The Truth about Dr Abdus Salam & a background on Pakistan's Nuclear Bomb

[livingdead]

did anybody watch the video? Hoodbhoy says both praising salam to sky and completely disregarding his contribution(due to his religion) is inaccurate.
Specific to nuclear bomb, Salam did not directly contribute, but he wass not a pacifist either (in earlier days) and was influencial in getting a reactor. Later on he became anti nuclear, but that was much later.
All this Hoodbhoy says that is based on his interaction and evidence available.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

And couriers, and typists, and many foreign nationals too.

and not to forget the peons , pigeons and expatriate fast food employees

 

[syedali73]

and not to forget the peons , pigeons and expatriate fast food employees

And the wood, concrete, sand, gravel, air, atmosphere, bushes, trees, earth... Damn Qadeer, he acknowledged nobody.

Karo jitna zaleel kar saktey ho apney logon ko. First no one does nothing, if someone does something, that is how we acknowledge him.

This is where Indians beat Pakistanis hands down. Never ever would you see them ridiculing their people whereas for us Pakistanis, it seems like a national sport. We cant go to bed before cursing our own. If it was not Dr. Qadeer and his team, perhaps we were not taking on Bhartis both on ground and on internet from the comfort of our houses.

 

[Zarvan]

And the wood, concrete, sand, gravel, air, atmosphere, bushes, trees, earth... Damn Qadeer, he acknowledged nobody.

Karo jitna zaleel kar saktey ho apney logon ko. First no one does nothing, if someone does something, that is how we acknowledge him.

This is where Indians beat Pakistanis hands down. Never ever would you see them ridiculing their people whereas for us Pakistanis, it seems like a national sport. We cant go to bed before cursing our own. If it was not Dr. Qadeer and his team, perhaps we were not taking on Bhartis both on ground and on internet from the comfort of our houses.

Problem with these people is they actually believe that the blame Dr Qadeer took was real. Even if he did that he did on orders from state not on his own but some want to remain in some denial and delusion.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

And the wood, concrete, sand, gravel, air, atmosphere, bushes, trees, earth... Damn Qadeer, he acknowledged nobody.

Karo jitna zaleel kar saktey ho apney logon ko. First no one does nothing, if someone does something, that is how we acknowledge him.

This is where Indians beat Pakistanis hands down. Never ever would you see them ridiculing their people whereas for us Pakistanis, it seems like a national sport. We cant go to bed before cursing our own. If it was not Dr. Qadeer and his team, perhaps we were not taking on Bhartis both on ground and on internet from the comfort of our houses.

neer heard about Dr Samar Mubarak before we went nuclear. it was only Qadir sahib.
here in Pakistan those that raise arms against the state and declare is naPakistan are called brothers and praised and those that fight them face article 6 and treason. so yea funny people we are

 

[VCheng]

neer heard about Dr Samar Mubarak before we went nuclear. it was only Qadir sahib.
here in Pakistan those that raise arms against the state and declare is naPakistan are called brothers and praised and those that fight them face article 6 and treason. so yea funny people we are

Yes, we are so funny that we think the all of these people, heroes, villains and pigeons alike, who gave Pakistan the atumbumbs will be enough to provide us with a good economy, clean hospitals and 21st century tuknalojees like water and electricity. What is more important? Arguing who did what a quarter century ago, or moving ahead to figure out where we want to go next?

 

[syedali73]

neer heard about Dr Samar Mubarak before we went nuclear. it was only Qadir sahib.
here in Pakistan those that raise arms against the state and declare is naPakistan are called brothers and praised and those that fight them face article 6 and treason. so yea funny people we are

Irfan: I gave the reason for that. Being a Chief Geologist, my father himself was involved in the program and used to spend weeks in Chaghai but all we knew was, he was in the 'field'. The first time I came to learn about his involvement in the program was when I read some interview of some scientists post Chaghai blasts. He is retired now and alive Alahamdulillah but by himself he has uttered not a word about what was his role and what he was doing there. This was the level of secrecy and understandably so. Yes, not hundreds but thousands were involved in some capacity but as it happens everywhere, only those who lead the programs usually get acknowledged.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Infact Dr.AQ Khan made our nuclear program controversial by smuggling the blueprints of centrifuges from Europe

Iran did tried to build herself and ended in sanctions..

