The Russians refused to give India the technology of the guidance system

[Janmejay]

What should be the reply, As the credit of poster, that is level of reply.

moreover I m serious about indegenious development, and private companies role.

The reality is that the GSLV we are going to test in few months is the result of extreme hardwork and r$d of 20 years....

 

[ptltejas]

The reality is that the GSLV we are going to test in few months is the result of extreme hardwork and r$d of 20 years....

do u want to say each and every tech taking that much time. I think it would be necessary to ask some techno intel about time of making guidance system.

 

[Janmejay]

@Developereo ,you are taking too much time,I just asked a simple question

do u want to say each and every tech taking that much time. I think it would be necessary to ask some techno intel about time of making guidance system.

nobody helps,nobody wants to share these complex technologies,read this article--
Cryogenics is not an easy technology to master. Cryogenic rocket engines use liquid hydrogen as the fuel and liquid oxygen as the oxidiser. Oxygen turns liquid at minus 185 degree centigrade, and Hydrogen at minus 256 degree centigrade. The materials used must withstand extreme cold. But, the other end of the engine must withstand extreme heat — over 2,000 degrees.

India had until now (from 2001 to 2007) launched five GSLV satellites into space, all of them powered by Russian cryogenic engines. Three of them were successful. Yet, it was because of the Russians that India embarked on developing its own cryogenic technology.

Under Mikhail Gorbachev, Glavkosmos, the Soviet Union space agency, had agreed to transfer cryogenic engines and technology to ISRO. But very few countries have access to cryogenics and those who do, guard it zealously. The US, Europe, Japan and China are averse to sharing. The Russians of course made an exception for India. India and the USSR said cryogenic technology was strictly for non military uses. They would only be used for communication and weather satellites.

The US did not believe them. In 1991, the Bush (senior) administration invoked the Missile Technology Control Regime, an association to stop proliferation of missiles that could be used for mass destruction, to impose sanctions on the Soviet and Indian space agencies. Soon after, the Soviet Union disintegrated and the a new government under Boris Yeltsin took control. Yeltsin’s government favoured the West. In 1993 Yeltsin arrived at a compromise after he met Bill Clinton (who had taken over from Bush in January 1993) in the US. Russia would not transfer the technology, but it would sell seven cryogenic engines to India.

India decided to fight back — by developing its own cryogenic technology. Over the last 17 years, Indian scientists, most of them at ISRO’s liquid propulsion centre in Thiruvananthapuram, worked on what was termed CUSP, cryogenic upper stage project. “Cryogenic technology is not just about the engine. Each stage is like a rocket by itself,” says an ISRO official.

 

[Developereo]

@Developereo ,you are taking too much time,I just asked a simple question

About Pakistan?

It's off-topic, so ...

 

[Janmejay]

About Pakistan?

It's off-topic, so ...

lol,now i get it why you are called a "Think tank"...
anyways read my post 18

 

[Developereo]

lol,now i get it why you are called a "Think tank"...
anyways read my post 18

What about post 18?
It's the official version. So what?
The Americans have a different version of what actually happened under the table.

 

[ptltejas]

@Developereo ,you are taking too much time,I just asked a simple question


nobody helps,nobody wants to share these complex technologies,read this article--
Cryogenics is not an easy technology to master. Cryogenic rocket engines use liquid hydrogen as the fuel and liquid oxygen as the oxidiser. Oxygen turns liquid at minus 185 degree centigrade, and Hydrogen at minus 256 degree centigrade. The materials used must withstand extreme cold. But, the other end of the engine must withstand extreme heat — over 2,000 degrees.

India had until now (from 2001 to 2007) launched five GSLV satellites into space, all of them powered by Russian cryogenic engines. Three of them were successful. Yet, it was because of the Russians that India embarked on developing its own cryogenic technology.

Under Mikhail Gorbachev, Glavkosmos, the Soviet Union space agency, had agreed to transfer cryogenic engines and technology to ISRO. But very few countries have access to cryogenics and those who do, guard it zealously. The US, Europe, Japan and China are averse to sharing. The Russians of course made an exception for India. India and the USSR said cryogenic technology was strictly for non military uses. They would only be used for communication and weather satellites.

The US did not believe them. In 1991, the Bush (senior) administration invoked the Missile Technology Control Regime, an association to stop proliferation of missiles that could be used for mass destruction, to impose sanctions on the Soviet and Indian space agencies. Soon after, the Soviet Union disintegrated and the a new government under Boris Yeltsin took control. Yeltsin’s government favoured the West. In 1993 Yeltsin arrived at a compromise after he met Bill Clinton (who had taken over from Bush in January 1993) in the US. Russia would not transfer the technology, but it would sell seven cryogenic engines to India.

India decided to fight back — by developing its own cryogenic technology. Over the last 17 years, Indian scientists, most of them at ISRO’s liquid propulsion centre in Thiruvananthapuram, worked on what was termed CUSP, cryogenic upper stage project. “Cryogenic technology is not just about the engine. Each stage is like a rocket by itself,” says an ISRO official.

Buddy I think I am not cleared by my post, let it be, again i just need to ask as in missiles there were no option of 300km+ we had done excellent, In case of the Russia and other countries denied to give such tech what shall be the remedy? Why GSLV to compare with Guidance System? we had no rocket available for reverse engineering what about to open whole Rus missile to know the guidance system?

