The Real Reason of Germany's defeat in the Second World War

[vostok]

Once again: the naval blockade had very serious impact on German economy.


Building navy takes too much time and resources, thats why he used asymmetrical warfare building 1000 submarines (!!!!).

Each submarine costs like 40 tanks at least. That means Hitler could build 2 times more tanks.


Destroying such a huge force without any difficulty? LOL you are funny. Ever heard about Kurland Kessel? Google it.


West did not want to start a war. Its not an easy thing u know. But eventually when they saw that Hitler is not stopping they started. On the other hand Stalin HELPED Hitler.

As I said, UK could easily make a separate peace with Hitler like Stalin did. And then USSR would fight alone against Germany + Japan.

Miracle of Dunkirk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk_evacuation
Hitler personaly ordered stopp the attack and allowed the British to evacuate their defeated army .
Why ? Hitler was not going to war with the West for real. And the West was not going to fight with him .
That's why most of the European countries have surrendered to Hitler without firing a shot. That's why the French army , which had been in power equal Germany at the time just gave up .
That is why the Western Front was opened only in 1944. Not 41, not 42, not 43 but in 1944, when it became clear that the Soviet Union will finish alone with Germany and Europe become Red.
Phoney War
Contemporaneously, the period had also been referred to as the Twilight War (by Winston Churchill), der Sitzkrieg[1] ("the sitting war": a play on blitzkrieg), the Bore War (a play on the Boer War), and drôle de guerre("strange/funny war" in French).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoney_War

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Miracle of Dunkirk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk_evacuation
Hitler personal ordered stopp the attack and allowed the British to evacuate their defeated army .
Why ? Hitler was not going to war with the West for real. And the West is not going to fight with him .
That's why most of the European countries have surrendered to Hitler without firing a shot. That's why the French army , which had been in power equal Germany at the time just gave up .
That is why the Western Front was opened only in 1944. Not 41, not 42, not 43 but in 1944, when it became clear that the Soviet Union will finish alone with Germany and Europe become Red.
Phoney War
Contemporaneously, the period had also been referred to as the Twilight War (by Winston Churchill), der Sitzkrieg[1] ("the sitting war": a play on blitzkrieg), the Bore War (a play on the Boer War), and drôle de guerre("strange/funny war" in French).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoney_War

Watch these two films - both have Ostalgia in them -
Das Leben Der Anderen
Goodbye Lenin

You will love them.

 

[vostok]

Watch these two films - both have Ostalgia in them -
Das Leben Der Anderen
Goodbye Lenin

You will love them.

If this is the movies about how Stalin eat for breakfast Christian children and drank their blood - I will not watch.
I've seen enough of them in my life. At school, I also was teached that Stalin - monster.
Only after 1991 the truth about the past began to clear.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

If this is the movies about how Stalin eat for breakfast Christian children and drank their blood - I will not watch.
I've seen enough of them in my life. At school, I also was teached that Stalin - monster. Only after 1991 the truth about the past began to clear.

Stalin was a butcher - true. But he was no cannibal. These movies don't even show Stalin.

 

[vostok]

Stalin was a butcher - true. But he was no cannibal. These movies don't even show Stalin.

And Goebbels was convinced that Stalin was guilty of all the deadly sins. Including eating Christian babies. In the West, many people still think the same.
You know what's the difference between us - I can know how people lived under Stalin from my own father and older relatives. And you can learn only from books and pamphlets issued by either his enemies or at the request of his enemies. And it means - that there is no more truth than in the testimony of mobsters in court.
I will watch movies, thank you.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

And Goebbels was convinced that Stalin was guilty of all the deadly sins. Including eating Christian babies. In the West, many people still think the same.
You know what's the difference between us - I can know how people lived under Stalin from my own father and older relatives. And you can learn only from books and pamphlets issued by either his enemies or at the request of his enemies. And it means - that there is no more truth than in the testimony of mobsters in court.
I will watch movies, thank you.

For True Stalinists, Stalin was an angel - no doubt. No offense intended.

