The Sikh Empire is not "ours"

[GHALIB]

proud or not to be proud , sikhs are part of history .they ruled most of the land where pakistan is today.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Mohammad bin qasim supporter first should go and water the garden named under his name in karachi it has been rotting for last 5 years inside Pakistan forget about Sikh empire

It used to look like this when Musharaf was Leader

 

[GHALIB]

Mohammad bin qasim supporter first should go and water the garden named under his name in karachi it has been rotting for last 5 years inside Pakistan forget about Sikh empire

View attachment 532659


It used to look like this when Musharaf was Leader

how sad .

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Sikh independence from India and Kashmir fredom from India is a united cause and as Pakistani that is what I fully understand

 

[GHALIB]

Sikh independence from India and Kashmir fredom from India is a united cause and as Pakistani that is what I fully understand

Tough job .

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Those of us from East Punjab and Occupied Kashmir know enough about the love of Sikhs for Muslim Punjabis/Kashmiris.

We will resist such love with the barrel of a gun.

Still waiting for @PAKISTANFOREVER to come...

If the Sikh empire encompasses what is now present day Pakistan then surely it's part of your history. The Pala and Sena empires constitute what is present day BD but many people also regard it as Jahilliyah too

It was a foreign occupation, and a very bloody one.

Some of our Punjabis are afflicted with the inability to see the past or rose-colored lenses for absolute tyrants in the name of aman ko asha.

Forget that, you will never see a Pukhtoon brother take up for the Sikhs, and there is a reason for that.

 

[Darwin]

I support population exchange. Since Pakistan still has around 3.6 m Hindus and we have more than enough Pakistan loving Muslims, a 1:1 exchange can take place. Only criteria should be that their complete families should leave. No family passes once gone to land of pure.

 

[SorryNotSorry]

Punjab is Punjab. You share history, culture and language.
That is what makes it hard to pretend.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Obvious. If Hindus and Sikhs were similar to the Muslims,, what was the point of asking for Pakistan ?
The west is west and the east is east , never the twain shall meet.

Sikhs had asked for their own state; they only joined India under the promise that they would be an autonomous territory.

India backstabbed that promise once the Sikhs were done doing the dirty work during partition.

Some people (cough cough @M. Sarmad ) seem to think that the Sikh Empire were liked by people of the Indus for defending the region from the Durrani Empire, since the latter came from Afghanistan. Since they also came from the Indus, people seem to think this makes them "ours", when this couldn't be further from the truth.

First of all, it's important to remember that the Durrani Empire itself was Pashtun, and Pakistan itself has the world's largest population of Pashtuns. Not only that, but Durranis are present in Pakistan, with well-known individuals such as Asad Durrani belonging to the very same tribe (as his name would suggest). The Durrani Empire also had not just Pashtuns fight in their army, but also Balochis and even Punjabis (Gakhars specifically). Both of these ethnicities are also major communities in Pakistan (as we all know):

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ved=0ahUKEwiBk-nu1erfAhVUuHEKHZufBFIQ6AEIKDAA

http://www.uob.edu.pk/journals/TREATY OF KALAT 1758 BETWEEN QANDHAR AND KALAT AND ITS IMPACTS.pdf

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/reference/gazetteer/pager.html?objectid=DS405.1.I34_V06_284.gif

The founder of the Durrani Empire (Ahmed Shah Durrani), is also believed by many to have been born in Multan, a city in Pakistan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Durrani#Early_years

Sources cited in the Wikipedia link:

1. Nichols, Robert (2015). "Aḥmad Shāh Durrānī". In Fleet, Kate; Krämer, Gudrun; Matringe, Denis; Nawas, John; Rowson, Everett. Encyclopaedia of Islam, THREE. ISSN 1873-9830. Aḥmad Shāh Durrānī (r. 1160–86/1747–72), of the Sadozay section of the Popalzay lineage of the Abdālī Afghans, was the first Sadozay ruler of Afghanistan, founding the Durrānī empire in 1160/1747. Born in Multān (which was disputed with Herat) as Aḥmad Khān, second son of Zamān Khān Abdālī (d. 1135/1722), then governor of Herat, he arose from the lineage, regional, and imperial competitions of the age to establish an independent Afghan power.
2. ^ Hanifi, Shah Mahmoud (2008). Connecting Histories in Afghanistan: Market Relations and State Formation on a Colonial Frontier. Stanford, California: Stanford University Press. p. 42. ISBN 978-0804777773. Ahmad Shah (ruled 1747–72), the ephemeral empire's founder, was born in Multan in 1722.
3. ^ Roy, Kaushik; Lorge, Peter, eds. (2015). Chinese and Indian Warfare – From the Classical Age to 1870. Routledge. p. 95. ISBN 978-1317587101. Ahmad Khan later known as Ahmad Shah Durrani/Abdali was born in 1722 at Multan.
4. ^ Mehta, J. L. (2005). Advanced study in the history of modern India 1707–1813. Sterling Publishers Pvt. Ltd. p. 247. ISBN 978-1-932705-54-6. Retrieved 23 September 2010.

Peshawar was also the winter capital of the Durrani Empire, making it one of their major cities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durrani_Empire

Sources cited in the Wikipedia link:

1. Hanifi, Shah Mahmoud. "Timur Shah transferred the Durrani capital from Qandahar in 1775-76. Kabul and Peshawar then shared time as the dual Durrani capital cities, the former during the summer and the latter during the winter season." p. 185. Connecting Histories in Afghanistan: Market Relations and State Formation on a Colonial Frontier. Stanford University Press, 2011. Retrieved 2012-08-04.
2. ^ Jump up to:a b Singh, Sarina (2008). "Like the Kushans, the Afghan kings favoured Peshawar as a winter residence, and were aggrieved when the upstart Sikh kingdom snatched it in 1818 and levelled its buildings." p. 191. Pakistan and the Karakoram Highway. Retrieved 2012-08-10.

Beyond that, many people from the Indus fought bitterly against the Sikh Empire, such as (but not limited to):

Ahmed Khan Karral, Punjabi rebel who resisted the Sikh Empire until their very collapse, after which he fought against the British and was finally defeated:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Khan_Kharal

Source cited in Wikipedia link:

AD Ejaz 'Ahmad Khan Kharal', 1985

The Karlal tribe. In 1822, Ranjit Singh sent a large force under famous General Amar Singh Majitta which was defeated by Karlals with great slaughter. Amar Singh was also murdered by the Karlal. Lepel Griffin, the author of Colonial History of Hazara, writes in his book about this battle of Sumandar Khata. From 1822 to 1845 Karlal tribe fought many battles with Sikhs and were able to retain their independence. In 1844 once again Lahore Darbar sent a large force under Diwan Mulraj and Hari Singh to subdue Karlal country. Taking advantage of the difficult geographical terrain of their country, the Karlals were able to defeat Sikh army at a place called Nah and killed more than 150 Sikh soldiers:

https://newpakhistorian.wordpress.com/tag/karlal/

Ruhullah Khan, Gujjar from Kashmir who defeated Ranjit Singh three times in battle:

https://javaidrahi.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/the-gujjars-vol-1-ed-dr-javaid-rahi.pdf (page 33)

The Sikh Empire's oppression of Muslims is also well known. They banned the Azaan, turned Masjids into stables, sold Muslim women as slaves, killed thousands of Muslim children, etc. Their worst enemies were also Muslim (as already proven):

http://materiaislamica.com/index.php/Persecution_of_Muslims_in_the_Sikh_Empire_(1799—1849)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims#Sikhs_and_Sikh_Empire

Sources cited in Wikipedia link:

1. Syad Muhammad Latif (1964), History of the Panjab: From the Remotest Antiquity to Present Time, pp. 111–21
2. ^ Lawrence, Sir Walter Roper (1895). The Valley of Kashmir. ISBN 978-8120616301.
3. ^ "Languages of Belonging".
4. ^ Deol, Harnik (2000). Religion and Nationalism in India. ISBN 978-0415201087.
5. ^ Explore Kashmiri Pandits. ISBN 9780963479860.
6. ^ Joshi-Ford, Sunita (2008-07-11). Jihad. ISBN 978-1606931615.
7. ^ Metcalf, Barbara D; Metcalf, Thomas R (2002). A Concise History of India. ISBN 978-0521639743.
8. ^ "Full text of "Gulab Singh 1792 1858"". Archive.org. Retrieved 2016-02-09.
9. ^ Bakshi, G.D. (2002). Footprints in the Snow. ISBN 978-8170622925.