 

[gslv mk3]

@Develepero

ISROs CE 7.5 produces more thrust than,the,Russian,ones,used on GsLV mk 1.
Hardly a copy.It wasthe same Americans tbat tried to create story about 'Surya ICBM'

 

[Janmejay]

What about post 18?
It's the official version. So what?
The Americans have a different version of what actually happened under the table.

Americans also said that there are weapons are mass destruction in Iraq...
They also said that pakistan will disintegrate by 2006 or it was 2010.....
They also said that India is too diverse to be one counry.....

@Develepero

ISROs CE 7.5 produces more thrust than,the,Russian,ones,used on GsLV mk 1.
Hardly a copy.It wasthe same Americans tbat tried to create story about 'Surya ICBM'

you missed e in develepereo

 

[gslv mk3]

And again,why couldnt India ask for rest ,1/5 th of technology (.god knows how one can say 4/5 of a technology ) to transfer undertable?

ISRO has been ground testing CE 7.5 for a decade.And the failure in first flight shows that it was a newly designed system,not an,analog of Russia's reliable CE.

 

[Developereo]

@Develepero

ISROs CE 7.5 produces more thrust than,the,Russian,ones,used on GsLV mk 1.
Hardly a copy.It wasthe same Americans tbat tried to create story about 'Surya ICBM'

I never denied that Indian scientists developed technologies on their own. I was refuting a claim (in another thread and in general) that Russia did not transfer (cryogenic) engine tech to India. Despite the official story, the Americans seem to have found otherwise.

Americans also said that there are weapons are mass destruction in Iraq...
They also said that pakistan will disintegrate by 2006 or it was 2010.....
They also said that India is too diverse to be one counry.....

Sure. We don't know who's telling the truth. All we have is two different versions of history.

However, given the fact that India had paid for that cryogenic technology transfer, and that India was, and has been, a good customer for the Russians, it stands to reason that the Russians would want to keep India happy, one way or another.

It doesn't prove that the Russians transferred technology, but it lends credence to the American version of events.

 

[Janmejay]

Buddy I think I am not cleared by my post, let it be, again i just need to ask as in missiles there were no option of 300km+ we had done excellent, In case of the Russia and other countries denied to give such tech what shall be the remedy? Why GSLV to compare with Guidance System? we had no rocket available for reverse engineering what about to open whole Rus missile to know the guidance system?

I am not able to understand what are you are tryimg to say?

 

[Developereo]

And again,why couldnt India ask for rest ,1/5 th of technology (.god knows how one can say 4/5 of a technology ) to transfer undertable?

Because the entire TOT was "illegal", in the sense that the Americans had strong armed the Russians into reneging on their contract with India.

Russia, it seems, found a compromise under the table.

ISRO has been ground testing CE 7.5 for a decade.And the failure in first flight shows that it was a newly designed system,not an,analog of Russia's reliable CE.

All it shows is that India did not have the full technology at the time. For whatever reason.

 

[Lostsoldier]

That remaining 1/5th of the sanctioned technology that didn't get transferred by the Russians.

rest was paint job we dnt need it
aww beg it from russia they may give u
as u r expertise in paint jobs and share it with chineese to
hail pakistan - china brotherhood

 

[SrNair]

NEW DELHI — A dispute with Russia over technology transfer for the Invar anti-tank missile has prompted India’s Bharat Dynamics Ltd. (BDL) to contact domestic companies to help develop the missile’s critical guidance electronics.

The Russians refused to give India the technology for the guidance system for the missile, which will be fired from India’s Russian-made T-90 tanks, despite agreeing to the transfer for licensed production of the missiles, according to a BDL official.

The Indian government approved an Army proposal in October 2012 to acquire 20,000 Invar missiles, but the contract had to wait until August because the government insisted on technology transfer.

The Russians agreed to grant a license for production of the missile and the transfer of technology in August, when a US $470 million contract was signed, the BDL official said.

State-owned BDL, which will manufacture the Invar missiles, has not been given the key technology for the missile’s laser beam-riding guidance system, the official said.

“Usually, the contract with the Russians, or for that matter the French Milan anti-tank guided missiles, includes transferring the production process, including the details like chemical composition and process for propellant and warhead,” the official said. “However, in the case of the Invar missile, no technology transfer has been given for the laser beam-riding guidance.”

But according to a diplomat at the Russian Embassy here, “The technology for the guidance system was not part of the agreement.”

BDL has decided to approach domestic industry to develop the critical guidance electronics for the Invar. Domestic private sector companies, including Larsen & Toubro, Tata Power SED and Godrej, will be asked to collaborate with BDL to develop the laser beam-riding guidance system.

India signed the contract to buy the Invar missiles for the T-90 because the Army said there was a critical missile shortage, an Indian Ministry of Defence source said.

The Invar has a range of five kilometers and a tandem warhead that penetrates a tank’s armor up to 35 inches before detonating.

Fired from the 125mm gun of the T-90 tank, the missile is guided along a laser beam that can be controlled by the tank gunner. BDL has been manufacturing the Invar under technical collaboration with Russia’s Rosoboronexport, but it wants the technology for the laser guidance.

India fast-tracked the purchase of ammunition, including the Invar, after former Army Chief Gen. V.K. Singh warned the MoD in 2011 of a critical shortage of ammunition.

India placed its first order for 310 T-90s in 2001, and thereafter began licensed production of the tanks at the state-owned Heavy Vehicles Factory.

http://www.defensenews.com/article/...le-Woes?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

Even if Russia dont give us guidance system.We must appreciate Russians.They give us a challenge
,we must take that, develop our own system.Russians cant give us technology for longer range missile,so we can develop it.This decision will help Indian for long term.