 

[vostok]

For True Stalinists, Stalin was an angel - no doubt. No offense intended.

He was not an angel. He was the man who won the war against united Europe.
He was a man transformed the Soviet Union into a superpower. He was a man who built 8600 giant industrial enterprises. He was a man who was feared and hated by enemies and adored by friends. He was a father to every Soviet citizen - except traitors.
He began the decolonization of Africa and Asia, freeing people from colonialism.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Do you know who were Trotskyites ? These were the guys who were going to have a world revolution . And the war oin going to the last Russian soldier. Cleaning the army of these people do not obey the leadership of the country, and foreign sponsors of Trotsky - the primary task before the war. Of course , there were excesses - but it is the fault not of Stalin and his aides.
Stalin destroyed billion Russian people?
False. For 30 years, from 1923 to 1953 were executed and died in the camps 3.6 million. During the Revolution and the Civil War murdered and died from hunger and disease around 14 million. That is Lenin in 3 years has destroyed 14 million Russian - why is no one screaming that Lenin bloody maniac ?
Because Lenin worked with Western intelligence agencies . Through them he came to power.
Stalin did not cooperate with them. Stalin did not accept the dollar system of the post-war world. Stalin built a superpower . Stalin defeated Hitler , destroying years of work the west.
So about Stalin constantly compose fables .

I never said trotsky being a saint,stalin's purges crushed the red army and his orders caught USSR completely by surprise.Lenin was highly respected by stalin,who believed him his mentor.When germany attacked and stalin was shocked to see the initial losses he said to his commanders-''lenin left us a great legacy,we have fucked it up''-shows his attitude towards lenin.
Stalin's one great achievement was the rapid industrialization of five year plans-but with a little more finesse it could have been accomplished without displacing millions of russian peasants.Especially in ukraine his policies bought mass starvation and deaths.And then ofcourse there was the gulags.
Russia won because of the resilience of the russian people and her resources and strategic depth,not stalin.

 

[500]

Miracle of Dunkirk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk_evacuation
Hitler personaly ordered stopp the attack and allowed the British to evacuate their defeated army .
Why ?

For same reason that Stalin ordered to stop attack on Kurland Kessel.

Hitler was not going to war with the West for real. And the West was not going to fight with him .

Then why he ordered to bomb Britain?
Why he built 1000 submarines instead building 40,000 additional tanks?
Why 2/3 of German fighters were fighting against West instead fighting against USSR?

That's why most of the European countries have surrendered to Hitler without firing a shot.

For same reason that Baltic countries surrounded to USSR without firing a shot.

That's why the French army , which had been in power equal Germany at the time just gave up .

Germany lost about 50 K. I should remind u that In USSR Germans captured territory equal to 3 Frances, thats despite USSR had 20,000 tanks and 10,000 fighters - muich more than Germany and France combined.

That is why the Western Front was opened only in 1944.

West was fighting with Japan (u know its such country with population bigger than Germany), West was fighting in Africa and Italy, west was fighting in the sea with 1000 German submarines, West was leading bombing campaign that forced Germany to keep 2/3 its fighters against West, West was supplying USSR.

Read more history and less Putin's propaganda.

 

[vostok]

I never said trotsky being a saint,stalin's purges crushed the red army and his orders caught USSR completely by surprise.Lenin was highly respected by stalin,who believed him his mentor.When germany attacked and stalin was shocked to see the initial losses he said to his commanders-''lenin left us a great legacy,we have fucked it up''-shows his attitude towards lenin.
Stalin's one great achievement was the rapid industrialization of five year plans-but with a little more finesse it could have been accomplished without displacing millions of russian peasants.Especially in ukraine his policies bought mass starvation and deaths.And then ofcourse there was the gulags.
Russia won because of the resilience of the russian people and her resources and strategic depth,not stalin.

Russian soldiers really believed in Stalin and died with his name on their lips. The Russians fought to death in Stalingrad - because it was the city of Stalin.