 

[sonicboom]

I am a biomedical researcher and specialize in recombinant DNA technology. Having working on this for past 15 years and applying it for developing recombinant therapeutic proteins for the treatment of HIV to Dengue and cancers, I have learnt a great deal and these expertise of mine have become sort of a 2nd nature to me. Now if I move back to Pakistan, establish my lab and resume working on what I have been working all my professional life wont be called 'stealing' of technology for this is a knowledge that I have acquired through my research and hard work. In parallel, I have also been creating knowledge base and publishing it both as research papers and patents. That is how science, any science for that mater, works. Only an ignorant fool would call this 'stealing'. Dr Qadeer stole technology... idiocy, ignorance, and immense hatred for Pakistan at their best.

Thank you for educating these Pakistanis who have done nothing themselves for Pakistan except to rob and destroy.

 

[syedali73]

Problem with these people is they actually believe that the blame Dr Qadeer took was real. Even if he did that he did on orders from state not on his own but some want to remain in some denial and delusion.

We were/are not signatory of NPT; it is as simple as that. Even if Qadeer helped Iranians albeit of in his own capacity (highly unlikely though) or with consent of the GoP, he cant be tried, for we were not bound by any treaty.

 

[VCheng]

Iran did tried to build herself and ended in sanctions..

May be they should have asked somebody who understands laboratory centrifuges to help them out? After all, "Centrifuges are used to separate (sediment) heavier particles from lighter ones by applying varying degrees of centrifugal forces. Similar machines are also used in other fields such as biology. There is no need to 'steal' any technology for all sorts of centrifuges are commercially available and so long a person understands how they function, and is aware of their mechanics, as most engineers/researchers do, they can re-create them. I have been working with numerous machines and can re-create them with the help of engineers should the need arise."

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Problem with these people is they actually believe that the blame Dr Qadeer took was real. Even if he did that he did on orders from state not on his own but some want to remain in some denial and delusion.

lets take this debate a little bit further shall we?

lets agree that Qadir took the blame for the sake of the state
and saved us from sanctions and repercussions due to proliferations into North Korea, Iran and Libya

A true Martyr for the cause who sacrificed his honor for the state of Pakistan

a Martyr then should keep quiet, should not threaten the state shouldn't threaten to talk to foreign journalists and shouldnt threaten to blow the lid off the secrets because if someone does that then he no longer is a martyr.

when he started giving media interviews at that time Americans were demanding his extradition, it was rejected, then they requested to interview him in Pakistan, that was rejected, then they wanted to participate in the investigations conducted by Pakistani authorities that was rejected too. Dr Saab continued his media ranting and campaign like a bruised Pakistani politician all out in the open while the foreign agents were assassinating Iranian scientists and engineers. he was told to stop his public appearance and he became more agitated and I started to fear for his life.

I still find it astounding how he managed to allegedly dodge the state by secretly deal with other countries and proliferated our nuclear know how. but the choice of countries was really odd bar one. bar North Korea which according to some experts traded its missile program for our nuclear knowledge (again a weak argument because such knowledge was available from china). oh yea what other countries? Libya and Iran? why oh why should Pakistani state do that of it wasnt Qadir Sahib?

starting with Libya. the country and its leader was openly and practically hostile towards Pakistan many of you people were not conceived at the time since Libyan intelligence and its assassins conducted terror and assassination operations in Pakistan so cooperating with such country was unthinkable and if it was for money then why not KSA? same goes for Iran, a country under sanctions and not liked by KSA .. again why not KSA? leaves me to wonder if indeed the state (read Pindi) was involved then the choice of customers sucked *** because not only those countries disclosed the Pakistani link but also brought other nasties for us. so did Qadir indeed managed to run the entire show at Qadir laboratories like a tyrant without knowledge of our premier agency? inconceivable and/or pathetic

