The Reasons Behind the Creation of the KSA and BD are the Same

[Michael Corleone]

What language are you using? Who are you to decide what should have been done 70 years ago? You should have born hundred years ago and suggested what you are suggesting here. I am talking here about the history of politics of Pakistan how Bengalis were deprived in united Pakistan and you are here talking what?

Why Iskendar is responsible for Mir Zafar's deeds 200 years ago? It is another story. They were two different personalities. How about then Mirza Ghulam Hafiz and Mirza Fakhrul?

is he not the descendent of the traitor? why are you justifying his attempts to create division in pakistan?

The entire command structure of the BD Army, modelled after the Pak Army by its ex members, was destroyed to ensure that BD never moves on!!! BD officers were killed like dogs and their family members were raped, killed and burnt (Hindutva style) to ensure the absolute subjugation under India! And, that too on a permanent basis. Every BD Muslim knows there's no emancipation for them...

All the good jobs and businesses in BD are under the Indians and their stooges! It is the Ilahi Adalet...


Don't worry!!! History repeats itself by HIS PERMISSION!!! Why do you think the Turkish drones are destroying these traitors, armed and fed with Haram, left and right in the fronts in Libya, Irak, Syria etc.? It is HE WHO took it away at the first place, and it is HE WHO will give it back to the same folks....

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

And so was the creation of turkey... ataturk hated shariah led country that was used to justify expansionism that led to ottoman downfall.
What are you doing in a kufr country you arrogant prick?

Serving the needs of "Mushrikin" Americans apparently

 

[Michael Corleone]

Serving the needs of "Mushrikin" Americans apparently

hate hypocrites like these...
and his idol abdul hamid was just an incompetent **** who did little to help the cause of the empire. an utter shame...

 

[Rana4pak]

I did not promote any religious extremism. Show me?

Look at ur profile.see ur dual face in mirror.you always talk about in 3.4.5 bc Buddhist were this that whatever

 

[Buddhistforlife]

Look at ur profile.see ur dual face in mirror.you always talk about in 3.4.5 bc Buddhist were this that whatever

WTF. I mentioned 345 BC when I elaborated Buddhist history in that thread. That makes me extremist? Hahahah.

 

[Rana4pak]

WTF. I mentioned 345 BC when I elaborated Buddhist history in that thread. That makes me extremist? Hahahah.

Now step by step u r revealing ur ugly face have patience killer of rohingya.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Look at ur profile.see ur dual face in mirror.you always talk about in 3.4.5 bc Buddhist were this that whatever

Stay on topic and please ignore the trolls.

That's besides the point bro, ask yourself, how would you feel or what would you do if other men whom you consider equals relegate you to the side? This happened in Rome, America, England... The difference with them is they learned from history, we haven't!

Great posts brother. You are discussing this from a philosophical perspective.

Ottomans rules over various groups of people, not only Arabs but even religious minorities like Christians, Jews, and Shias. They did so for about 600 years.

It was nationalism pushed by Europeans which ignited the flames of independence among Ottoman citizens. The propaganda was being fed for a long time, the Ottomans managed as best they could and even committed to Tanzimat reforms to grant even more autonomy for different groups.

It was all futile though, because as we know today, the propaganda from the West is so strong and powerful. They can turn hero into villain, and villian into hero. They are masters at narrarive building.

As for Pakistan, there were societal factors and racial factors for 1971. Colorism created by the British, still very much afflicts the subcontinent, even today. The sense of inferiority of Bengalis towards West Pakistanis was based on misplaced and lingering British ideals of beauty and racial superiority. Remember that Bengal was under the foot of the British for the longest time, compares to under regions of the former Mughal realm.

The same color and race inferiority complex still affects India today in relation to Pakistan as well.

Then there was the history that West Pakistan faced many massacres and had an unresolved Kashmir dispute with India, whereas East Pakistan did not have the same experiences. Leaders like Mujib felt that Kashmir was not worth it and should be given to India, that was unacceptable to West Pakistan, for whom Kashmiris are ethnic cousins.

