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The Russia-China-Pakistan Axis | Implications

IFS AND BUTS......are the problems over here....The link tell us the history how Russia was always desperate for warm waters......Cold war was never over....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...2de07a-2cc9-11e6-a949-82110a957074_story.html

What was the Cold war about ?

Soviet domination of Eastern Europe
Democracy/Capitalism vs Communism

Both of them have been settled.

Russians do not have the muscle to occupy Ukraine. You need 400,000-500,000 combat troops to sweep into Ukraine.
Forget about Poland, Hungary, Czech, Slovakia. Baltics is one possible flash point.

Putin is diverting attention from fall in oil prices. It won't last too long.

All this hoopla about Russia-Pakistan friendship is a diversion from the damage that a limited India-USA strategic partnership can do to Pakistan's standing with respect to India.
 
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Russians have always been misunderstood by Pakistanis because of their love affair with the Americans . Had General Yahya Khan not antagonized the Soviets in 1971 by becoming conduit to USA -China friendship then may be Soviets wouldnt have entered into Defense Pact with India which resulted in breaking up of Pakistan.

In future I would like Pakistan to have more open and cordial relations with Russians . They should first of all make sure that there is no support for any Chechan or Caucasian terrorist group in Pakistan in same way as there should be no support to anti China East Turkestan Movement within our borders. Secondly , Pakistan should offer Russians investment opportunities which can arise their genuine interest in Pakistan in same way as we have done to China by offering them our Gwadar port and entering into CPEC. May be Russians and Chinese can become partners in CPEC . Once Russian interest in Pakistan grows then their support will also be forth coming in case of any USA and Indian designs against Pakistan. I will not expect Russia to fight alongside Pakistanis against Indians because of their long term strategic as well as economic association with the Indians but at least they can put their weight against India and try to refrain them in any evil designs against Pakistan , if they consider Pakistan as useful to them . Now it is upto us to determine in what we can offer Russians to bring them on our side.

Russians and Pakistan can also come to an understanding viz a viz Afghanistan. Pakistan can use influence of Russians over Northern Alliance to have good relations with Pakistan and also try to gain support of both Russia and China for patch up between Afghan waring factions as well as try to kick USA out of Afghanistan . In any case friendship with Russia is a need of the day for us . We should remember that its Russia which stopped West from attacking Syria so there is no harm in building trust and developing a strategic relationship with Russia .

Already Pakistan is member of SCO so we now need to strengthen our presence in this forum into meaningful way . I am also foreseeing Turkey's tilt towards Russia in future , specially after getting bitten by the West during recent failed coup.
Why not to develop ECO platform which includes Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, Afghanistan and Central Asian countries and integrate it with SCO . If Pakistan can have a strong backing of Russia / China along with Central Asian countries as well as Iran and Turkey then USA and Indian attitude towards Pakistan will also be bound to change.

There is however one thing I need to add................all this is only possible if we have a Government which is only sincere to the country and not to themselves ...............and we cannot expect above mentioned strategies by politicians like Nawaz and company whose interests lies with our enemies !
 
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No use copy pasting several articles and news items which clearly establish cozying up of relations with Russia and Pakistan and the already cemented bond between China and Pakistan. What I'd like the members to indulge in, is a discussion which involves implications:

a) for each of the three countries which are part of the axis - of being part of such an axis/alliance;

b) for US;

c) for India;

d) and the potential of Iran or potential of Turkey, becoming part of this axis.
Russia is not dependable. Russia don't spare it's closest allies. Russia milks Indian for money. Jokes around with Iranian on SAMs till west offer Russia with some deal, than vote to put UN sanction on Iran.

Pakistan, Iran and Turkey should make a axis...vast continuous land, rich in resources and manpower.
Not gonna happen. Unless Iran gives up it's sectarian wars and ambitions in Mid-east, it's very unlikely.
 
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Pakistan Russia China alliance will be against US if there will be any, this alliance will not interested in India because once US is on its knees then India will be a joke for China and Pakistan and we dont need Russia to pin India down but we (China & Pakistan) need Russia to pull US legs and once that happen we can let go Russia out of Indian ocean game but if Russia chooses to be part of pinning India game then we will welcome.
Pakistan and China Alliance must include Saudi Arab, Iran and Turkey and this alliance must have one agenda and that is US out of the region and once that happened India will be the next target.
we need to fry big fish first, smaller ones eventually fall down.
All we need a strong backbone with strong economy.
 