I am on the fence when it comes to blaming Qadir for the proliferation maybe it was sanctioned by state or maybe it was just a bad call by Qadir and not malicious OR as Gen Aslam Baig in one of his interview reacts forcefully "WHY NOT". whats the compulsion on us? WHY not whatever country we want to? if Americans can help other countries then why cant we? yet another western writer (sorry forgot the name) says that the proliferation by Qadir was not just for money but actually showing a middle finger to the world establishment as a protest.

whatever.. but one thing is undisputed that Qadir like many others played his important role in the Pakistani nuclear program .

May be they should have asked somebody who understands laboratory centrifuges to help them out? After all, "Centrifuges are used to separate (sediment) heavier particles from lighter ones by applying varying degrees of centrifugal forces. Similar machines are also used in other fields such as biology. There is no need to 'steal' any technology for all sorts of centrifuges are commercially available and so long a person understands how they function, and is aware of their mechanics, as most engineers/researchers do, they can re-create them. I have been working with numerous machines and can re-create them with the help of engineers should the need arise."

if you have read Musharraf's book or recall one of my detailed post on the same subject few years back, our discarded P1 centrifuge designs were discovered by UN inspection teams in Libya or Iran.

We were/are not signatory of NPT; it is as simple as that. Even if Qadeer helped Iranians albeit of in his own capacity (highly unlikely though) or with consent of the GoP, he cant be tried, for we were not bound by any treaty.

correct (it is irrelevant for me if Qadeer did it on his own accord for money or as a single handed decision for Pakistan since he was in charge of the operation at his Labs)

you will love an interview from Gen Baig he says sorry i cant locate it now.
Kahay ko Nahi? who has the right to deny us to sell the secrets? west did it for its beloved countries then why not us for money?

 

[VCheng]

if you have read Musharraf's book or recall one of my detailed post on the same subject few years back, our discarded P1 centrifuge designs were discovered by UN inspection teams in Libya or Iran.

And yet they were not enough for Iran to make them work. There is much more to such technologies than meets the eye. The fact that Pakistan has been able to master them is a huge achievement, and all those involved deserve to be honored for their respective roles, whether mullahs, qadianis or birds.

 

[syedali73]

if you have read Musharraf's book or recall one of my detailed post on the same subject few years back, our discarded P1 centrifuge designs were discovered by UN inspection teams in Libya or Iran.


correct (it is irrelevant for me if Qadeer did it on his own accord for money or as a single handed decision for Pakistan since he was in charge of the operation at his Labs)

you will love an interview from Gen Baig he says sorry i cant locate it now.
Kahay ko Nahi? who has the right to deny us to sell the secrets? west did it for its beloved countries then why not us for money?

An excerpt that should clear up (though I really doubt) the misconception of top secret gas centrifuge technology that Qadeer stole and sold...

"What contributed to high-level concern about nuclear proliferation via gas centrifuges was not only that such countries as West Germany had a "lead" in the technology, but that their research and development programs were unclassified. The Germans and the Dutch were developing the technology for commercial purposes, so they could produce HEU for nuclear power reactors and eventually eliminate their dependence on U.S. supplies. The German and the Dutch programs, however, were completely uncontrolled at the time and the AEC saw a risk of proliferation if the technology leaked or if high capacity machines became available for export. Brazil had already purchased a number of machines several years earlier. While the AEC had declassified some findings from its classified centrifuge program, it was starting to tighten up controls, and concerns mounted that U.S. classification actions would be irrelevant if Dutch or West German centrifuge technology was unclassified".

 

[VCheng]

so did Qadir indeed managed to run the entire show at Qadir laboratories like a tyrant without knowledge of our premier agency? inconceivable and/or pathetic

Yeh baat chalee tau bahut doooooooooor talak jayege.