West Pakistan was moving away from India, whereas East Pakistan was very much part of the Indian subcontinent, philosophy, linguistically, and culturally. There were different outlooks on where Pakistan should go in the future.

In short, East Pakistan was a playground of Hindu propaganda and infiltrated with Indian agents, whereas West Pakistan was mostly immune to those same forces.

KSA was more like a military coup by a religious sect/tribe over former Ottoman lands, funded and supported by the British. This is why Arabia became known as 'Saudi' Arabia.

 

[H. Dawary]

Great posts brother. You are discussing this from a philosophical perspective.

That's what it comes down to brother, we have to be kind an compassionate towards our fellow man whether we are strong or we are weak, that is the real test. If we change or oppress other simply because we are strong, but then make a 180 when we are weak is that not such a despicable and hypocritical attitude? We have to be like the Prophet (SAW), kind when he was weak, and kind when he was strong.

Ottomans rules over various groups of people, not only Arabs but even religious minorities like Christians, Jews, and Shias. They did so for about 600 years.


It was nationalism pushed by Europeans which ignited the flames of independence among Ottoman citizens. The propaganda was being fed for a long time, the Ottomans managed as best they could and even committed to Tanzimat reforms to grant even more autonomy for different groups.

This brother! I am so glad you are wise to understand this.

It was all futile though, because as we know today, the propaganda from the West is so strong and powerful. They can turn hero into villain, and villian into hero. They are masters at narrarive building.

As for Pakistan, there were societal factors and racial factors for 1971. Colorism created by the British, still very much afflicts the subcontinent, even today. The sense of inferiority of Bengalis towards West Pakistanis was based on misplaced and lingering British ideals of beauty and racial superiority. Remember that Bengal was under the foot of the British for the longest time, compares to under regions of the former Mughal realm.

Fully Agree... Colorism or ethnic superiority must come to an end, this we can achieve with proper education in Islamic studies and histories, we have to show all the heroes, from the Sahabas, to Salahuddin, to Aurangzeb, Haider Ali up till the present time, and show future generations that this is Islamic history, not just the history of this ethnic group or that one, or this color or that color.

The same color and race inferiority complex still affects India today in relation to Pakistan as well.

Then there was the history that West Pakistan faced many massacres and had an unresolved Kashmir dispute with India, whereas East Pakistan did not have the same experiences. Leaders like Mujib felt that Kashmir was not worth it and should be given to India, that was unacceptable to West Pakistan, for whom Kashmiris are ethnic cousins.

West Pakistan was moving away from India, whereas East Pakistan was very much part of the Indian subcontinent, philosophy, linguistically, and culturally. There were different outlooks on where Pakistan should go in the future.

In short, East Pakistan was a playground of Hindu propaganda and infiltrated with Indian agents, whereas West Pakistan was mostly immune to those same forces.

KSA was more like a military coup by a religious sect/tribe over former Ottoman lands, funded and supported by the British. This is why Arabia became known as 'Saudi' Arabia.

I've studied way too much European history, as the schools I went to here in Canada were heavily focused on Greek and Roman histories, as well as the renaissance so my focus was heavily directed towards that. As for the histories of our people, I've only studied the beginnings of Islam, the Sassanids, and Afghanistan. I don't know much about Bangladesh, India, or Pakistan except in relation to European history, would you refer some books, so I can familiarise myself more to understand the situation the detail?

 

[Falcon29]

BD ambassador is an ace diplomat

I believe the OP is comparing apples to oranges

@bluesky @DalalErMaNodi @Michael Corleone @Abu Shaleh Rumi @Ronin @BDforever @Atlas @UKBengali
My understanding is major motivator for creation of Bangladesh is operation searchlight.
Had operation searchlight never commenced, the idea of creation of Bangladesh as a separate nation would never occurred

Bangaldeshi members correct me if I am wrong



@ArabianEmpires&Caliphates @camelguy @Naram_Sin @Falcon29
Where as Arabs never faced a situation like Operation Searchlight where Ottoman military or civilian militia engaged in killings of Arab civilians.

