for Mirages. The logical conclusion is that the interceptors would have engaged them first. What happened with their engagements with JF 17!! Indians are not telling us a lot more.

Indians have adopted this policy since 27th that they want to highlight the role played by F16. To pressurise Pakistani through USA. These tactics have failed, but nonetheless it was tried by the Indians.
They would not utter the name of JF17 despite it was part of the leading pack with Mirages. Why!!

I can tell you why. They don't want to admit that Pakistani made fighters gave hard time to their best. Whenever they speak about JF17 they say it is a Chinese fighter, knowing fully well it is a joint fighter. They are purposefully misleading their audiences that Pakistan is inferior to them, despite getting a bloody nose.

These gaps in Indian narratives shows that a lot more happened, which Indians are not talking about. We coupled that with the remarks of Modi and sacking of Western Command Chief. Something extraordinary happened, lets there be no mistakes about it.

A very brief summation from my side:

Poster litman has answered your BS in his post earlier. Shooting down of F16 which you and Indian media is boosting on the basis of Engine casting of Mig 21 had been exposed by an innocent looking expert on Indian channel. Probably nobody briefed him on the plan.

I have already analysed the events in response to maverick post above, from the information released by the Indian media etc. You cannot claim of potential bias from Pakistani sources.
A lot more serious answers have to be provided by the Indians to their own public. Hiding behind rhetoric and lies is not going to work my friend.

 

[Zhukov]

Imagine on 26 Feb if enemy attacks our airbases?? PAF was too late on 26th Feb, Even enemy announced they will take revengue of pulwama attack and it was sure they will do it from Kashmir side.
I believe there are serious holes in our defense system. Enemy will never announce or tell that they will attack
During Israel arab conflict, Israel sent their soldiers on holidays, just to make impression , clouds of war is over. So did surprise attack.
Considering Rafale, Induction of S400 system, what is our planning for next 5 years. ? I fear we don't have answer.
Today enemy is roaring due to our defensive strategy.
While I agree , next day response was extraordinary , but still we were not able to cross LOC as India did with 12 mig2000. Why? due to defensive strategy.
Current events leaving few question , Are we ready to Counter Surprise attack?

You are assuming too much. Leaving behind too many things.
We are not in state of war. Don't compare to Arab-Israel Conflict to India-Pakistan Standoff.
What India did was beyond every estimation. Still, You think they missed to hit anything only by chance?
Your Military is saying they countered IAF thats why IAF Jets couldn't target anything AND IAF couldnt actually Hit anything. Still you believe Indian Narrative that they did Successful Strikes?
they came Without Announcement at night and couldn't hit a thing. No?
We went with announcement in broad day light and Everyone saw and Heard Yes?
Who knows whether we crossed LOC or not. Perhaps That poor Mig21 Entered Pak Air Space by sheer Bravado and watching too Much Bollywood and not while chasing a PAF Jet which was Inside Indian Air Space into Pak Airspace No?
And BTW India Already Operates S300 if we go on Paper capabilities of S400 then PAF is already Doomed with S300 as well. And Talking about Rafale, In fact on Paper Su30 is a Doom For Pakistan Air Force. Just look at its specs and Weapon Systems. We don't stand a chance if Specs are all that matter. Su30mki and Rafale are in same Category if we go on Spec Sheets.
Adding it all we should also remember we are a poor country with very little choice as to defense procurement due to limited defense Budget. We are doing Pretty damn well beyond expectations in what Funds are available to us. Fingers Crossed about JF17 BLK3, PL15, Project AZM and HQ9 SAM. As i said we are doing best with what we can afford. Trust your Forces.

 

[ziaulislam]

Imagine on 26 Feb if enemy attacks our airbases?? PAF was too late on 26th Feb, Even enemy announced they will take revengue of pulwama attack and it was sure they will do it from Kashmir side.
I believe there are serious holes in our defense system. Enemy will never announce or tell that they will attack
During Israel arab conflict, Israel sent their soldiers on holidays, just to make impression , clouds of war is over. So did surprise attack.
Considering Rafale, Induction of S400 system, what is our planning for next 5 years. ? I fear we don't have answer.
Today enemy is roaring due to our defensive strategy.
While I agree , next day response was extraordinary , but still we were not able to cross LOC as India did with 12 mig2000. Why? due to defensive strategy.
Current events leaving few question , Are we ready to Counter Surprise attack?

