The Sintashta culture of the mid Bronze Age: Our Proto-Indo-Iranic ancestors

[ThunderCat]

 

[ThunderCat]

@Neelo @SecularNationalist @Menace2Society
have a look. So much glorious history forgotten because of the sake of religious fundamentalism.

 

[Neelo]

All this can be claimed if the nation decides so

 

[hussain0216]

@Neelo @SecularNationalist @Menace2Society
have a look. So much glorious history forgotten because of the sake of religious fundamentalism.

It's not forgotten,, it's just that no one cares

 

[ThunderCat]

It's not forgotten,, it's just that no one cares

Only Arab-worshipping Ummah walas don't care, but we the proud sons of the country, do care.

Our culture teaches us to respect our forefathers. That we shall do. No Arab-worshiper will ever stop us.

 

[Maira La]

Sintashta are genetically identical to Bronze Age Central Europe.

I'm guessing proto-Indo-Iranic would be a mix of majority Sintashta + local Central Asian Neolithic substrate.

 

[ThunderCat]

Sintashta are genetically identical to Bronze Age Central Europe.

I'm guessing proto-Indo-Iranic would be a mix of majority Sintashta + local Central Asian Neolithic substrate.

Proto-Indo-Iranic was the language of Sintashta.

Bronze Age Europe might be genetically tied to Sintashta, both derived from the earlier Yamnaya culture. But linguistically Indo-Iranic languages were not of Europe.

Indo-Iranic languages were brought to Europe after later Iron Age conquests.

 

[Maira La]

Proto-Indo-Iranic was the language of Sintashta.

How would you know? It may have been the ancestor of Indo-Iranic, or the ancestor of both Indo-Iranic and Balto-Slavic, or a sister branch to the ancestor of Indo-Iranic.

Bronze Age Europe might be genetically tied to Sintashta, both derived from the earlier Yamnaya culture. But linguistically Indo-Iranic languages were not of Europe.

They are not similar just because both derived from Yamnaya. Yamnaya had small amounts of Anatolian farmer ancestry whereas Sintashta and Corded Ware (Central Europe) had significant amount of it and they are essentially carbon copies of each other as Sintashta are migrants from the Corded Ware archeological zone.

Indo-Iranic languages were brought to Europe after later Iron Age conquests.

Iranic only. The Ossetian language is the last surviving Iranian language in Europe.

 

[ThunderCat]

How would you know? It may have been the ancestor of Indo-Iranic, or the ancestor of both Indo-Iranic and Balto-Slavic, or a sister branch to the ancestor of Indo-Iranic.

Because linguists and archeologists said so. Both said/wrote so. Including in that video.

Proto-Balto-Slavic was not spoken till centuries later. The ancestral Proto-Eurasian language existed much earlier and was already extinct by the time of the Bronze Age.

They are not similar just because both derived from Yamnaya. Yamnaya had small amounts of Anatolian farmer ancestry whereas Sintashta and Corded Ware (Central Europe) had significant amount of it and they are essentially carbon copies of each other as Sintashta are migrants from the Corded Ware archeological zone.

Yamnya existed on the Pontic region. Anatolian farmer ancestry could exist in them maybe yes, but as a linguistic grouping Proto-Anatolian probably came after Proto-Eurasian.

 

[ThunderCat]

Iranic only. The Ossetian language is the last surviving Iranian language in Europe.

Iranic is a subgrouping of Indo-Iranic but yes you're right. However Ossetian and other Iranic languages spoken in Europe were brought during the Iron Age period.

 

[Maira La]

Because linguists and archeologists said so. Both said/wrote so. Including in that video.

Your source? Youtube video is not good enough, any amateur can make their own video.

Proto-Balto-Slavic was not spoken till centuries later. The ancestral Proto-Eurasian language existed much earlier and was already extinct by the time of the Bronze Age.

Didn't say it existed at the time of Sintashta, all I said is that it shares a common origin with Indo-Iranian.

Yamnya existed on the Pontic region. Anatolian farmer ancestry could exist in them maybe yes, but as a linguistic grouping Proto-Anatolian probably came after Proto-Eurasian.

What's Proto-Eurasian? You mean proto-IE? Anatolian is that earliest branch to split from proto-IE.

 

[ThunderCat]

Your source? Youtube video is not good enough, any amateur can make their own video.

Obviously, YT was not my only source if you read my previous post.

Didn't say it existed at the time of Sintashta, all I said is that it shares a common origin with Indo-Iranian.

So where did I dispute that? Proto-Eurasian or the language of the Yamnaya culture is the parent language. And it's Indo-Iranic, not "Indo-Iranian."

What's Proto-Eurasian? You mean proto-IE? Anatolian is that earliest branch to split from proto-IE.

I prefer Eurasian, since the Pontic steppe region is in Eurasia. Just like Uralic languages are named after the Ural mountains, likewise pontic region is a Eurasian region.

 

[Maira La]

Obviously, YT was not my only source if you read my previous post.

You're beating around the bush now.

So where did I dispute that? Proto-Eurasian or the language of the Yamnaya culture is the parent language. And it's Indo-Iranic, not "Indo-Iranian."

You're making the same mistake again. There is no proof that the language Yamnaya spoke is the parent of the language Sintashta spoke. Sintashta is not even directly descended from Yamnaya.

They are connected by having a common origin at Sredny-Stog, before ancestor of Sintashta moved West towards Central Europe.

I prefer Eurasian, since the Pontic steppe region is in Eurasia. Just like Uralic languages are named after the Ural mountains, likewise pontic region is a Eurasian region.

If anything Indo should be dropped from Indo-European because the origin of the proto-IE people lie entirely inside Europe.

 

[ThunderCat]

You're beating around the bush now.

No, I am not.

You're making the same mistake again. There is no proof that the language Yamnaya spoke is the parent of the language Sintashta spoke. Sintashta is not even directly descended from Yamnaya.

Sintashta people originate even further westwards. Proto-Eurasian was the distant ancestor of Proto-Indo-Iranic.

If anything Indo should be dropped from Indo-European because the origin of the proto-IE people lie entirely inside Europe.

It begins in the pontic region which is Eurasia. Even if it began in Anatolia, which now doubtful, that still counts as Eurasia.

Iranic only. The Ossetian language is the last surviving Iranian language in Europe.

It's spoken in the Caucuses. It's an Iranic language, not Iranian.

 

[Maira La]

It begins in the pontic region which is Eurasia. Even if it began in Anatolia, which now doubtful, that still counts as Eurasia.

It's only Yamnaya that existed in the Pontic region. It's not the beginning of IE, and Yamnaya is not the source of Corded Ware, which was the main driver for IE expansion in much of Eurasia (except Afanasievo). Yamnaya's ancestors lie further West in Sredny-Stog in Ukraine - not very Eurasian is it?

It's spoken in the Caucuses. It's an Iranic language, not Iranian.

Iranic = Iranian. Ossetian is classified as an Iranian language.