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What can pakistan offer to Russia.
pakistan became pawn in China's string of pearls because both had same aim- to contain India's growth.
What Russia would gain by aligning with pakistan...against India..

Not everything is based on "offer". Besides, india is spending more on US arms and fallen into US arms to encircle Russia. india is supplying ISIS with arms. Russia can not just ignore indian deceptive double speak. NSG saga shown it.
 
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Russia is not dependable. Russia don't spare it's closest allies. Russia milks Indian for money. Jokes around with Iranian on SAMs till west offer Russia with some deal, than vote to put UN sanction on Iran.


Not gonna happen. Unless Iran gives up it's sectarian wars and ambitions in Mid-east, it's very unlikely.

Russia
Not everything is based on "offer". Besides, india is spending more on US arms and fallen into US arms to encircle Russia. india is supplying ISIS with arms. Russia can not just ignore indian deceptive double speak. NSG saga shown it.

Russians need money. If Pakistanis cannot fill the gap India leaves they are not switching sides
 
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Russia would like to use India's reach (supposedly) in US to stress on points of it's interest.
China would continue selling military hardwares to pakistan...but soon India will play the same game via Vietnam to China...and pakistan may loose the patronage of China too , unless pakistan stands on it's 2 feet.
As I see in the crystal ball.

Wake up....Its morning, now. Forget about Russia and China after signing logistics agreement with US....Russia is open for us now.....

The journey has begun....Russian Army to hold first mountain drills with Pakistan in 2016...

http://tass.ru/en/defense/851484
 
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The driving force behind Pakistan's foreign policy is to avoid getting close to India. I am not saying it is right or wrong.
I am stating the facts.
You are COMPLETELY wrong my friend. The foreign policy is not that we AVOID and stay away from India. That really do not makes sense/ You could have said that it is keep Indian away from OTHERS, that too would have been wrong but would have made some sense. What will avoiding India deliver for us? This is not the goal nor the intention. Plus it is not us who have refused talks on countless occasions for one excuse or another!

Access to warm waters for what ?? The cold war is over. Wake up !!!

Russians do not have the money to operate naval bases
Plus the warm waters were not ONLY for naval bases. Please. At least do some research about what you are talking. You were provided with a source/link and you "claim" it is out dated! You were provided with another one and you simply chose to ignore it. I am starting to think that the intention is just to troll, beat about the bush, even if it means talking gibberish.
 
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No use copy pasting several articles and news items which clearly establish cozying up of relations with Russia and Pakistan and the already cemented bond between China and Pakistan. What I'd like the members to indulge in, is a discussion which involves implications:

a) for each of the three countries which are part of the axis - of being part of such an axis/alliance;

b) for US;

c) for India;

d) and the potential of Iran or potential of Turkey, becoming part of this axis.

OK dear, now that tangent seem to have gone for now, I guess we can talk about the topic more sensibly!

There is no doubt that the geopolitical alliances in the region are shifting. We have had our differences with the Soviets and that have affected our relations with Russian badly till now. However with new developments in the region it seems that Russia China and Pakistan are all set to come closer than before. Stating that we will form some kind of alliance against US or India is farfetched and not based on reality. Secondly we do not have to form an alliance “against” anyone. A mutual cooperation agreement will be huge for all parties involved, especially for Pakistan because we will be the weakest of the three. Also note that this will not be limited to these three countries alone and others will be joining in.

Russians are cozying up with Pakistan. There is a serious lack of intent and drive to take advantage of this situation and get close to Russia from our side but that is all still happening (though not at a pace at which I would like or on which it could happen). India growing close to US I also effecting the Russian judgement. However please note that they are still tied up in multi billion projects with India and their friendship is a long and trusted one. It won’t be changing overnight however things are and will gradually move in that direction. As the US influence in India increase this will all happen.

As for the implication, they are huge. HOWEVER, again, note that this is all not going to happen overnight. In fact, it will need some serious commitment and intention on part to make it happen. Otherwise, we may lose this opportunity as well.

About implications, well they are huge, especially for us. Also if anyone thinks here that Pakistan have nothing to offer in return to any such alliance, I am sorry but they are just fools. Living in delusions. There is a lot that Pakistan offers but have you ever seen anything good coming from debating with a fool? So why bother now? So “matti pao”

For US, it won’t be that huge of a problem. They are without doubt an excellent administration. They think way ahead of time and have surely calculated the pros and cons of any such development. Surely there are not many cons for them. They are losing interest in the area. Only think that bothers them is China and too is not a direct confrontation for now.

