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The 'tornado' awaiting India

dabong1

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"I fear there will be a bloody revolution in India," a retired Indian military officer remarked to this writer and other guests during a recent visit to New Delhi. It was shocking to hear the comment from a soldier, in a country that supposedly had given a voice to its huge population and was believed to be all-inclusive.

It is obvious that India's much-praised democracy hasn't brought any real change in the lives of millions of Indians. That some of the poorest men and women are now up in arms in parts of India is evidence enough that democratically elected governments must do more to provide rights and justice to the rural poor and ensure even-handed development in different parts of the country.

The Naxalite violence in India has caused pain to most thinking Indians. For them it is a matter of anguish that a growing number of Indians are disillusioned with their country's democracy and see no hope of benefiting from India's steady economic progress. They have picked up the gun to fight for their rights.

The Maoist-linked violence is spreading and engulfing new places. The vast region affected by the insurgency include the states of Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Bihar and West Bengal and runs south through Orissa, Maharashtra and Andhra Pradesh. It is usually called the "Red Corridor" because the leadership for the rebels is provided by communist cadres labelled as Maoists. The Communist Party of India (Marxists-Leninists), despite suffering splits, is still the standard-bearer of the rebels.

According to reports in the Indian media, more than 220 districts in 20 or so states are now affected by Maoist-linked violence. Indian intelligence agencies believe the movement has at its disposal 20,000 armed cadres and over 50,000 regular members. Apart from the rural poor, indigenous tribes such as the Girijans in Andhra Pradesh and Santhals in West Bengal have been flocking to the Naxalite movement. The movement has appeal for the dispossessed and the under-privileged. In the words of its present leader, Mupalla Laxman Rao, in hiding somewhere in eastern India and better known as Ganapathi, his party's influence has grown stronger and it was now the only genuine alternative before the people of India.

The Naxalite movement began as a peasants' uprising in May 1969 in the village of Naxalbari in West Bengal. It was initially led by 49-year-old Charu Mazumdar and its aim was to seize power through an agrarian revolution by overthrowing the feudal order. Mazumdar died in police custody 12 days after his arrest in Calcutta in 1972 and became a hero to Maoist cadres that have increased in number and strength over the years despite splits in the movement. The Naxalite insurgency has sprouted after every defeat and is now stronger than ever.

India's share of the world's poorest people has increased to 39 percent from 25 percent in 1980. In comparison, the Below Poverty Line population worldwide has decreased from 1,470 million to 970 million. There are reportedly 301 million Indians below the poverty line, just 19 million less than in 1983. The Human Development Report by the UN has been ranking India among the lowest 60 or 65 countries in the list of 193 nations that are part of the annual study. India's poor performance on this score was in spite of the around nine percent growth rate in its GDP. There are reports in the media about farmers committing suicide or selling their wives to pay mounting debts. Though the recorded figures of such cases aren't high in a big country such as India with 1.17 billion people, it still indicates the desperate state of certain communities.

India's poor and marginalised groups have on occasions showed their anger through the power of the ballot. This happened in the 2004 and also in the 2009 national elections. The Hindu nationalist BJP tried to seek votes by coining the slogan, India Shining, in the 2004 Lok Sabha elections as part of its claim that its coalition government had brought prosperity during its five-year rule. But the electorate thought otherwise as the majority, particularly the poor and rural voters, the lower castes and minorities hadn't benefited from the progress that had mostly made the rich richer. Their verdict in the polls was against the BJP-led NDA alliance and in support of the Congress and its allies. The Congress won again in 2009 despite the incumbency factor because it was largely seen as the party that cared more for the rights of the poor and the rural voters and was conscious of the concerns of the minorities, particularly Muslims.

However, it is the ruling Congress now that is confronted with the challenge of responding to the needs of India's restless rural poor and tribal communities. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh recently described the Naxalite insurgency as the single greatest threat to India's internal security. Rahul Gandhi, son of Congress head Sonia Gandhi and the rising star of Indian politics, has been focusing on the vast Indian hinterland, visiting the under-developed rural villages and spending nights at the homes of Dalits, often termed the poorest and most oppressed people in the country. This cannot be enough to calm down the Naxalites, who are convinced that only force could win the Indian people their rights.