To summarise, the Sikh Empire were the enemies of our people, not their friends. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know history.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @PAKISTANFOREVER @MultaniGuy @Samlee @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @JohnWick @Talwar e Pakistan

They were both a part of Pakistan's history and had their goods and bads. Durranis were not saints; I'm a Kashmiri and it's well-known among us what they did.

Punjabis fought for both sides and they always have; just as they did during Alexander's invasion of the Indus region.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Those of us from East Punjab and Occupied Kashmir know enough about the love of Sikhs for Muslim Punjabis/Kashmiris.

We will resist such love with the barrel of a gun.

Still waiting for @PAKISTANFOREVER to come...



It was a foreign occupation, and a very bloody one.

Some of our Punjabis are afflicted with the inability to see the past or rose-colored lenses for absolute tyrants in the name of aman ko asha.

Forget that, you will never see a Pukhtoon brother take up for the Sikhs, and there is a reason for that.

The sikhs are the BIGGEST enemies of Pakistanis and Muslims. The sikh massacre of over 1 million innocent Pakistanis in August 1947 is testament to that fact. NO OTHER race or community on this earth has EVER committed an atrocity like that against the Pakistani people. That can NEVER EVER be forgotton or forgiven. It is in the sikh ideology, culture and psyche to have a blood thirsty hatred against Pakistanis and Muslims. In fact it is their religious duty to annihilate EVERY single Muslim off the face of the planet. The reason why the sikhs don't do anything against us anymore is because they are now a pathetic, inferior, irrelevant, meaningless and worthless entity on the world stage. There are over 2 billion Muslims worldwide and Pakistan is a fully fledged nuclear weapons state. The reason why the sikhs are a pathetic and inferior race is thanks to operation bluestar in 1984. They will probably never rise up again and become a major world force. If they try to, the indian military will probably eradicate them. Quite rightly so.

Even after 71 years, the Israelis have NEVER EVER committed an atrocity against Palestinians, Arabs or Muslims like the sikhs did against us in August 1947. Yet naive Pakistanis cry for the Palestinians because the Israelis are rude to them, but are happy to be warm towards the sikhs who are our REAL enemies.........it is utter madness!!!!!!!!!!!!

The sikhs never had a kingdom. They were slave soldiers for the British empire and fought against Muslims. The British gave the some land for their slavery to the crown. That's all.

Anyone who considers the sikhs as the allies of Pakistan and Pakistanis/Muslims is not a REAL Muslim but a Kuffar of the highest order.

A Pakistani saying the sikh empire is "ours" is like an Israeli Jew saying Nazi Germany is "our empire".

 

[Hamza913]

Punjab is Punjab. You share history, culture and language.

Muslim and Kafir Punjabis have literally been at each other's throats for our entire history, especially Muslims and Sikhs. Lahore itself was a major city for just about every Islamic empire from the region (Ghaznavids, Ghurids, Delhi Sultanate and Mughals), and many Muslim Punjabis held high positions in these Muslim empires (e.g Wazir Khan, Shahbaz Khan, Adina Beg, Sarang Khan, etc) and acted as soldiers for them (the Ghaznavids were well known for recruiting mercenaries from the Punjab and other parts of the Indian sub-continent).

Our culture is pretty different, e.g Muslim Punjabis don't drink alcohol, our women cover up more, we wear head-caps, we cut our hair, we don't wear bindi, we pray in Arabic, we keep Turkic, Arabic and Persian names, we tend to speak Urdu rather than Punjabi, we have different tribes/clans (you will not get Kafir Punjabis that are Awans, Arains, Qureshis, Syeds, Ansaris, Mughals, Baras, Pathans, Balochis, or Kashmiris among others in origin, where as these sorts of groups make-up the majority of Muslim Punjabis), etc.

