The Sikh Empire is not "ours"

[Hamza913]

What I dont understand is that why some Pakistani Punjabis try to act close to sikhs in West and try to act we are same people and all that, its really annoying.

Because the stupidity of ethnonationalism and Akhand Bharat has swept the world.

 

[HariSinghNalwa]

It is kind of true ,that history is different for different religion in this region ,for those here batting for khalistani agenda need to know that india can still field as many sikhs in the battlefield ,khalistani agenda or no agenda

 

[Hamza913]

It is kind of true

I find it so strange how some Pakistani Punjabis are okay with cheering on the Sikh Empire, but they never expect Indian Punjabis to start cheering on Wazir Khan, Shahbaz Khan, Sarang Khan, Muqarrab Khan, or other Muslim Punjabis from that era. It seems that self-awareness is not an instinct they possess.

 

[Darwin]

I find it so strange how some Pakistani Punjabis are okay with cheering on the Sikh Empire, but they never expect Indian Punjabis to start cheering on Wazir Khan, Shahbaz Khan, Sarang Khan, Muqarrab Khan, or other Muslim Punjabis from that era. It seems their self-awareness is capped to themselves.

We don't like khusras. Sent them all to Pakistan.

 

[niaz]

It is a historical fact that Sikhs under Banda Bairagi started an insurrection and captured the sites of Mustafabad & Samana from the Mughals in the eastern Punjab (Haryana) until his capture in 1715 at Gurdas Nangal.

Nadir Shah’s invasion of 1730 had seriously weakened the Mughal hold on their empire, which was made worse by the rise of the Marathas. The nail in the coffin was the Durrani invasions from 1748 onward. Thereafter it was a fight between the Marathas & the Durranis for the control of Punjab with Delhi having little say in the fortunes of Punjab. Sikh leaders took advantage of the Afghan /Maratha fights and consolidated their power into 12 Misls.

The fact that Sikha Shahi established in 1799 lasted until 1849 cannot be denied. Sikhs were the indigenous Punjabi converts from Hinduism but majority of the population Pakistani Punjab & Sind are also converts from Hinduism to Islam.

Whether it was good or bad is immaterial; it is incorrect to say that Sikh empire was not ‘Ours’. There were people living in this region before the Mohammed bin Qasim invasion. Besides percentage of Pashtun settlers south of Indus was very small.

I would agree that Sikha Shahi was bad for the Muslims but unlike the Indo-Greeks, Kushans,. Huns, Turks & the Afghans; Ranjeet Singh was probably the only truly indigenous ruler of Punjab since Porus.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

• My elders referred to ranjit Singh as kanna kanjar. Obviously, they didn't like him.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

It is a historical fact that Sikhs under Banda Bairagi started an insurrection and captured the sites of Mustafabad & Samana from the Mughals in the eastern Punjab (Haryana) until his capture in 1715 at Gurdas Nangal.

Nadir Shah’s invasion of 1730 had seriously weakened the Mughal hold on their empire, which was made worse by the rise of the Marathas. The nail in the coffin was the Durrani invasions from 1748 onward. Thereafter it was a fight between the Marathas & the Durranis for the control of Punjab with Delhi having little say in the fortunes of Punjab. Sikh leaders took advantage of the Afghan /Maratha fights and consolidated their power into 12 Misls.

The fact that Sikha Shahi established in 1799 lasted until 1849 cannot be denied. Sikhs were the indigenous Punjabi converts from Hinduism but majority of the population Pakistani Punjab & Sind are also converts from Hinduism to Islam.

Whether it was good or bad is immaterial; it is incorrect to say that Sikh empire was not ‘Ours’. There were people living in this region before the Mohammed bin Qasim invasion. Besides percentage of Pashtun settlers south of Indus was very small.

I would agree that Sikha Shahi was bad for the Muslims but unlike the Indo-Greeks, Kushans,. Huns, Turks & the Afghans; Ranjeet Singh was probably the only truly indigenous ruler of Punjab since Porus.

It is a historical fact that Sikhs under Banda Bairagi started an insurrection and captured the sites of Mustafabad & Samana from the Mughals in the eastern Punjab (Haryana) until his capture in 1715 at Gurdas Nangal.

Nadir Shah’s invasion of 1730 had seriously weakened the Mughal hold on their empire, which was made worse by the rise of the Marathas. The nail in the coffin was the Durrani invasions from 1748 onward. Thereafter it was a fight between the Marathas & the Durranis for the control of Punjab with Delhi having little say in the fortunes of Punjab. Sikh leaders took advantage of the Afghan /Maratha fights and consolidated their power into 12 Misls.

The fact that Sikha Shahi established in 1799 lasted until 1849 cannot be denied. Sikhs were the indigenous Punjabi converts from Hinduism but majority of the population Pakistani Punjab & Sind are also converts from Hinduism to Islam.

Whether it was good or bad is immaterial; it is incorrect to say that Sikh empire was not ‘Ours’. There were people living in this region before the Mohammed bin Qasim invasion. Besides percentage of Pashtun settlers south of Indus was very small.