A showdown between the Indian government and the Naxalites is now imminent. The Congress-led government is mobilising hundreds of thousands of security personnel, mostly police and paramilitary forces, to launch an offensive against the Maoists mostly likely in November. It has ruled out the use of the military, but the operation will be coordinated from New Delhi as part of a central government initiative. Indian analysts and foreigners knowledgeable about India have pointed out that the country lacked a cohesive strategy to deal with the insurgency. The ruling elites have also been criticised for being slow in responding to the needs of the poorest communities, who were then easily recruited by the Maoists.

Such is the hatred of the Naxalites for the ruling elite that their leader Ganapathi, a former schoolteacher, branded Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Home Minister P Chidambaran as "terrorists." In a recent interview at his secret jungle hideout with the weekly magazine Open, he said "the people will rise up like a tornado under our party's leadership to wipe out the reactionary blood-sucking vampires ruling our country." At another point, the 59-year old Ganapathi declared: "Those (government) sharks want to loot the wealth and drive the tribal people of the region to further impoverishment."

By threatening to unleash a "tornado" of violence if the Indian government went ahead with its planned large-scale offensive against his insurgent forces, Ganapathi has made the intentions of the Maoists obvious. Already, his men, and even some women cadres, have carried out actions that are now normally associated with the Taliban. They have kidnapped and beheaded government officials, blown up electricity and telephone towers, destroyed roads and railway tracks, killed political opponents and attacked police stations and other official installations. The offensive against the Naxalites will certainly weaken and deprive them of some of their bases and hideouts, but the issue cannot be resolved by the use of force alone. Many members of the Indian intelligentsia sympathise with the cause of the Maoists and objective analysts see it as an economic issue and one concerning lack of justice. The Indian ruling elite needs to tackle the root-cause of the insurgency instead of applying force through the state apparatus to crush the rebels.

The 'tornado' awaiting India
 
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I generally only lurk and don't post but this post made me want to kill myself. This forum is supposed to be one of the best defense discussion forums.

While posting in a forum like this, you have to be a little responsible. Posting articles just for sake of propaganda is wrong. The article says a retired officer with no source no reference. Tomorrow if any X person writes a article that Pakistan is a failed state, says a retired army officer. Would you believe it, well I wouldn't, so lets be a little responsible and do a little research before posting.

I understand that lot of Indian members do the same and I am not pointing fingers but someone has to take steps to prevent standards from falling.

Discussing Naxalites is necessary so that appropriate steps to contain as well as improve their conditions, but saying it would cause a revolution and break democracy is a idea so far fetched that lot of other things far worse would happen before this.
 
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I generally only lurk and don't post but this post made me want to kill myself. This forum is supposed to be one of the best defense discussion forums.

While posting in a forum like this, you have to be a little responsible. Posting articles just for sake of propaganda is wrong. The article says a retired officer with no source no reference. Tomorrow if any X person writes a article that Pakistan is a failed state, says a retired army officer. Would you believe it, well I wouldn't, so lets be a little responsible and do a little research before posting.

I understand that lot of Indian members do the same and I am not pointing fingers but someone has to take steps to prevent standards from falling.

Discussing Naxalites is necessary so that appropriate steps to contain as well as improve their conditions, but saying it would cause a revolution and break democracy is a idea so far fetched that lot of other things far worse would happen before this.

Oh please brother just let certain of the Pakistani posters live in their dream that India is fragmenting and falling apart and is in a state of chaos. :coffee:

What happens in Pakistan is often wished upon India and some people are experts at reversing the situation in India to apply to Pakistan and vice versa. Not even worth expending your energy to reply to these sort of posts. Just agree with them and tell them how the Indian army is rushing up north to stop the Hindu terrorists extremists from enforcing strict hindu laws and killing off large number of Indians and displacing a larger number :D
 
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I generally only lurk and don't post but this post made me want to kill myself. This forum is supposed to be one of the best defense discussion forums.

While posting in a forum like this, you have to be a little responsible. Posting articles just for sake of propaganda is wrong. The article says a retired officer with no source no reference. Tomorrow if any X person writes a article that Pakistan is a failed state, says a retired army officer. Would you believe it, well I wouldn't, so lets be a little responsible and do a little research before posting.

I understand that lot of Indian members do the same and I am not pointing fingers but someone has to take steps to prevent standards from falling.

Discussing Naxalites is necessary so that appropriate steps to contain as well as improve their conditions, but saying it would cause a revolution and break democracy is a idea so far fetched that lot of other things far worse would happen before this.