Apparently you need to read about
1. Stand off ammunition
2. Scramble time
3. Hardened shelters on bases
4. Spike 1000/2000 and REK
5. Standard operating procedures SOP in peace time
6. Escalating leader for nuclear war

If you still reach to than conclusion that God help you

Some valid points raised by you. But with the same token many others have raised some valid points. As you admitted there is no official confirmations, therefore, other's narratives may be as good as yours.
Personally, without claiming any insight from PAF, I only analaysed the information in public domain. Forget about PAF, lets say we analyse the information laid down by IAF regarding 27th Feb attacks.
1- 24 Pakistani jets, including JF17, Mirages and F16s.
2- India only sent 8 interceptors. This figure is odd, why only 8!! There were 4 Su30s, 2 Mirages and 2 Bison.
3- One Bison downed, one crashed, presumably. Therefore, both Bison dusted.
4- India want's to award a Su30 pilot for successfully dogging Aim-120. It means that F16 fired Aim-120s. A figure of 4 missiles is mentioned. Were any of them successful!!
5- What did Mirage 2000 did when they were sent to intercept!! What was their fate!!
6- What role did Pak's Mirages and JF17 played on 27th!! Indians admitted that surroundings of their installations were hit. We know the bombing run were conducted by Mirages, and perhaps by JF 17 too.
JF 17 were on escort duties for Mirages. The logical conclusion is that the interceptors would have engaged them first. What happened with their engagements with JF 17!! Indians are not telling us a lot more.

Indians have adopted this policy since 27th that they want to highlight the role played by F16. To pressurise Pakistani through USA. These tactics have failed, but nonetheless it was tried by the Indians.
They would not utter the name of JF17 despite it was part of the leading pack with Mirages. Why!!

I can tell you why. They don't want to admit that Pakistani made fighters gave hard time to their best. Whenever they speak about JF17 they say it is a Chinese fighter, knowing fully well it is a joint fighter. They are purposefully misleading their audiences that Pakistan is inferior to them, despite getting a bloody nose.

These gaps in Indian narratives shows that a lot more happened, which Indians are not talking about. We coupled that with the remarks of Modi and sacking of Western Command Chief. Something extraordinary happened, lets there be no mistakes about it.



Poster litman has answered your BS in his post earlier. Shooting down of F16 which you and Indian media is boosting on the basis of Engine casting of Mig 21 had been exposed by an innocent looking expert on Indian channel. Probably nobody briefed him on the plan.

I have already analysed the events in response to maverick post above, from the information released by the Indian media etc. You cannot claim of potential bias from Pakistani sources.
A lot more serious answers have to be provided by the Indians to their own public. Hiding behind rhetoric and lies is not going to work my friend.

There is one big problem
Indians lie to their heart contents

After all four missles of mig were recovered they will stick another theory

 

[Maarkhoor]

@MastanKhan
After reading your thread I believe you started to eat figs, Pls carry on don't forget to eat figs.

 

[ziaulislam]

Sir nothing beats U.S.A weapons. They are far superior in quality than anyone. India fears day & india from our F16s. Imagine if we get F15s , F18s. Only One or two squardons will make their nights hell.

Without appropriate weapons and systems it will be useless

Whats right yesterday is nt right the nwxt day

This happened when Germany was underestimated and when soviets were under estimated

Alot has changed in 20 years..afterall not only Chinese have acess to technology their own R&D spending is probably higher than America today

 

[Zarvan]

China is most happy after us due to recent events. They can now sell their weapons with more ease.

 

[ziaulislam]

So people always look at china where it was in 1990s. The world has changed..world will slowly see that.
Eveey expert here who talks about how Chinese stuff is bad base their experience of 1990s

In 1990 Pakistan per capita was higher than china!

Chinese economic development is a miracle..to assume this didnt happen in their military technology when they had legal acess to russian, french and illegal acess to american technology along with huge R&D spending is illogical and flawed reasoning

Same reasoning dommed Europe when they underestimated the nazis

 

[Axis Of Logic]

India want's to award a Su30 pilot for successfully dogging Aim-120. It means that F16 fired Aim-120s. A figure of 4 missiles is mentioned. Were any of them successful!!

If Su-30 managed to evade 4 AIM-120s where did their debris go? One was recovered in Reasi area of IOJK which was publically displayed by their Airforce officials. What happened to other three? Did they manage to vaporize Su-30 along with its pilots?

 

[Maxpane]

paf pilots plus chinese weapons wipe off their morale

 

[crankthatskunk]

If Su-30 managed to evade 4 AIM-120s where did their debris go? One was recovered in Reasi area of IOJK which was publically displayed by their Airforce officials. What happened to other three? Did they manage to vaporize Su-30 along with its pilots?

Yup, and what about SD-10 fired by JF 17s!! Like I said India has lot to answer.
A lot worse had happened without shadow of a doubt. No wonder since that day Modi's face is pale and Bipin "hijra" has disappeared completely from the scene. He used to threat Pakistan a lot in the past, but now he is mum.

 

[Jammer]

Every one is surprised, i'm sure even PAF is surprised.

My dear I beg to differ, the PAF was not surprised, it knew exactly what it was doing, the set of tactics deployed are but one of thousands of scenarios practiced specially during CCS. On a personal note I am also not surprised and rather enjoying hardcore PAF critics changing tune and trying to go with the tide now instead of being "expert pocket air marshals", in fact I am laughing. Having said that, the IAF still should not be underestimated, they are not incompetent and their equipment is still pretty lethal, in the words of Theodore Roosevelt, "speak softly and carry a big stick" should be the continued modus operandi of the PAF. Stay humble and stay vigilant.