The Real War With India

[VCheng]

they were on ppp drugs (roti ,kapra,makan)

Please keep in mind that people desperate for necessities like roti, kapra aur makan can be easily manipulated into believing anything by anyone who promises them that.

 

[Contrarian]

I wonder one thing. Is high education really all that important for economic growth?

For all of 1950-75, Pakistan had a pretty decent economic growth rate, and certainly higher than India each year during that time. Even then, Pakistan had lower literacy rate compared to India.
And in absolute terms literacy rate then was abysmal for both India and Pakistan.

So how come they were managing pretty well ? Is literacy over rated in this context?

 

[SQ8]

I wonder one thing. Is high education really all that important for economic growth?

For all of 1950-75, Pakistan had a pretty decent economic growth rate, and certainly higher than India each year during that time. Even then, Pakistan had lower literacy rate compared to India.
And in absolute terms literacy rate then was abysmal for both India and Pakistan.

So how come they were managing pretty well ? Is literacy over rated in this context?

Based on wealth accumulation by a few elite. Economic growth was based on industrialization that was focused within an elite group..

 

[Contrarian]

Based on wealth accumulation by a few elite. Economic growth was based on industrialization that was focused within an elite group..

So what? Say it was within an elite group. They still put up industries that created jobs? And jobs provided money to the people down below.

 

[VCheng]

So what? Say it was within an elite group. They still put up industries that created jobs? And jobs provided money to the people down below.

Low value-added labor intensive industries that belong in the previous two centuries, not the 21st.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I wonder one thing. Is high education really all that important for economic growth?

For all of 1950-75, Pakistan had a pretty decent economic growth rate, and certainly higher than India each year during that time. Even then, Pakistan had lower literacy rate compared to India.
And in absolute terms literacy rate then was abysmal for both India and Pakistan.

So how come they were managing pretty well ? Is literacy over rated in this context?

Like has been stated this was due to a few elites and industrialization. However the world is shifting to service based job creation and here education is KEY, nay-ESSENTIAL! In the 21st century an nation that is not investing heavily in higher education is going to find itself slipping backwards all too quickly.

 

[Abingdonboy]

i am not in favour of education.even bill gates was drop out.
what you need is street smart paksistanis.they will carry the pak country to great things.

This is utter NONSENSE! How can a sensible person not be in favour of something as basic and fundamental as EDUCATION?? How did you learn English? How did you learn to read and write? How did you learn to add, subtract and multiply? There are but a few Bill Gates in the world and even they have benifitted from education up to a pointand anyways Bill Gates type people represent <0.0000001% of the population. What about everyone else? Should an entire education policy (or lack there of) be centred around such a pathetically small proportion of the population? What is the other 99.0000001% meant to do?

 

[Contrarian]

Low value-added labor intensive industries that belong in the previous two centuries, not the 21st.

You need education only if you want to enter into a knowledge economy. And believe me, it isnt as good as it sounds. It employs far less people that a country like Pakistan or India needs.

Example: India has chosen knowledge economy path - plain reason why this happened is because govt policies are archaic and have not been able to promote manufacturing like China has. Our government is obstructionist with license raj - for bribes.

While knowledge economy flourished because govt has no control over it, cannot regulate it, and because reasonable number of people are reasonably educated to sustain it. But it doesnt give employement like manufacturing and industries do. And that is a HUGE problem for India. It affects poverty reduction very very very slowly.

 

[VCheng]

You need education only if you want to enter into a knowledge economy. And believe me, it isnt as good as it sounds. It employs far less people that a country like Pakistan or India needs........

Good point, but even the low tech low grade products that Pakistan does produce are increasingly noncompetitive against more efficient manufacturing economies. What to do then?

 

[Abingdonboy]

You need education only if you want to enter into a knowledge economy. And believe me, it isnt as good as it sounds. It employs far less people that a country like Pakistan or India needs.

Example: India has chosen knowledge economy path - plain reason why this happened is because govt policies are archaic and have not been able to promote manufacturing like China has. Our government is obstructionist with license raj - for bribes.

While knowledge economy flourished because govt has no control over it, cannot regulate it, and because reasonable number of people are reasonably educated to sustain it. But it doesnt give employement like manufacturing and industries do. And that is a HUGE problem for India. It affects poverty reduction very very very slowly.

Poverty reduction requires a multi-pronged approach which India is taking. Employment or economic development alone isn't enough.

 

[MilSpec]

Good point, but even the low tech low grade products that Pakistan does produce are increasingly noncompetitive against more efficient manufacturing economies. What to do then?

One recommendation for all the countries in the region is to empower women with education. Alongside as a state directive women in these societies need to be helped, motivated and encouraged to work alongside men, irrespective of social and religious sentiments. This will add nearly twice the amount of earning members to economy. Subsequently families will earn more, resulting in better avenues of education for the children. When women in the family are equal partners in income, that will ensure transition of low income families into the middle class. A strong middle class drives growth in every possible sector, housing, retail, technology, infrastructure, education etc.

Empowering women will definitely help in setting up a chain reaction in lifting the economic spirits of the region. Empowering women has been a big challenge in the subcontinent, I think its time to shed all the religious and social nonsense and truly strengthen the fabric of society by giving women the same opportunities as she would get in the west (even more to make up for the wasted century)

 

[Contrarian]

Good point, but even the low tech low grade products that Pakistan does produce are increasingly noncompetitive against more efficient manufacturing economies. What to do then?

Efficient manufacturing doesnt need high education. All it requires is a little more technology to put in place. That can be done easily by few educated people. You dont require mass literacy to achieve efficient manufacturing economies. You need capital for that, and to a much much lesser extent human resources.

I hope you understand that i am being the devils advocate to understand something here myself!

Poverty reduction requires a multi-pronged approach which India is taking. Employment or economic development alone isn't enough.

India's multi-pronged approach looks good only on paper. India's poverty reduction has been ridiculously slow. And the main reason is the governments policies.

They try to keep regulations - excessive Nehruvian legislations that still govern majority of the manufacturing sector. That is why manufacturing has not picked up. And frankly unless you provide mass jobs through mass manufacturing, poverty reduction of the level we need will be a pipedream.

 

[shelly]

This is utter NONSENSE! How can a sensible person not be in favour of something as basic and fundamental as EDUCATION?? How did you learn English? How did you learn to read and write? How did you learn to add, subtract and multiply? There are but a few Bill Gates in the world and even they have benifitted from education up to a pointand anyways Bill Gates type people represent <0.0000001% of the population. What about everyone else? Should an entire education policy (or lack there of) be centred around such a pathetically small proportion of the population? What is the other 99.0000001% meant to do?

My friend ofr all the education, your basic math is wrong.

 

[VCheng]

Efficient manufacturing doesnt need high education. All it requires is a little more technology to put in place. That can be done easily by few educated people. You dont require mass literacy to achieve efficient manufacturing economies. You need capital for that, and to a much much lesser extent human resources..............

Efficient manufacturing is good, but efficient-that-pays manufacturing is even better. For example, China is very efficient at making iPhones, but gets only a few dollars worth of advantage while those who create and design get several hundred dollars per unit sold. And to be efficient, one needs infrastructure including power and stable governance. And capital.

Pakistan can move to value-added products, but basing it off domestic resources, and then gradually adding layers of manufacturing on top. This has has been done to some extent with exporting raw cotton to cotton yarn to fabrics to garments to fine designer clothing, but to reproduce this approach in other sectors will not be easy.

 

[Abhishek_]

why is it termed a war with india. both nations face similar problems, and we have a better chance to solving these if we collaborate. our relations are improving constantly, further P2P contact and economic interdependence can be the answer.