The writer is a very very senior sensible fellow journalist here in Peshawar, and i tell you he is a very neutral person viz viz Indo-Pak issues or relations rather most of the times he is anti-establishment here.

He can never write any propaganda piece about India that i can assure you although i am not his fan.


He had visited India many times and he is merely presenting the view of an Indian army officer (retired) if anyone that has to be blamed is your own army officer not the poster of this thread.

And i think the army officer is not that much wrong. We all have seen that Indian government is observing a retrain from going all out against Naxals mainly due to a public unleash of anger and reaction.

That should be expected specially when most of the demands of naxals are just except few.
 
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And i think the army officer is not that much wrong. We all have seen that Indian government is observing a retrain from going all out against Naxals mainly due to a public unleash of anger and reaction.

That should be expected specially when most of the demands of naxals are just except few
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u seem to be an expert on everything and anything....
u r easy at claiming things that u mayn't really understand...
u may be the best of jack of other trades but not an expert on this matter.... :hitwall::hitwall::bunny:

how the heck u give a certificate that most inf not everything that naxals demand is just ? many like u just train their guns if anything against india as a state.
Taking arms in the name of poverty and injustice and then creating another injustice by killing innocents .. what kind of justice r we talking ?
Also development doesn't flow a free path. It amuses me when sbdy says wealth isn't getting distributed... in a simple family we get to see so much differences among its family members.. some settle ok some do really gud, some fail... when we talk abt 1 billion +, u got to give time and try to provide opportunities.
Next question i how to provide opportunities to vast number of citizens ? the only possible way is creating employment.. through a mix of agriculture and INDUSTRY.
Now in the process of industrialization, there will be peole who can exploit , but this sudn't derail the process. Industries and infrastructure aren't built in space, and they need land, which may displace some natives of those lands causing short-0term pain for a possibe better future. Now if Naxals call this land grabbing and may be true in some cases and oppose it ... how r we going to develop and uplift masses ?
this is a catch 22. u risk by both doing and not doing. better u do and risk sth than being left out.

And plz don't rubbish nonsense - The culprit of all unrest is poverty and lack of Employment.
 
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Does it soothe Pakistani members here, if they hear anything potentially going wrong in India? This article is a load of Bullsh!t. Let's take it one by one.

"I fear there will be a bloody revolution in India," a retired Indian military officer remarked to this writer and other guests during a recent visit to New Delhi. It was shocking to hear the comment from a soldier, in a country that supposedly had given a voice to its huge population and was believed to be all-inclusive.

Anonymous sources & the article looses the credibility right at the beginning.

It is obvious that India's much-praised democracy hasn't brought any real change in the lives of millions of Indians.

Let us tackle it this way. Today we have a 600+ million middle class & 62 years ago, it was just close to 5&#37; of total population. This record is still unmatched by any other democracy. And as time is passing by, the social progress is faster & more evident.

India's share of the world's poorest people has increased to 39 percent from 25 percent in 1980. In comparison, the Below Poverty Line population worldwide has decreased from 1,470 million to 970 million. There are reportedly 301 million Indians below the poverty line, just 19 million less than in 1983. The Human Development Report by the UN has been ranking India among the lowest 60 or 65 countries in the list of 193 nations that are part of the annual study. India's poor performance on this score was in spite of the around nine percent growth rate in its GDP. There are reports in the media about farmers committing suicide or selling their wives to pay mounting debts. Though the recorded figures of such cases aren't high in a big country such as India with 1.17 billion people, it still indicates the desperate state of certain communities.
:lol: And the remaining credibility goes down the drain here. Does the author not know the concept of percentages? Looks like someone needs a maths teacher. Excellent piece, by the way, to promote the paper/magazine. :lol:

And I have had enough. Can't really go down to see whats there. Must be music to Pakistani ears.
 
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u seem to be an expert on everything and anything....
u r easy at claiming things that u mayn't really understand...
u may be the best of jack of other trades but not an expert on this matter....


Not worth to reply a personal attack. :)


how the heck u give a certificate that most inf not everything that naxals demand is just ?

Indian member Ejaz had once posted or may be not Ejaz but an Indian member posted the demands of the Naxals and all of those except one are two were just.