I would agree that Sikha Shahi was bad for the Muslims but unlike the Indo-Greeks, Kushans,. Huns, Turks & the Afghans; Ranjeet Singh was probably the only truly indigenous ruler of Punjab since Porus.

But the sikhs are nobodies now after the glorious operation bluestar, 1984........

 

[AfrazulMandal]

If the Sikh empire encompasses what is now present day Pakistan then surely it's part of your history. The Pala and Sena empires constitute what is present day BD but many people also regard it as Jahilliyah too

It WAS Jahiliyah. Is there a doubt?

I'm a Kashmiri and it's well-known among us what they did.

Pls enlighted us.

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

The thread is 'Sikh Empire' and @Indus Pakistan hasn't commented yet.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The question is not of being "ours" but that it was a reality that shaped what is Pakistan today. As such that history has to be 'owned' because it was fact. Accepting it does not mean we have to like it.

 

[cringe master]

Some people (cough cough @M. Sarmad ) seem to think that the Sikh Empire were liked by people of the Indus for defending the region from the Durrani Empire, since the latter came from Afghanistan. Since they also came from the Indus, people seem to think this makes them "ours", when this couldn't be further from the truth.

First of all, it's important to remember that the Durrani Empire itself was Pashtun, and Pakistan itself has the world's largest population of Pashtuns. Not only that, but Durranis are present in Pakistan, with well-known individuals such as Asad Durrani belonging to the very same tribe (as his name would suggest). The Durrani Empire also had not just Pashtuns fight in their army, but also Balochis and even Punjabis (Gakhars specifically). Both of these ethnicities are also major communities in Pakistan (as we all know):

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ved=0ahUKEwiBk-nu1erfAhVUuHEKHZufBFIQ6AEIKDAA

http://www.uob.edu.pk/journals/TREATY OF KALAT 1758 BETWEEN QANDHAR AND KALAT AND ITS IMPACTS.pdf

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/reference/gazetteer/pager.html?objectid=DS405.1.I34_V06_284.gif

The founder of the Durrani Empire (Ahmed Shah Durrani), is also believed by many to have been born in Multan, a city in Pakistan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Durrani#Early_years

Sources cited in the Wikipedia link:

1. Nichols, Robert (2015). "Aḥmad Shāh Durrānī". In Fleet, Kate; Krämer, Gudrun; Matringe, Denis; Nawas, John; Rowson, Everett. Encyclopaedia of Islam, THREE. ISSN 1873-9830. Aḥmad Shāh Durrānī (r. 1160–86/1747–72), of the Sadozay section of the Popalzay lineage of the Abdālī Afghans, was the first Sadozay ruler of Afghanistan, founding the Durrānī empire in 1160/1747. Born in Multān (which was disputed with Herat) as Aḥmad Khān, second son of Zamān Khān Abdālī (d. 1135/1722), then governor of Herat, he arose from the lineage, regional, and imperial competitions of the age to establish an independent Afghan power.
2. ^ Hanifi, Shah Mahmoud (2008). Connecting Histories in Afghanistan: Market Relations and State Formation on a Colonial Frontier. Stanford, California: Stanford University Press. p. 42. ISBN 978-0804777773. Ahmad Shah (ruled 1747–72), the ephemeral empire's founder, was born in Multan in 1722.
3. ^ Roy, Kaushik; Lorge, Peter, eds. (2015). Chinese and Indian Warfare – From the Classical Age to 1870. Routledge. p. 95. ISBN 978-1317587101. Ahmad Khan later known as Ahmad Shah Durrani/Abdali was born in 1722 at Multan.
4. ^ Mehta, J. L. (2005). Advanced study in the history of modern India 1707–1813. Sterling Publishers Pvt. Ltd. p. 247. ISBN 978-1-932705-54-6. Retrieved 23 September 2010.

Peshawar was also the winter capital of the Durrani Empire, making it one of their major cities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durrani_Empire

Sources cited in the Wikipedia link:

1. Hanifi, Shah Mahmoud. "Timur Shah transferred the Durrani capital from Qandahar in 1775-76. Kabul and Peshawar then shared time as the dual Durrani capital cities, the former during the summer and the latter during the winter season." p. 185. Connecting Histories in Afghanistan: Market Relations and State Formation on a Colonial Frontier. Stanford University Press, 2011. Retrieved 2012-08-04.
2. ^ Jump up to:a b Singh, Sarina (2008). "Like the Kushans, the Afghan kings favoured Peshawar as a winter residence, and were aggrieved when the upstart Sikh kingdom snatched it in 1818 and levelled its buildings." p. 191. Pakistan and the Karakoram Highway. Retrieved 2012-08-10.

