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The second coming of a Quaid

Vish

Why is it not Nehru the object of your hate?? How is it that all blame for Hindu Muslim problems are deposited in Pakistan and not in India?

Most Pakistanis have a difficult time understanding this new history that Indian Hindus insist is the only history and judging by the non-stop probolems beteeen Hindus and Muslim in what is now India, many Indians seem to have the same problem with this new history.

Sub-continent my land? pleeeeze - we are still stuck in Kashmir, let alone sub-continent.
 
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Why is it not Nehru the object of your hate?? How is it that all blame for Hindu Muslim problems are deposited in Pakistan and not in India?

Most Pakistanis have a difficult time understanding this new history that Indian Hindus insist is the only history and judging by the non-stop probolems beteeen Hindus and Muslim in what is now India, many Indians seem to have the same problem with this new history.

Sub-continent my land? pleeeeze - we are still stuck in Kashmir, let alone sub-continent.

Did Nehru demand a separate country? No... Jinnah did.

One more thing, you are quoting me out of context... I said that the partition deepened the rift between Hindus and Muslims... I never said the partition is solely to blame.

Further, I didn't get your new-history comment; can you please elaborate?

As far as Kashmir is concerned, the only solution I see is converting the LoC into IB.
 
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More Handiwork of the evil Muslim: Just be grateful the American is not around not just suggest that your govt and secret service is involved but that something with your gene pool and confession has something to do with this "proclivty"


Indian army official arrested over bomb blasts
Gulfnews: Indian army official arrested over bomb blasts

11/05/2008 07:19 PM | Agencies

New Delhi: Indian police arrested an army officer Wednesday in relation to a bomb blast in two Indian towns that killed five people and were blamed on a Hindu militant group, a government lawyer said.

The anti-terrorism squad in Mumbai questioned lieutenant-colonel Srikant Purohit for days before arresting him.

“He was arrested this morning and is being produced in court," said Ajay Misar, a government lawyer acting in the case.

The officer is accused of helping Hindu militants with bomb-making and other logistics in the attack in the Muslim-dominated towns of Malegaon and Modasa in September.

Another retired soldier was also questioned in the case, which has embarrassed the army.

Three other people, all Hindus, had already been arrested in connection with the Sept. 29 attacks.
 
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I accept Pakistan's existence, but I cannot forget the fact that my land was partitioned because somebody wanted a Disneyland.

Oh, please spare us! What a void of knowledge when it comes to Jinnah's philosophy, his politics and his mindset. I dont understand why if you have nothing constructive to say you must sabotage a thread concerning our national father?

Firstly get your facts stright, Mr. Mohammed Ali Jinnah was described as an Ambassador for Hindu - Muslim Unity and a strong believer in United India by non other then Motilal Setalvad "Former Advocate General of Bombay"
Source: Mohammed Ali Jinnah, an ambassador of unity, His speeches and writings 1912-1917, with a biographical appreciation by Sarojini Naidu, Publishers (Ganesh & Company), Madrass.

And just in case you don’t know who the author is allow me to assist, she was the first woman governor of a Indian Province, so it wasn’t a "quack" Pakistanis could have paid to utter sweet poetry about our beloved Quaid.

Jinnah's politics were shaped by his fascination with the liberalism movement initiated in England by Lord Morley, later on his views and future in politics was perhaps affected for the better by the historical parsee liberal, Dadabahi Naoroji (The first Indian to be elected in Parliament for Finsbury).

Many people have tainted the history of Jinnah and the movement for partition and I just want to emphasise the word "partition", you see until the 1857 when the Indian mutiny broke out, all was well between Muslims and Hindu's.

But the mutiny set forth a chain of events that would eventually lead to the partition of united Indian, the event brought fear into the hearts of the minority Muslims, the wounds of old began to seep once more. You see following on from the mutiny, Prince Albert (Prince Consort) of Great Britain wrote a letter to the prince of Prussia and in this letter he clearly states:

Among the many intermingled races in India are some 50 million-odd minority Muslims, who with the decline of the mogul empire had lost pride, property and power especially in the Hindu dominated areas. Where they lived in degradation and misery, excluded from all but the most humble of posts in British Administration.

Source: Sir William Hunter, The Indian Mussalmans & Richard Symmons, The Making of Pakistan 1950 Pg 26.

The tragic circumstances of the Muslims at last bred the leader they needed, his name of Khan Bahadur Dr. Syed Ahmed Khan, the first Muslim in India who dared speak of partition; he was the first to realise that mutual absorption being impossible, the Hindu's and Muslims must part.

In all honesty he was the Father of all that was to happen in shaping Mohammed Ali Jinnah's mindset for partition and the Pakistani dream.

Now whilst I love to talk history, I will recommend you read some independent books and papaers to further clarify your clouded understanding of History, the Pakistani movement and especially on Mohammed Ali Jinnah.


  • Jinnah, Creator of Pakistan Book by Hector Bolitho; 1954.

Independent Papers on Jinnah the man:

  1. Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah's Legacy to Pakistan. A lecture by Stanley Wolpert, Professor of History, University of California, Los Angeles.

  • Jinnah, Ambassador of Hindu-Muslim Unity, Ian Bryant Wells, 2002.

Regards,
 
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It is quite natural for there to be a void of Knowledge with regards to Mr Jinnah.Little is known of him internationally as against Gandhi where ppl can make unbiased opinions based on inputs availabe from outside India.

Anyway, the aim is not to stoke another feud. My opinion on the partition is that in Hindsight it was good that the partition did take place then for if it hadn't, the sub continent would possibly not have held together. The boundaries that have been created have served as retaining walls which have held the Sub Continent together.