As for language, as said before, we usually speak Urdu rather than Punjabi. We also write in a Perso-Arabic script for both Urdu and Punjabi, which other Punjabis can't read.

That is what makes it hard to pretend.

Pretend what? All I've said is that for us to take the Sikh Empire as our hero is incredibly stupid.

A Pakistani saying the sikh empire is "ours" is like an Israeli Jew saying Nazi Germany is "our empire".

Exactly. You'd never get any Jew, even a German one saying that the Nazis were "part of their history".

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Some people (cough cough @M. Sarmad ) seem to think that the Sikh Empire were liked by people of the Indus for defending the region from the Durrani Empire, since the latter came from Afghanistan. Since they also came from the Indus, people seem to think this makes them "ours", when this couldn't be further from the truth.

First of all, it's important to remember that the Durrani Empire itself was Pashtun, and Pakistan itself has the world's largest population of Pashtuns. Not only that, but Durranis are present in Pakistan, with well-known individuals such as Asad Durrani belonging to the very same tribe (as his name would suggest). The Durrani Empire also had not just Pashtuns fight in their army, but also Balochis and even Punjabis (Gakhars specifically). Both of these ethnicities are also major communities in Pakistan (as we all know):

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ved=0ahUKEwiBk-nu1erfAhVUuHEKHZufBFIQ6AEIKDAA

http://www.uob.edu.pk/journals/TREATY OF KALAT 1758 BETWEEN QANDHAR AND KALAT AND ITS IMPACTS.pdf

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/reference/gazetteer/pager.html?objectid=DS405.1.I34_V06_284.gif

The founder of the Durrani Empire (Ahmed Shah Durrani), is also believed by many to have been born in Multan, a city in Pakistan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Durrani#Early_years

Sources cited in the Wikipedia link:

1. Nichols, Robert (2015). "Aḥmad Shāh Durrānī". In Fleet, Kate; Krämer, Gudrun; Matringe, Denis; Nawas, John; Rowson, Everett. Encyclopaedia of Islam, THREE. ISSN 1873-9830. Aḥmad Shāh Durrānī (r. 1160–86/1747–72), of the Sadozay section of the Popalzay lineage of the Abdālī Afghans, was the first Sadozay ruler of Afghanistan, founding the Durrānī empire in 1160/1747. Born in Multān (which was disputed with Herat) as Aḥmad Khān, second son of Zamān Khān Abdālī (d. 1135/1722), then governor of Herat, he arose from the lineage, regional, and imperial competitions of the age to establish an independent Afghan power.
2. ^ Hanifi, Shah Mahmoud (2008). Connecting Histories in Afghanistan: Market Relations and State Formation on a Colonial Frontier. Stanford, California: Stanford University Press. p. 42. ISBN 978-0804777773. Ahmad Shah (ruled 1747–72), the ephemeral empire's founder, was born in Multan in 1722.
3. ^ Roy, Kaushik; Lorge, Peter, eds. (2015). Chinese and Indian Warfare – From the Classical Age to 1870. Routledge. p. 95. ISBN 978-1317587101. Ahmad Khan later known as Ahmad Shah Durrani/Abdali was born in 1722 at Multan.
4. ^ Mehta, J. L. (2005). Advanced study in the history of modern India 1707–1813. Sterling Publishers Pvt. Ltd. p. 247. ISBN 978-1-932705-54-6. Retrieved 23 September 2010.

Peshawar was also the winter capital of the Durrani Empire, making it one of their major cities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durrani_Empire

Sources cited in the Wikipedia link:

1. Hanifi, Shah Mahmoud. "Timur Shah transferred the Durrani capital from Qandahar in 1775-76. Kabul and Peshawar then shared time as the dual Durrani capital cities, the former during the summer and the latter during the winter season." p. 185. Connecting Histories in Afghanistan: Market Relations and State Formation on a Colonial Frontier. Stanford University Press, 2011. Retrieved 2012-08-04.
2. ^ Jump up to:a b Singh, Sarina (2008). "Like the Kushans, the Afghan kings favoured Peshawar as a winter residence, and were aggrieved when the upstart Sikh kingdom snatched it in 1818 and levelled its buildings." p. 191. Pakistan and the Karakoram Highway. Retrieved 2012-08-10.