My understanding is Arabs simply valued their independence, hence opted out of the Ottoman empire


Arab forum member, can you provide a little more context here

I'm really not well informed on Ottoman era and prefer not to look in past for something that isn't important. We can't change the past but we can work for a better future.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I don't know much about Bangladesh, India, or Pakistan except in relation to European history, would you refer some books, so I can familiarise myself more to understand the situation the detail?

@Hakikat ve Hikmet @Talwar e Pakistan @Mangus Ortus Novem @Safriz @Areesh @PakFactor @Desert Fox @DESERT FIGHTER @BHarwana @Ahmet Pasha

I can recommend you some books on Quaid e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah and Partition.

Z.A. Suleri (Ziauddin Ahmed Suleri) has authored many books on him.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z._A._Suleri


The Charismatic Leader: Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah and the Creation of Pakistan by Sikandar Hayat.

Constructing Pakistan
Foundational Texts and the Rise of Muslim National Identity 1857–1947
By Masood Ashraf Raja


Dr. Israr Ahmad has some lectures and pamphlets on the issue. You can find him on Youtube.

The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam
by Dr. Muhammad Iqbal (Allama Iqbal)

I have some other sources, but I will have to go through them and get back to you brother.

Oxford Press Pakistan and Dar Us Salam have many good English books.

Maybe some other brothers can recommend some. If they know anyone else, they can tag other members.

If you know Urdu, I am sure we can find you some better sources even.

I've studied way too much European history, as the schools I went to here in Canada were heavily focused on Greek and Roman histories, as well as the renaissance so my focus was heavily directed towards that.

Interestingly enough, I took the exact opposite route. I did not study Western history and actively avoided their perspective in my university days. Every popular book I read about Islamic history or Muslims was so filled with lies and propaganda that I grew disheartened.

I rejected Western narrative of history altogether and felt European history does not properly reflect the challenges Islamic societies face. So I began finding books around me written by Muslim authors or those from the Muslim world. I absorbed everything in this vein in my university library and ordered books from Pakistan. Then I moved onto Urdu sources eventually. The world opened up vastly. So many retired military men, Islamic scholars, and politicians have written great books on their experiences during Pakistan's most difficult times.

I wish I had more time to dedicate to this hobby, but work and familial obligations keep me in the present, lol.

Thanks for your post, I feel like I need to go on another spending spree in Pakistan.

As for the histories of our people, I've only studied the beginnings of Islam, the Sassanids, and Afghanistan.

If you have any books from the Afghan perspective (not Western,) please share with me. My Dari and Pukhto is not so strong that I can read heavy books yet, in sha Allah it will be.

I know there are many great books from early Islamic history by Arab authors and such, many have been translated. If you have any favorites, send their names to me.

 

[bluesky]

is he not the descendent of the traitor? why are you justifying his attempts to create division in pakistan?

better you learn from history. Iskander Mirza was not responsible for the division of Pakistan, Ayub/Yaha were. Mirza was ousted from power by them in 1958 and Pakistan broke into two in 1971.

I am not defending any body. I am talking history but you are talking emotion that has no base. Anyway, do you think Mir Zafar was the initiator of conspiracy with the British? Better learn from genuine sources and not from the gramophone drama written by D.L Roy. Everyone seems to be following his version.

 

[bluesky]

A good chunk of the Ottoman Sadrazams, Pashas, Sheyh-ul Islams etc. were Arabs...

The following Presidents and PMs of Pak (1947-1971) were from the East Pak (now BD):​

• Khaja Nizamuddin
• Mohammad Ali of Bogra
• Husein Shehid Suhrawardy
• Iskandar Mirza

The following Presidents and PMs of Pak (1947-1971) were from the West Pak:

• Muhammad Ali Jinnah (originally from Gujrat, India)
• Liaket Ali Khan (Punjabi)
• Gulam Muhammad (originally from Hyderabad, India)
• Gen Ayub Khan (Pashtun)
• Gen Yahya Khan (Kizilbash - a Persian speaking Turkic tribe)

It was the long-term economic disparity that caused discontent in the east. Now, give data on military personnel and civilian administrative staff in the govt of Pakistan instead of giving a few names of President and PM. Talk rational. Your west Pakistan side missed also a few other names that includes I.I Chundrigar.