It has also had a salutary effect on the Muslims who chose to stay behind in India. I do not want to go into he endless debate of did they do right or wrong . There are after all strong views when they compare themselves with the Mojahirs in Pak.

The only thing wrong abt the partition I see is the hurried & sometimes thoughtless manner it went about which to my mind is the root cause of Indo Pak probs.
 
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The East Bengal Muslims were the principal proponents of partition and the Two Nation Theory as they suffered after the cancellation of the partition of Bengal (1905-1911) and was returned to Hindu aristocratic dominance.
 
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RescueRanger:

I clearly stated in my first post that Jinnah was secularist; he also was for Hindu-Muslim unity.

But, if he was, why abet in the partition?

All Jinnah wanted was to not play second fiddle; he may have had fears of a "Hindu domination" that in my view were both ill-founded and non-popular.

Hence, he wanted his own state.



thirdeye:

Sir, frankly, I disagree. People were living very peacefully; only when the partition was announced, did things go downhill.



Munshi:

Heard of this name: A. K. Fazlul Huq



Muse:

What exactly are you saying? Have I disagreed that there are no communal problems in India or whacks do not exist in Hinduism?
 
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RescueRanger:

I clearly stated in my first post that Jinnah was secularist; he also was for Hindu-Muslim unity.

But, if he was, why abet in the partition?

All Jinnah wanted was to not play second fiddle; he may have had fears of a "Hindu domination" that in my view were both ill-founded and non-popular.

Hence, he wanted his own state.
That is in fact the skewed and distorted vision of Jinnah that RR suggested you educate yourself beyond. Jinnah was aware of his failing health, and that he would not last long, and he could have at that point given up on the cause of Pakistan - that he did not only indicates that his belief in the ideals and reasons behind Pakistan was altruistic.

I would in fact argue that even if the fears of 'Hindu Domination' were 'ill founded', the choice of making the case for a nation called Pakistan was still the right of the peoples who would be included in that nation. If the contemporary Indian Republic could not bear to stay united under the British flag, then why shouldn't other peoples inhabiting South Asia also not seek their own destiny in a new nation?

Sir, frankly, I disagree. People were living very peacefully; only when the partition was announced, did things go downhill.
And that is a failure of the people, and certain rabid groups and individuals, Hindu, Sikh and Muslim.

That this took place in an atmosphere where, especially in Pakistan, there was limited government and government resources and infrastructure to contain the violence only exacerbate the issue - so in that sense TE is correct, the 'haphazard manner' of the partition of the colony did contribute to the violence and hostility.
 
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The East Bengal Muslims were the principal proponents of partition and the Two Nation Theory as they suffered after the cancellation of the partition of Bengal (1905-1911) and was returned to Hindu aristocratic dominance.


Though I do not have sufficient inputs to comment on this, it does not seem likley. In any case it is of no relevance who the principal proponents were, the fact that the partition is done & over with is enough.

Vish,
You appear to be young man, it is natural to feel the way you do. Sons & brothers cannot live off the same family house & kitchen forever. When families grow sometimes seperation is better to ensure harmony & family ties. Unfortunately the haphazard manner of seperation is the bane in our case. Not that there is a soloution/ manner to undo or rectify it now. The ans is to accept & move on.

Brothers rarely have probs left to themselves, it is only when ladies ( wives) come into the frame do things start to slip. In our case , even at the risk of starting a feud, I'd like to compare our respective religions with our wives, we must love, respect & cherish them but keep them in the right place & perspective ( without chauvanisitc insinuations).

My view is that the God we pray to,the food we eat, the clothes we wear,the upbringing we give our children & the lifestyle we keep are very personal issues. We can neither be judgemental on others on these nor can we impose our styles on others.
 
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Vish

Most Pakistanis have a difficult time understanding this new history that Indian Hindus insist is the only history and judging by the non-stop probolems beteeen Hindus and Muslim in what is now India, many Indians seem to have the same problem with this new history.


The problem is Muse majority hindu's still feel the muslims of india have not assimilated to the India society. Clearly in India especially large cities you will see sections were majority muslims live and where hindu's live. Same as old American where train track partitioned between black and whites, and that exits still today.

The mingling of thought that goes on the community creates a form of silence anger for each other, that tends to erupt at given time. The same senario happens in America between the black and white. Mind you that there is difference of American eruption and Indian (it is more frequent). But my main point is there is this silence anger.

The definition of this silence anger are lot, when one does not say/hear the right things or jestures. When one show difference of opinion that is not even bearly close to yours. When one cultures/religious belief are two worlds apart.

And above all i feel that Indian politicians have used these for there own benefits at a given time, just like the American politician do. I do not know if i have made any sense, but this is how i am perceiving that seculiar society has become, not even in India, but in American also.
 
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In any case it is of no relevance who the principal proponents were, the fact that the partition is done & over with is enough.

I wish all Indians thought the same way. For many partition is not the end of the story and some seek a reversal and are actively working to that end.
 
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I wish all Indians thought the same way. For many partition is not the end of the story and some seek a reversal and are actively working to that end.

I would have liked to belong to an India that extended from the Hindukush to Burma but I am happy with what I have simply coz it is enough for my requirements.. there can be no end to my greed.

Gone are the days when international boundaries can be re drawn by force or coercion.
 
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Come on guys, its 2008!
forget the past, eye the future, its very terrieble to see, differences of thoughts & opinions, still being discussed.
what we will get from all this?
its over , we already discussed all this 60 years, does we need more 60 years to disscuss all that!:hitwall:
lets try to come close, and fight the common problums, like all the world is doing now!;)
 
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