Beyond that, many people from the Indus fought bitterly against the Sikh Empire, such as (but not limited to):

Ahmed Khan Karral, Punjabi rebel who resisted the Sikh Empire until their very collapse, after which he fought against the British and was finally defeated:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Khan_Kharal

Source cited in Wikipedia link:

AD Ejaz 'Ahmad Khan Kharal', 1985

The Karlal tribe. In 1822, Ranjit Singh sent a large force under famous General Amar Singh Majitta which was defeated by Karlals with great slaughter. Amar Singh was also murdered by the Karlal. Lepel Griffin, the author of Colonial History of Hazara, writes in his book about this battle of Sumandar Khata. From 1822 to 1845 Karlal tribe fought many battles with Sikhs and were able to retain their independence. In 1844 once again Lahore Darbar sent a large force under Diwan Mulraj and Hari Singh to subdue Karlal country. Taking advantage of the difficult geographical terrain of their country, the Karlals were able to defeat Sikh army at a place called Nah and killed more than 150 Sikh soldiers:

https://newpakhistorian.wordpress.com/tag/karlal/

Ruhullah Khan, Gujjar from Kashmir who defeated Ranjit Singh three times in battle:

https://javaidrahi.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/the-gujjars-vol-1-ed-dr-javaid-rahi.pdf (page 33)

The Sikh Empire's oppression of Muslims is also well known. They banned the Azaan, turned Masjids into stables, sold Muslim women as slaves, killed thousands of Muslim children, etc. Their worst enemies were also Muslim (as already proven):

http://materiaislamica.com/index.php/Persecution_of_Muslims_in_the_Sikh_Empire_(1799—1849)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims#Sikhs_and_Sikh_Empire

Sources cited in Wikipedia link:

1. Syad Muhammad Latif (1964), History of the Panjab: From the Remotest Antiquity to Present Time, pp. 111–21
2. ^ Lawrence, Sir Walter Roper (1895). The Valley of Kashmir. ISBN 978-8120616301.
3. ^ "Languages of Belonging".
4. ^ Deol, Harnik (2000). Religion and Nationalism in India. ISBN 978-0415201087.
5. ^ Explore Kashmiri Pandits. ISBN 9780963479860.
6. ^ Joshi-Ford, Sunita (2008-07-11). Jihad. ISBN 978-1606931615.
7. ^ Metcalf, Barbara D; Metcalf, Thomas R (2002). A Concise History of India. ISBN 978-0521639743.
8. ^ "Full text of "Gulab Singh 1792 1858"". Archive.org. Retrieved 2016-02-09.
9. ^ Bakshi, G.D. (2002). Footprints in the Snow. ISBN 978-8170622925.

To summarise, the Sikh Empire were the enemies of our people, not their friends. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know history.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @PAKISTANFOREVER @MultaniGuy @Samlee @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @JohnWick @Talwar e Pakistan

I'm pakhtoon and I say I have no issue with it. All the empires or states that were within or influenced by the lands of modern day pakistan is ours. It's my history and I dont care if they fought against my ancestors and my ancestors or my kin would have no problem with it too. Its history and history has many turns and twists. It's our history.

 

[GHALIB]

The sikhs are the BIGGEST enemies of Pakistanis and Muslims. The sikh massacre of over 1 million innocent Pakistanis in August 1947 is testament to that fact. NO OTHER race or community on this earth has EVER committed an atrocity like that against the Pakistani people. That can NEVER EVER be forgotton or forgiven. It is in the sikh ideology, culture and psyche to have a blood thirsty hatred against Pakistanis and Muslims. In fact it is their religious duty to annihilate EVERY single Muslim off the face of the planet. The reason why the sikhs don't do anything against us anymore is because they are now a pathetic, inferior, irrelevant, meaningless and worthless entity on the world stage. There are over 2 billion Muslims worldwide and Pakistan is a fully fledged nuclear weapons state. The reason why the sikhs are a pathetic and inferior race is thanks to operation bluestar in 1984. They will probably never rise up again and become a major world force. If they try to, the indian military will probably eradicate them. Quite rightly so.