For India, well NO, India won’t lose its importance. They are on the right track of development and will continue to be a major player in the area however that importance will be shared and it won’t be like becoming the lone wolf of the region!

For Turkey joining, considering all indicators as of now, YES, there is a very good chance of Turkey joining hands in any such cooperation. In fact, Turkey won’t be the only one and many others are likely to follow..

All said, what I cannot stress enough on is that an alliance is not necessarily AGAINST anyone. Mutual cooperation, preservation of mutual interests is the way to go forward and that is what we are looking at. It will be for the good of everyone.

@PaklovesTurkiye
 
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You are COMPLETELY wrong my friend. The foreign policy is not that we AVOID and stay away from India. That really do not makes sense/ You could have said that it is keep Indian away from OTHERS, that too would have been wrong but would have made some sense. What will avoiding India deliver for us? This is not the goal nor the intention. Plus it is not us who have refused talks on countless occasions for one excuse or another!


Plus the warm waters were not ONLY for naval bases. Please. At least do some research about what you are talking. You were provided with a source/link and you "claim" it is out dated! You were provided with another one and you simply chose to ignore it. I am starting to think that the intention is just to troll, beat about the bush, even if it means talking gibberish.

your establishment does not want anything to do with India - SEATO, CENTO, dalliance with Gulf Arabs, CPEC, Taliban, dalliance with Uncle Sam. Of course with the exception of Taliban there was pot of money available in all of these ventures.

Right now Russia does not need a warm water port, They could use one in a military situation. You make it sound like Pakistan will give access to Gwadar to Russia in the event of nuclear confrontation with Uncle Sam. That would be extremely stupid on the part of Pakistan.
 
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No use copy pasting several articles and news items which clearly establish cozying up of relations with Russia and Pakistan and the already cemented bond between China and Pakistan. What I'd like the members to indulge in, is a discussion which involves implications:

a) for each of the three countries which are part of the axis - of being part of such an axis/alliance;

b) for US;

c) for India;

d) and the potential of Iran or potential of Turkey, becoming part of this axis.
In my humble opinion we should convince oil producing countries to increase oil prices to restore power balance in the world(I know many will call me names for this humble opinion :) ).
Russia should also be offered with a port on our coastal line. And Russia should also be a part of CPEC, to decrease the cost, increase the safety and viability of the project.
Thirdly, India may also be offered a similar project like CPEC to Afghanistan. We dont need to counter anybody. By teaming up we can earn more rather than fighting each other.
 
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any relation in international politics is dependent on mutual interests. If mutual interests outweigh mutual differences, we can have a working relationship. And that can work on case to case basis, over short term asl well. But for a long term strategic relationship to develop, it need a lot more convergence - economic, defense and a shared goal.

At the height of cold war too, US and USSR did collaborate on many things related to space research. But they never converged on strategic viewpoints. Same is Russia and pakistan. collaboration will increase, aided by shared interests with China. But between the two, there are lot many differences in ideologies, worldview and a baggage of history.

And it is difficult to have good friendship with both Pakistan and India at once, for any country.
 
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your establishment does not want anything to do with India - SEATO, CENTO, dalliance with Gulf Arabs, CPEC, Taliban, dalliance with Uncle Sam. Of course with the exception of Taliban there was pot of money available in all of these ventures.

Right now Russia does not need a warm water port, They could use one in a military situation. You make it sound like Pakistan will give access to Gwadar to Russia in the event of nuclear confrontation with Uncle Sam. That would be extremely stupid on the part of Pakistan.
I am not trying to make it sound like anything that it is not. Neither am i talking confrontations and wars! In fact, do you really think that alliances are meant ONLY for wars? I mean, you gov. states otherwise. Alliances are for mutual interests and benefits and are not necessarily "against" any one like you are trying to imply here by first talking about some non existent anti-India agenda and not a nuclear war between India and Pakistan.

Anyway, i wont debate on this useless topic any further as the OP asks clearly that this is to share you views about implications of such an alliance. Things are happening and are there for EVERYONE to see unless someone have decided to play blind. In that case nothing can be done anyway!
 
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