Taking arms in the name of poverty and injustice and then creating another injustice by killing innocents .. what kind of justice r we talking ?
Also development doesn't flow a free path. It amuses me when sbdy says wealth isn't getting distributed... in a simple family we get to see so much differences among its family members.. some settle ok some do really gud, some fail... when we talk abt 1 billion +, u got to give time and try to provide opportunities.
Next question i how to provide opportunities to vast number of citizens ? the only possible way is creating employment.. through a mix of agriculture and INDUSTRY.
Now in the process of industrialization, there will be peole who can exploit , but this sudn't derail the process. Industries and infrastructure aren't built in space, and they need land, which may displace some natives of those lands causing short-0term pain for a possibe better future. Now if Naxals call this land grabbing and may be true in some cases and oppose it ... how r we going to develop and uplift masses ?
this is a catch 22. u risk by both doing and not doing. better u do and risk sth than being left out.

And plz don't rubbish nonsense - The culprit of all unrest is poverty and lack of Employment.

Most of their demands were related to reduction of poverty in Naxal areas, just distribution of rights and other such things etc etc .
 
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:lol: And the remaining credibility goes down the drain here. Does the author not know the concept of percentages? Looks like someone needs a maths teacher. Excellent piece, by the way, to promote the paper/magazine. :lol:

And I have had enough. Can't really go down to see whats there. Must be music to Pakistani ears.

he merely quoted the statistics about Indian poverty which were collected by UN and other international organisations so just laughing off it is not constructive.
 
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he merely quoted the statistics about Indian poverty which were collected by UN and other international organisations so just laughing off it is not constructive.

I am laughing at the way he projected it. Standard way is to project everything in percentages, not absolute numbers. That way the population growth is accounted for, and gives a clear picture of what happened. The intent is quite clear when there is an effort to manipulate the data & project it in a different way.
 
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I am laughing at the way he projected it. Standard way is to project everything in percentages, not absolute numbers. That way the population growth is accounted for, and gives a clear picture of what happened. The intent is quite clear when there is an effort to manipulate the data & project it in a different way.

Its not he who is projecting it in numbers instead of percentage rather he is just quoting the international organisations who have collected the data.

Beside it doesnt make any difference if you project it in numbers or percentage, because it is not going to change the reality on ground.

If we put the data about poverty in percentage what difference does it make ? is poverty going to be reduced by doing so?


As far as manipulating the data then same can be said about Indian way of putting it in percentage :) would it not be amounting to reducing the impact of the word billions or millions.?
 
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The writer is a very very senior sensible fellow journalist here in Peshawar, and i tell you he is a very neutral person viz viz Indo-Pak issues or relations rather most of the times he is anti-establishment here.

He can never write any propaganda piece about India that i can assure you although i am not his fan.


He had visited India many times and he is merely presenting the view of an Indian army officer (retired) if anyone that has to be blamed is your own army officer not the poster of this thread.

And i think the army officer is not that much wrong. We all have seen that Indian government is observing a retrain from going all out against Naxals mainly due to a public unleash of anger and reaction.

That should be expected specially when most of the demands of naxals are just except few.

Jana,

First off, any news coming out of Indian or Pakistani news sources, about either country have to be taken with a grain of salt.....especially considering our history and current scenario....

Secondly, if I told you the same about a TOI report of "Pakistan being a failed state that sponsors terrorism worldwide" and the reporter writing it being a "credible" and unbiased writer basing his jugdements on his visits to Pakistan, and words of "high ranking" officials without names....Would you believe me??
Your opinion on the writer and his "credibility" dont add any muscle to the report.....especially after reading your own views on India......You're hardly a neutral or an unbiased Pakistani and if I may say so pretty Anti-India (based on your posts).....

Please remember that it is the democratic setup of our Govt. that enables such radicals to thrive and prevents a Nazi style elimination of such elements....
Dont try to turn our restraint and value for public opinion into a "seed of revolution" that the GOI apparently fears.....

And if required....please compare this with the situation in your country.....cities and villages included....
Ground realities are not something that foreigners on a "visit" to India would be able to comprehend or even grasp....so lets leave it at that.....Its very easy to pass judgement looking from outside....As can be said of the world opinion on Pakistan....which according to Pakistani's isnt true.....

Naxals are hardly a threat....I agree with you on one point that there demands should be heard and addressed....But there is no justification for taking up arms and attacking the state establishment.....
 
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Jana,

First off, any news coming out of Indian or Pakistani news sources, about either country have to be taken with a grain of salt.....especially considering our history and current scenario....