Even after 71 years, the Israelis have NEVER EVER committed an atrocity against Palestinians, Arabs or Muslims like the sikhs did against us in August 1947. Yet naive Pakistanis cry for the Palestinians because the Israelis are rude to them, but are happy to be warm towards the sikhs who are our REAL enemies.........it is utter madness!!!!!!!!!!!!

The sikhs never had a kingdom. They were slave soldiers for the British empire and fought against Muslims. The British gave the some land for their slavery to the crown. That's all.

Anyone who considers the sikhs as the allies of Pakistan and Pakistanis/Muslims is not a REAL Muslim but a Kuffar of the highest order.

A Pakistani saying the sikh empire is "ours" is like an Israeli Jew saying Nazi Germany is "our empire".

both sides killed one another in 1947 .sikhs or muslims both killed migrating population.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

both sides killed one another in 1947 .sikhs or muslims both killed migrating population.

Death toll tilted heavily to the unarmed Muslim civilian population.

Heavily armed, well-trained, and well-funded Sikh mobs had almost free reign, and full support of Police/military, to kill as many Muslims as possible.

You literally cannot make the equivalence.

Muslims had no real answer to them but to flee unarmed on foot or get defenselessly massacred on trains.

Pakistan absorbed about 14 million Muslim Punjabi refugees, of which 1 million were kidnapped, raped, butchered, or burned alive.

Casualties were disproportionally women and children.

The so-called Sikh empire was not much different, and took the joint efforts of Pukhtoon and Punjabi Muslim Mujahideen to defeat.

 

[Progressive1]

Most Sikhs were foreigners to Pakistan Punjab, most sikhs were brought by Ranjit singh to Pakistan region. Origin of most Sikh is in doab region of East Punjab while Durranis were Pashtuns,who were locals. Pakistan is successor state of Durrani empire.

The sikhs are the BIGGEST enemies of Pakistanis and Muslims. The sikh massacre of over 1 million innocent Pakistanis in August 1947 is testament to that fact. NO OTHER race or community on this earth has EVER committed an atrocity like that against the Pakistani people. That can NEVER EVER be forgotton or forgiven. It is in the sikh ideology, culture and psyche to have a blood thirsty hatred against Pakistanis and Muslims. In fact it is their religious duty to annihilate EVERY single Muslim off the face of the planet. The reason why the sikhs don't do anything against us anymore is because they are now a pathetic, inferior, irrelevant, meaningless and worthless entity on the world stage. There are over 2 billion Muslims worldwide and Pakistan is a fully fledged nuclear weapons state. The reason why the sikhs are a pathetic and inferior race is thanks to operation bluestar in 1984. They will probably never rise up again and become a major world force. If they try to, the indian military will probably eradicate them. Quite rightly so.

Even after 71 years, the Israelis have NEVER EVER committed an atrocity against Palestinians, Arabs or Muslims like the sikhs did against us in August 1947. Yet naive Pakistanis cry for the Palestinians because the Israelis are rude to them, but are happy to be warm towards the sikhs who are our REAL enemies.........it is utter madness!!!!!!!!!!!!

The sikhs never had a kingdom. They were slave soldiers for the British empire and fought against Muslims. The British gave the some land for their slavery to the crown. That's all.

Anyone who considers the sikhs as the allies of Pakistan and Pakistanis/Muslims is not a REAL Muslim but a Kuffar of the highest order.

A Pakistani saying the sikh empire is "ours" is like an Israeli Jew saying Nazi Germany is "our empire".

What I dont understand is that why some Pakistani Punjabis try to act close to sikhs in West and try to act we are same people and all that, its really annoying.