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The Tunisian Black Hawk order officially rose to 16 helicopters instead of 12

Inshallah no Gripen... Ya Rab No Gripen...

If we are going for a small size Air Force...Let it be fully versatile and Multi Role and Heavyweight (when needed)... for decades to come...
So... I hope it's The Rafale (or equivalent) or if the Budget is extremely low and that we need something cheaper and doing a good job, I'm ok with a bit more F-16( in the latest variant)
 
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Inshallah no Gripen... Ya Rab No Gripen...

If we are going for a small size Air Force...Let it be fully versatile and Multi Role and Heavyweight (when needed)... for decades to come...
So... I hope it's The Rafale (or equivalent) or if the Budget is extremely low and that we need something cheaper and doing a good job, I'm ok with a bit more F-16( in the latest variant)
me i Love to See the Gripen in Tunisian Air Force and no fking french jank for god sake
look how beautifull is the Gripen
 
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me i Love to See the Gripen in Tunisian Air Force and no fking french jank for god sake
look how beautifull is the Gripen
The thing I like about the broken is the versatility of the systems.
You can add any radar, any missile, any bomb and integrate it in-house. It is essentially a modular jet.
 
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me i Love to See the Gripen in Tunisian Air Force and no fking french jank for god sake
look how beautifull is the Gripen

Gripen is a good aircraft, but it's not THE aircraft that you want if you need to build a small and complete polyvalent air force for today and the Future.
The Gripen is a multi-source Aircraft... meaning, in the Future, if one of his supplier, happen to be against TN for whatever reasons, it's out.
Gripen is cheaper, in almost all front, but it's performance is also lacking behind More Modern aircraft, that's a fact.

You should read Switzerland Aircraft procurement to replace the F-5 (Gripen-Rafale -Eurofighter-F18-F35), their doctrines and Needs are very similar to TN.
And the Gripen, for the Swiss, was : "It isn't Good Enough"

French or not, Rafale/F-16 are (For me) a good choice, if you have or not the budget for it.
 
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me i Love to See the Gripen in Tunisian Air Force and no fking french jank for god sake

Why do you think the Rafale is junk?

fun fact the first ever airplane in the airforce was Saab 91 Safirs tunisia bought 8 back then ^^ also the tunisian 12 L-59 are getting overhaul and probably new ones will be purchased.

Even though they consider the L-59 a trainer, it can easily be packaged for CAS and attack missions as well. So with the F-5's there really is more than a squadron of fighters when you really look at the available aircraft.
This thing is very well suited for those roles.

1*FpBjBPdmdl03l9wCVzJ3nQ.jpeg
 
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I think that it is because of the general suspicion of the French in TN. They have been known to lobby against the dribw programme, I once heard.

Since the French are also wanting to increase their presence in the international arena, and they have been doing some illegal things to get it (Libya) then I would be suspicious of buying Rafales from them. After all, they will be able to block the use of the machine any time.
 
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I think that it is because of the general suspicion of the French in TN.

That's what it sounds like, to me, anyway, being that it's well established the Rafale is beyond just and exceptional aircraft.

After all, they will be able to block the use of the machine any time.

How so, by some kind of contractual policy or do people still believe in the "kill switch" fantasy? :-) I hope the latter is not the case, since that was so victoriously debunked ages ago.
 
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I think that it is because of the general suspicion of the French in TN. They have been known to lobby against the dribw programme, I once heard.

Since the French are also wanting to increase their presence in the international arena, and they have been doing some illegal things to get it (Libya) then I would be suspicious of buying Rafales from them. After all, they will be able to block the use of the machine any time.
We don't have problems with France, Under Dictators or not, They were there.
As for Procuring Rafales, the Only problem (if any happen) is the same for every seller... You have to be "with them" French or not.
And as for how they lobby for it, well it's the same for every Def industry... Theya ll use the same tactics to get what they want, none of them care about me or you, as long as you buy from them.

As for the future, The Maghreb region has a great lobby force... It's those 7+Million French people who are from the First/Second or Third generation Maghrebi immigrant. (almost 10% pop)
So, to Have France against any Maghreb country...you really need to have a serious thing/War btw them nowadays...
 
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That's what it sounds like, to me, anyway, being that it's well established the Rafale is beyond just and exceptional aircraft.



How so, by some kind of contractual policy or do people still believe in the "kill switch" fantasy? :-) I hope the latter is not the case, since that was so victoriously debunked ages ago.
No no, not kill switch.

I meant it might be through long term logistics problems or refusing to arm them with domestic munitions or foreign munitions.

Also, the supplier country does have a lot of power to stop it by policy, like Germany's Turkish Leopard 2 upgrades, due to human rights, or America's Abrams contracts being suspended due to use by militias, etc.
 