Secondly, if I told you the same about a TOI report of "Pakistan being a failed state that sponsors terrorism worldwide" and the reporter writing it being a "credible" and unbiased writer basing his jugdements on his visits to Pakistan, and words of "high ranking" officials without names....Would you believe me??
Your opinion on the writer and his "credibility" dont add any muscle to the report.....especially after reading your own views on India......You're hardly a neutral or an unbiased Pakistani and if I may say so pretty Anti-India (based on your posts).....

Please remember that it is the democratic setup of our Govt. that enables such radicals to thrive and prevents a Nazi style elimination of such elements....
Dont try to turn our restraint and value for public opinion into a "seed of revolution" that the GOI apparently fears.....

And if required....please compare this with the situation in your country.....cities and villages included....
Ground realities are not something that foreigners on a "visit" to India would be able to comprehend or even grasp....so lets leave it at that.....Its very easy to pass judgement looking from outside....As can be said of the world opinion on Pakistan....which according to Pakistani's isnt true.....

Naxals are hardly a threat....I agree with you on one point that there demands should be heard and addressed....But there is no justification for taking up arms and attacking the state establishment.....

Peshwa i can close my eyes towards our problems by comparing situation in India with ours but that will only be fake attempt to make myself happy but it wont solve our problems on ground.

So its up to you whether to accept the reality or not and i have no concern what Naxalis are doing there or may be if i act like an enemy i would be happy as long as Indians are closing their eyes towards their problems as it would only worsen India not Pakistan.


And btw no one is justifying taking up of arms for demanding their rights.
 
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Peshwa i can close my eyes towards our problems by comparing situation in India with ours but that will only be fake attempt to make myself happy but it wont solve our problems on ground.

So its up to you whether to accept the reality or not and i have no concern what Naxalis are doing there or may be if i act like an enemy i would be happy as long as Indians are closing their eyes towards their problems as it would only worsen India not Pakistan.


And btw no one is justifying taking up of arms for demanding their rights.

Jana,

Please read the below news story......

Can talk if Naxals give up arms: PC

Indians are ready to hear naxal demands, but only if they quit their armed struggle.....
Now it is to be seen whether these people are true to their cause of social development through peaceful means or are just there to spread mindless violence and disturbance through foreign propoganda.....
GOI cant be blamed if the Naxals reject the offer for talks resulting in strict offensive against them....

Frankly, reality is something that neither you or I know....
And if Indians were closing their eyes to such a problem, you probably wouldnt even have heard a peep about the naxals......and they probably wouldnt exists as authoritarian govt's tend to massacre such uprisings..(Uighirs in China for example)
Mind you unlike communist countries where Media is censored, us Indians are more than willing to stand up to injustice and bring such issues to the limelight.....Arundhati Roy is an example of freedom of speech in India.....
(Compare this to the reporters in other countries that have been targeted for their free speech....
US Journalists Arrested, Kidnapped Abroad (ROUNDUP))

If you take the green and white veil off your eyes, you will notice that GOI is doing a lot to improve conditions of the poor in India....
Whether the money is utilized in the right places and the adverse effects of corruption are a whole seperate issue.....I probably will not argue about those aspects of things in India
 
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The article lacks credibility because there was no credible source provided by the author. The author might be well respected in Pakistan and I read his wiki profile, but this article is his point of view.

I don't expect it to be neutral because our media people also dont write neutral stuff hence I never attacked the author only his opinion. But the question I have is that do you really think that naxalites problem can cause a revolution which will destroy democracy.

Even a blind man will agree that Balochistan is currently a much bigger problem than naxalites but I don't expect Pakistan to lose its status to exist as a state which will what will happen if democracy is destroyed in India. Hence lets be realistic and talk about topics which are so much more relevant.

Possible solution for Naxalites can be one of them.
 
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Indian member Ejaz had once posted or may be not Ejaz but an Indian member posted the demands of the Naxals and all of those except one are two were just.
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so ur basis of knowledge on naxals demands are based off some discussion here.
Get back when u really know sth abt it. On paper everything seems so true, but u got to consider what r the pre-conditions !!
to draw a parallel line, Mamatha Banerjee created havoc against TATA factory which already created soo much business activity before real factory work, but political situation masterminded their own benefits and exploited normal people to go against the factory. End of the day, people r left high and dry with company moving base to Gujarat and political party gaining in 2009 elections...

Most of their demands were related to reduction of poverty in Naxal areas, just distribution of rights and other such things etc etc .

And how r we supposed to achieve it ? u tell me ?
 
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