Beyond that, many people from the Indus fought bitterly against the Sikh Empire, such as (but not limited to):

Ahmed Khan Karral, Punjabi rebel who resisted the Sikh Empire until their very collapse, after which he fought against the British and was finally defeated:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Khan_Kharal

Source cited in Wikipedia link:

AD Ejaz 'Ahmad Khan Kharal', 1985

The Karlal tribe. In 1822, Ranjit Singh sent a large force under famous General Amar Singh Majitta which was defeated by Karlals with great slaughter. Amar Singh was also murdered by the Karlal. Lepel Griffin, the author of Colonial History of Hazara, writes in his book about this battle of Sumandar Khata. From 1822 to 1845 Karlal tribe fought many battles with Sikhs and were able to retain their independence. In 1844 once again Lahore Darbar sent a large force under Diwan Mulraj and Hari Singh to subdue Karlal country. Taking advantage of the difficult geographical terrain of their country, the Karlals were able to defeat Sikh army at a place called Nah and killed more than 150 Sikh soldiers:

https://newpakhistorian.wordpress.com/tag/karlal/

Ruhullah Khan, Gujjar from Kashmir who defeated Ranjit Singh three times in battle:

https://javaidrahi.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/the-gujjars-vol-1-ed-dr-javaid-rahi.pdf (page 33)

The Sikh Empire's oppression of Muslims is also well known. They banned the Azaan, turned Masjids into stables, sold Muslim women as slaves, killed thousands of Muslim children, etc. Their worst enemies were also Muslim (as already proven):

http://materiaislamica.com/index.php/Persecution_of_Muslims_in_the_Sikh_Empire_(1799—1849)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims#Sikhs_and_Sikh_Empire

Sources cited in Wikipedia link:

1. Syad Muhammad Latif (1964), History of the Panjab: From the Remotest Antiquity to Present Time, pp. 111–21
2. ^ Lawrence, Sir Walter Roper (1895). The Valley of Kashmir. ISBN 978-8120616301.
3. ^ "Languages of Belonging".
4. ^ Deol, Harnik (2000). Religion and Nationalism in India. ISBN 978-0415201087.
5. ^ Explore Kashmiri Pandits. ISBN 9780963479860.
6. ^ Joshi-Ford, Sunita (2008-07-11). Jihad. ISBN 978-1606931615.
7. ^ Metcalf, Barbara D; Metcalf, Thomas R (2002). A Concise History of India. ISBN 978-0521639743.
8. ^ "Full text of "Gulab Singh 1792 1858"". Archive.org. Retrieved 2016-02-09.
9. ^ Bakshi, G.D. (2002). Footprints in the Snow. ISBN 978-8170622925.

To summarise, the Sikh Empire were the enemies of our people, not their friends. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know history.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @PAKISTANFOREVER @MultaniGuy @Samlee @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @JohnWick @Talwar e Pakistan

lol

 

[Hamza913]

Sikhs were the indigenous Punjabi

They could be own family members for all I care, I'd still hate them. I follow the example of Berke Khan, who fought against Hulagu in the name of Islam after he converted, even though the latter was his brother.

but majority of the population Pakistani Punjab & Sind are also converts from Hinduism to Islam.

Not really, most of us are descended from the Islamic conquerors (Pathans, Baloch, Awans, Arains, Syeds, Qurayshis, Ansaris, etc). And even the ones that converted still fought for the Muslim empires.

Ranjeet Singh was probably the only truly indigenous ruler of Punjab since Porus.

100% hogwash. Sarang and Muqarrab Khan were both Punjabis who also ruled over portions of the Punjab, Wazir Khan was the Qazi of Lahore during Mughal rule, Shah Jahan was from Lahore and had Rajput ancestry, Adina Beg was another Punjabi who acted as a Mughal governor of the Punjab, Ahmed Khan Karral and Mahmud Khatana both ruled parts of the Punjab as well, the Ghaznacids alloted Muslim Punjabis land to rule over, and plenty of Muslim Punjabis acted as jagirs during the Mughal Empire. Not to mention the numerous Punjabis who occupied high positions outside of the Punjab, or the dynasties of originally Punjabi origin (e.g the Muslim Mysoreans).

And it's not like most Punjabis are completely indingeous either. Pretty much all of us either came with the pre-Islamic conquerors, or the post-Islamic ones.

 

[Musalman]

I'm talking about who people take as their heroes. For Pakistanis (other than the Sikhs) to view the Sikh Empire as their heroes is stupid, they fought against our people regularly.

If some one take them as heros, its their choice. Same goes for people who take Ahmed Shah Abdali as hero. But our folk lore says otherwise. We punjabi hated him, coz he came and plunder our land. Baba Bulley said : Khada peda lai da, baqi Ahmed Shahay da
Eat what ever you have, rest Ahmad Shah will plunder.

 

[Hamza913]

If some one take them as heros, its their choice.

It's still a dumb one.

Same goes for people who take Ahmed Shah Abdali as hero. But our folk lore says otherwise. We punjabi hated him

Tell that to the Punjabis who fought for him lol.

coz he came and plunder our land.

He plundered Khalsa land. The Punjab was not Darul Islam at that time, it was Darul Harb. It wasn't ours, the Khalsa took it from us and the Durranis (may Allah have mercy on them) tried to take it back and managed to succeed for a little bit.

Baba Bulley

It was actually Waris Shah, and I'm not surprised that idiot would support the Khalsa over his fellow Muslims.

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Tell that to the Punjabis who fought for him lol.

They are no more. They died in olden times.