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rafale is costy in terms of flight hours operational cost hovers around US$16,500 (2012) for every flight-hour. The Saab JAS Gripen, in comparison, costs only US$4,700 per flight-hour to operate.
means we will be cost us much to put them in the air 1 hour in rafale cost 3.5 hours in JAS Gripen besides we are friends with all western countries so we will not worry from logistics
and why i consider rafale is junk is here failed bids history
Brazil Rafale loose to Gripen
Singapore Rafale loose to F-15
Switzerland Rafale loose to Gripen
Libya political reason
South Korea Rafale Loose to F-15K Slam Eagle

Rafale is operated only By 4 Nations in other hand JAS Gripen is Operated by 7 Nations and i hope Tunisia make them 8
 
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No no, not kill switch.

I meant it might be through long term logistics problems or refusing to arm them with domestic munitions or foreign munitions.

Also, the supplier country does have a lot of power to stop it by policy, like Germany's Turkish Leopard 2 upgrades, due to human rights, or America's Abrams contracts being suspended due to use by militias, etc.

Ah, ok. You're absolutely right, especially the arming of foreign munitions part is a particularly sticky point with the French, which is the primary reason for Singapore choosing the F-15 over the Rafale because of their primary inventory being F-16s and other American aircraft. It seemed bizarre that they wouldn't allow the Singaporeans to mount US munition since the Rafale is quite capable of doing that and would've helped the sale, but it's a bit understandable since they wanted to showcase strictly French caps only and not be tied in with the US. 2 engines = always better than one in every single situation.

rafale is costy in terms of flight hours operational cost hovers around US$16,500 (2012) for every flight-hour. The Saab JAS Gripen, in comparison, costs only US$4,700 per flight-hour to operate.

That's true, for smaller countries it would be better. But there are a lot of reasons for the cost difference, primarily that the Rafale is a dual engine aircraft and the Gripen is a single. Plus there are other systems on the Rafale that don't exist on the Gripen which give it an advantage, hence it is costlier. The Rafale also has two major items that enhances its capabilities over the Gripen and those are SPECTRA as well as its advanced data-fusion cockpit which lead to the additional costs. Also Rafale has IRST while Gripen does not (maybe NG does or will but not 39C.) You basically get what you pay for.

and why i consider rafale is junk is here failed bids history
Brazil Rafale loose to Gripen

This reason wasn't because Rafale is junk (which is a ridiculous premise to begin with no offence), it was because Saab offered a joint development program for Brazil which included ToT that was very enticing for the Brazilian air force because of the F-X2 program in Brazil. Mainly the offset rates that were offered by Saab were going to help several, local Brazilian industries that were going to contribute to the development of the Gripen. Brazil was going to have access to all the Gripen's technology by the end of the development phase. Rafale wasn't offering anything of the sort and why should it?

The F-18 Super Hornet was also part of that program and just because it lost doesn't mean the F/A-18 E/F is anywhere near junk, lol. Quite the opposite.

Singapore Rafale loose to F-15

That's pretty simple and I'm surprised Dassault even participated in this competition knowing quite well that the Singapore Air Force is completely dominated by US fighter jets and that they wouldn't want to showcase any US weapons on the Rafale during the competition. Besides, the F-15 is in a league of its own (it is not a Medium Combat AC) and I doubt the Gripen would even come close to it either.

Switzerland Rafale loose to Gripen

Here's the basic and briefest explanation of that competition:

Switzerland has chosen the Saab Gripen as its new fighter aircraft, in preference to the Dassault Rafale or Eurofighter Typhoon. Defense Minister Ueli Maurier told journalists that the Swedish package including 22 jets is worth $3.4 billion. The Gripen is not the highest performing of the three contenders, he said, but it meets the Swiss requirement and offers the lowest acquisition and maintenance costs. Swiss media earlier reported that the Eurofighter offer was about $4.3 billion, and the Rafale in the middle range between the Typhoon and the Gripen
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So you basically get what you pay for like I mentioned before.

South Korea Rafale Loose to F-15K Slam Eagle

Same thing as Singapore except on a much larger pro-US level. Think of all the close, political but especially military relationships South Korea has with the US since 1953 and how SK is basically under the US' complete protection. This was a no-brainer they would pick the F-15K. Doesn't mean the Rafale is junk AND I highly doubt the Gripen would've even come close, either. The F-15 is just a completely different beast (not a Medium Combat AC) and I have no idea why Dassault even bothered with this one, lol.

Rafale is operated only By 4 Nations in other hand JAS Gripen is Operated by 7 Nations and i hope Tunisia make them 8

And how many of those 8 countries are operating the Gripen under a "lease" program and haven't necessarily bought them? Saab offers that kind of lease program where almost no other country offers anything remotely close. Besides, that count doesn't matter since the MiG-21 was operated by 52 countries in its heyday, but was it anywhere as good as the Mirage III/V or the F-4 Phantom that were operated by a handful of other countries?

Also, you forgot to mention that the Rafale beat out 5 other aircraft in the Indian MMRCA competition in the Typhoon, the F-16C/D, F/A-18E/F, MiG-35 AND the Gripen.
 