 

[H. Dawary]

@Hakikat ve Hikmet @Talwar e Pakistan @Mangus Ortus Novem @Safriz @Areesh @PakFactor @Desert Fox @DESERT FIGHTER @BHarwana @Ahmet Pasha

I can recommend you some books on Quaid e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah and Partition.

Z.A. Suleri (Ziauddin Ahmed Suleri) has authored many books on him.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z._A._Suleri


The Charismatic Leader: Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah and the Creation of Pakistan by Sikandar Hayat.

Constructing Pakistan
Foundational Texts and the Rise of Muslim National Identity 1857–1947
By Masood Ashraf Raja


Dr. Israr Ahmad has some lectures and pamphlets on the issue. You can find him on Youtube.

The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam
by Dr. Muhammad Iqbal (Allama Iqbal)

I ordered a copy I will read this InshAllah.

Interestingly enough, I took the exact opposite route. I did not study Western history and actively avoided their perspective in my university days. Every popular book I read about Islamic history or Muslims was so filled with lies and propaganda that I grew disheartened.

I rejected Western narrative of history altogether and felt European history does not properly reflect the challenges Islamic societies face. So I began finding books around me written by Muslim authors or those from the Muslim world. I absorbed everything in this vein in my university library and ordered books from Pakistan. Then I moved onto Urdu sources eventually. The world opened up vastly. So many retired military men, Islamic scholars, and politicians have written great books on their experiences during Pakistan's most difficult times.

I do this with religion, I avoid western authors altogether, and read books of Ibn Taymiyyah, Al Ghazali, among others. In regards to politics and biographies, its very difficult to find books written extensively and in a scholarly manner by Non-westerners. I would love to read non-western related books as well, but the issue is that only certain topics and areas are covered whereas the western world has made great advances in this regard. However, scholars of history in my opinion are for the most part honest, as their duty is to discover the truth (unless its recent history), but I understand what you are trying to say.

I wish I had more time to dedicate to this hobby, but work and familial obligations keep me in the present, lol.

Thanks for your post, I feel like I need to go on another spending spree in Pakistan.

I am not married yet, but one of my friends that is makes the same complaint lol, he always says "Marriage is like a sweet prison" ... But you don't have to necessarily read books, just short PDF essays would also suffice.

If you have any books from the Afghan perspective (not Western,) please share with me. My Dari and Pukhto is not so strong that I can read heavy books yet, in sha Allah it will be.

Unfortunately no... The only books I have read were written by western historians, However they did cite their sources if that makes a difference... But if you are interested in improving your Dari/Farsi, I recommend reading the Shahnameh, although that is still a bit difficult, as for Pashto I reccomend reading the poems for Ahmad Shah and Khushal Khan. The only issue is that they used pure words, it would be much easier to learn Dari and Pashto from apps, and then reading those books and poems. I suppose how I learned Urdu was because of Bollywood movies when I was younger living in Pakistan, and then moving to Canada I continued watching it and that helped my Urdu to an extent, I can't speak it but I can understand to some level. Maybe you could try the same, watching shows, and movies.

 

[Michael Corleone]

better you learn from history. Iskander Mirza was not responsible for the division of Pakistan, Ayub/Yaha were. Mirza was ousted from power by them in 1958 and Pakistan broke into two in 1971.

I am not defending any body. I am talking history but you are talking emotion that has no base. Anyway, do you think Mir Zafar was the initiator of conspiracy with the British? Better learn from genuine sources and not from the gramophone drama written by D.L Roy. Everyone seems to be following his version.

I don’t know the drama you’re talking about, Please don’t try to put words in my mouth...
I read up on my history from verified source and if I have any doubts, I ask members who I know are to be knowledgeable
The dude was no saint, his policies in a democratic country set poor precedent... Suhrawardhy was a better leader in all respects

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Insha’Allah I’ll start a series on the Ottoman history at the PDF!! And, I’ll use only the Muslim sources on interesting topics related to our present conditions....

A man without the knowledge of history isn’t truly civilized.....