The Taliban will ‘never be defeated’: Pak ISI agent

[Twain]

Please explain unnecessary death on which side. and also do you really know what is the real real real reason behind Iraq war.

You are interpreting what I am saying all wrong. I never thought the Iraq war was justified. I was opposed to it from the start. It was about two things overall.

Neocon hatred for Saddam and in brief oil. The issue on oil is an oversimplifiction though. It was about access to oil on our terms. The neocons didn't want Saddam to have access to the oil under his terms. They were under this delusion that somehow invading Iraq and deposing Saddam would somehow result in democracy spontaneously arising and then spreading throughout the middle east. Then that would somehow lead to governments that were more favorable to the US. Needless to say these people are not entirely sane.

 

[wtf]

You are interpreting what I am saying all wrong. I never thought the Iraq war was justified. I was opposed to it from the start. It was about two things overall.

Neocon hatred for Saddam and in brief oil. The issue on oil is an oversimplifiction though. It was about access to oil on our terms. The neocons didn't want Saddam to have access to the oil under his terms. They were under this delusion that somehow invading Iraq and deposing Saddam would somehow result in democracy spontaneously arising and then spreading throughout the middle east. Then that would somehow lead to governments that were more favorable to the US. Needless to say these people are not entirely sane.

That and a backup military base for US army in case Saudi regime got overthrown. Al Qaeda was complaining about US presence of the holy land. George Bush possibly also personally disliked Saddam due to his move to assassinate his dad.

A bunch of reasons and then faulty intelligence.

 

[Twain]

That and a backup military base for US army in case Saudi regime got overthrown. Al Qaeda was complaining about US presence of the holy land. George Bush possibly also personally disliked Saddam due to his move to assassinate his dad.

A bunch of reasons and then faulty intelligence.

I don't believe the faulty intelligence claim. There was just as much intelligence pointing to the absence of WMD's as there was pointing to the evidence of WMD's. They just ignored anything that didn't reflect their own view of the world.

Even the evidence that did say Saddam had WMD's was questionable at best.

As to Al Qaeda complaining about the presence of US troops in the middle east, If we had devoted half the resources to Afghanistan that we committed to Iraq, Al Qaeda wouldn't have been in a position to complain about anything. They would have been too busy hiding or running.

 

[Patriot]

I agree- Iraq war ruined Afghanistan as well.Colin Powell knew that the proof was not enough but Bush and Dick Cheney somehow convinced him that we should invade Iraq.

 

[pakomar]

You are interpreting what I am saying all wrong. I never thought the Iraq war was justified. I was opposed to it from the start. It was about two things overall.

Neocon hatred for Saddam and in brief oil. The issue on oil is an oversimplifiction though. It was about access to oil on our terms. The neocons didn't want Saddam to have access to the oil under his terms. They were under this delusion that somehow invading Iraq and deposing Saddam would somehow result in democracy spontaneously arising and then spreading throughout the middle east. Then that would somehow lead to governments that were more favorable to the US. Needless to say these people are not entirely sane.

Well US were the reason the Saddam was in power because to do US dirty work by fighting war with Iran. The main reason was oil that both war fought against Iraq.
If US in so much favor of democracy then Saudi Arabia should be a decorative country.
US also stop favoring dictators in Saudi Arabia.

 

[Twain]

I agree- Iraq war ruined Afghanistan as well.Colin Powell knew that the proof was not enough but Bush and Dick Cheney somehow convinced him that we should invade Iraq.

Powell got told to adopt the neocon argument or hit the road. He chose to adopt the neocon line, something he as admitted that he regrets.

 

[Twain]

Well US were the reason the Saddam was in power because to do US dirty work by fighting war with Iran. The main reason was oil that both war fought against Iraq.
If US in so much favor of democracy then Saudi Arabia should be a decorative country.
US also stop favoring dictators in Saudi Arabia.

Saddam didn't come to power because of the US, We did however assist him when it suited our purposes.

As to the Saudis, that is a deal with the devil. I agree there is a double standard there and eventually it will come back to haunt us. The Saudi royal family came to power and holds on to power by supporting Wahabism, even though the royal family practices essentially none of those beliefs. It is merely a way to stay in power.

As to the US exporting democracy, I don't believe that is what we should be doing. Democracy has to arise from within to be successful, attempting to impose it on other countries is a wasted effort. If the residents of a country don't demand a democratic government on their own, democracy will not survive.

 

[pakomar]

Saddam didn't come to power because of the US, We did however assist him when it suited our purposes.

As to the Saudis, that is a deal with the devil. I agree there is a double standard there and eventually it will come back to haunt us. The Saudi royal family came to power and holds on to power by supporting Wahabism, even though the royal family practices essentially none of those beliefs. It is merely a way to stay in power.

As to the US exporting democracy, I don't believe that is what we should be doing. Democracy has to arise from within to be successful, attempting to impose it on other countries is a wasted effort. If the residents of a country don't demand a democratic government on their own, democracy will not survive.

Finally some one spoke the truth.

 

[Twain]

Finally some one spoke the truth.

The problem with the Saudis now is, what do we do? If the US continues to support them, we are not advocating the same ideals we push in other countries and indirectly prop up a repressive government. So assume we withdraw our support, what effect would that have on the Saudi government?

For the sake of argument lets assume the government would fail, personally I don't think this will happen, but lets say it does. Who then comes to power to replace them? I doubt very much we would see a democratic government come to power. There just isn't any organized opposition to the Saudi government within Saudi Arabia. So that leaves the strong possibility that some coalition of Wahabists come to power, Do we and the rest of the world want to see a government in power in Saudi Arabia that has the potential to be as repressive and extreme as the Wahabists?

 

[zubair723]

The problem with the Saudis now is, what do we do? If the US continues to support them, we are not advocating the same ideals we push in other countries and indirectly prop up a repressive government. So assume we withdraw our support, what effect would that have on the Saudi government?

For the sake of argument lets assume the government would fail, personally I don't think this will happen, but lets say it does. Who then comes to power to replace them? I doubt very much we would see a democratic government come to power. There just isn't any organized opposition to the Saudi government within Saudi Arabia. So that leaves the strong possibility that some coalition of Wahabists come to power, Do we and the rest of the world want to see a government in power in Saudi Arabia that has the potential to be as repressive and extreme as the Wahabists?

The biggest problem in the world is US itself. Stop trying to push your ideals on others. Accept what others are and tend to your own domestic problems which are just making it the greatest 'degenrate' nation in the world

 

[pakomar]

The problem with the Saudis now is, what do we do? If the US continues to support them, we are not advocating the same ideals we push in other countries and indirectly prop up a repressive government. So assume we withdraw our support, what effect would that have on the Saudi government?

For the sake of argument lets assume the government would fail, personally I don't think this will happen, but lets say it does. Who then comes to power to replace them? I doubt very much we would see a democratic government come to power. There just isn't any organized opposition to the Saudi government within Saudi Arabia. So that leaves the strong possibility that some coalition of Wahabists come to power, Do we and the rest of the world want to see a government in power in Saudi Arabia that has the potential to be as repressive and extreme as the Wahabists?

1.Well to answer you question at saddam time before 2nd gulf war Iraq was in total control .no attacks were made on US after 1st gulf war.
2.If a whole war is fought because of no democracy in Iraq than US should n t support Saudi royal family?
3.Its habit of US to support dictatorship if it is in favor of Americans. We saw dictatorship in Iran which was backed by westerns after the end of dictatorship in Iran there is democracy in Iran.
US always have these double standers that why there is injustice and when people stand against this injustice they are called terrorist.