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How can anyone call this a Swedish fighter-plane?:lol:

24419a9359d284fe250e9a327a3c45b8.jpg

lol. @A.P. Richelieu , what the heck, man?!

In fairness to them, SAAB has had a very decent legacy going back to even before the Drakken and Viggen. Even those two were outstanding fighters and I'm surprised they didn't export them much more back then. But it's understandable that with the bang of the MiG-21, it was practically impossible to compete. But the Swedes need to lower their noses a bit and stop being so finicky about who they export these machines to. Or at least open the book a few more pages.

I loved this thing.

1200px-Saab_AJS-37_Viggen_37098_52_%28SE-DXN%29_%289256079273%29.jpg
 
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Ah, ok. You're absolutely right, especially the arming of foreign munitions part is a particularly sticky point with the French, which is the primary reason for Singapore choosing the F-15 over the Rafale because of their primary inventory being F-16s and other American aircraft. It seemed bizarre that they wouldn't allow the Singaporeans to mount US munition since the Rafale is quite capable of doing that and would've helped the sale, but it's a bit understandable since they wanted to showcase strictly French caps only and not be tied in with the US. 2 engines = always better than one in every single situation.



That's true, for smaller countries it would be better. But there are a lot of reasons for the cost difference, primarily that the Rafale is a dual engine aircraft and the Gripen is a single. Plus there are other systems on the Rafale that don't exist on the Gripen which give it an advantage, hence it is costlier. The Rafale also has two major items that enhances its capabilities over the Gripen and those are SPECTRA as well as its advanced data-fusion cockpit which lead to the additional costs. Also Rafale has IRST while Gripen does not (maybe NG does or will but not 39C.) You basically get what you pay for.



This reason wasn't because Rafale is junk (which is a ridiculous premise to begin with no offence), it was because Saab offered a joint development program for Brazil which included ToT that was very enticing for the Brazilian air force because of the F-X2 program in Brazil. Mainly the offset rates that were offered by Saab were going to help several, local Brazilian industries that were going to contribute to the development of the Gripen. Brazil was going to have access to all the Gripen's technology by the end of the development phase. Rafale wasn't offering anything of the sort and why should it?

The F-18 Super Hornet was also part of that program and just because it lost doesn't mean the F/A-18 E/F is anywhere near junk, lol. Quite the opposite.



That's pretty simple and I'm surprised Dassault even participated in this competition knowing quite well that the Singapore Air Force is completely dominated by US fighter jets and that they wouldn't want to showcase any US weapons on the Rafale during the competition. Besides, the F-15 is in a league of its own (it is not a Medium Combat AC) and I doubt the Gripen would even come close to it either.



Here's the basic and briefest explanation of that competition:

Switzerland has chosen the Saab Gripen as its new fighter aircraft, in preference to the Dassault Rafale or Eurofighter Typhoon. Defense Minister Ueli Maurier told journalists that the Swedish package including 22 jets is worth $3.4 billion. The Gripen is not the highest performing of the three contenders, he said, but it meets the Swiss requirement and offers the lowest acquisition and maintenance costs. Swiss media earlier reported that the Eurofighter offer was about $4.3 billion, and the Rafale in the middle range between the Typhoon and the Gripen
.

So you basically get what you pay for like I mentioned before.



Same thing as Singapore except on a much larger pro-US level. Think of all the close, political but especially military relationships South Korea has with the US since 1953 and how SK is basically under the US' complete protection. This was a no-brainer they would pick the F-15K. Doesn't mean the Rafale is junk AND I highly doubt the Gripen would've even come close, either. The F-15 is just a completely different beast (not a Medium Combat AC) and I have no idea why Dassault even bothered with this one, lol.



And how many of those 8 countries are operating the Gripen under a "lease" program and haven't necessarily bought them? Saab offers that kind of lease program where almost no other country offers anything remotely close. Besides, that count doesn't matter since the MiG-21 was operated by 52 countries in its heyday, but was it anywhere as good as the Mirage III/V or the F-4 Phantom that were operated by a handful of other countries?

Also, you forgot to mention that the Rafale beat out 5 other aircraft in the Indian MMRCA competition in the Typhoon, the F-16C/D, F/A-18E/F, MiG-35 AND the Gripen.

Gripen E got a derating factor in the Swiss evaluation since it was not available.
SPECTRA is using old fashioned GaAs technology vs Gripen E GaN technology,
also using old processors/electronics. Modern electronics is just orders of magnitude
better than what was available when SPECTRA was designed.
SAAB believes that the Gripen E EW beats both the Rafale SPECTRA and the Growler,
and the Gripen E man-machine interface is second to none, offloading the pilot.
The planned Rafale F4 (available 2025?) will introduce GaN and improved electronics.

Beeing a larger plane, the Rafale has some more fuel and hardpoints.
 
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