 

[vostok]

For same reason that Stalin ordered to stop attack on Kurland Kessel.


Then why he ordered to bomb Britain?
Why he built 1000 submarines instead building 40,000 additional tanks?
Why 2/3 of German fighters were fighting against West instead fighting against USSR?


For same reason that Baltic countries surrounded to USSR without firing a shot.


Germany lost about 50 K. I should remind u that In USSR Germans captured territory equal to 3 Frances, thats despite USSR had 20,000 tanks and 10,000 fighters - muich more than Germany and France combined.


West was fighting with Japan (u know its such country with population bigger than Germany), West was fighting in Africa and Italy, west was fighting in the sea with 1000 German submarines, West was leading bombing campaign that forced Germany to keep 2/3 its fighters against West, West was supplying USSR.

Read more history and less Putin's propaganda.

what is "Kurland Kessel"? I had not even heard about it. But I bet there was not half the soldiers of the Reich, which Stalin had graciously decided not to kill - as Hitler did with half the British army during the Miracle of Dunkirk.
1000 subs? And how many were there in 1939? And how many subs you need to land on the British Isles? Because without infantry landing victory is impossible!
Britain and France had a treaty of friendship and non-aggression pact with Hitler. Stalin signed a contract last, when all his attemps to make an alliance with Britain and France ended unsuccessful.
What war in Africa? Do not make me laugh! There was not even a tenth of the German troops who fought in the Soviet Union.
Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia - Land of the Russian Empire. By the way, their entry into the USSR was recognized by all legal agreements under international law during the war and until the collapse of the Soviet Union.
USSR defeated Japan in 1939 - this wsa the only reason why Japan did not attack the Soviet Union in 1941, and not because they fought against the United States. In spite of this, the Soviet Union held in the Far East a few dozen divisions capable to defeat Japan, if it started the war.
Western assistance estimated no more than 10% of the materials and pieces of equipment of the USSR. It was very important but not critical.
Read normal books on history, not western or any campaign leaflets Goebbels.
Your people, and Israel exist only thanks to the Red Army and to Comrade Stalin. If not him - your grandparents would go to the soap for the Nazis.

 

[scorpionx]

1.Fighting too many enemies at the same time,grand strategic blunder.Especially declaring war on USA madness.
2.Hitler's imposition of will on commanders,especially no retreat orders.
3.Underestimation of the soviet juggernaut and willpower of the russian people.
4.Not switching to a full war economy till late 1943.
5.Crushing allied material superiority.
6.Hindered by lack of fuel.
7.Wasted most of its pre war naval funds on uselss battleships,rather than u-boats.
8.The t-34 tank.
9.Racial background made opposition fight with fanaticism.
10.Partisans.
11.Bad infrastructure of russia and the mud and russian winter.

Excellent summery which left almost nothing to add. Here are my points.

1.Underestimating Britain's aircraft production capability in 1940. The British had 700 fighters before battle of Britain but Luftwaffe were gravely mistaken by their ignorance of the British production of fighters at a rate of 470 per month which was almost double than the Germans.

2.A bad partner in crime took almost everything from the Fuhrer.According to Bismark Italy had a appetite of a jackal but only with a rotten teeth.

3.Ill planned attack on Russia with over stretched supply lines.German soldiers were deprived of winter clothing. War Machineries,vehicles were not suitable for freezing colds.

4. Hitler's failure to utilize the superior French fleet under the Vichy regime most of which were either sank by their commanders or lost in battle with the British.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

what is "Kurland Kessel"? I had not even heard about it. But I bet there was not half the soldiers of the Reich, which Stalin had graciously decided not to kill - as Hitler did with half the British army during the Miracle of Dunkirk.
1000 subs? And how many were there in 1939? And how many subs you need to land on the British Isles? Because without infantry landing victory is impossible!
Britain and France had a treaty of friendship and non-aggression pact with Hitler. Stalin signed a contract last, when all his attemps to make an alliance with Britain and France ended unsuccessful.
What war in Africa? Do not make me laugh! There was not even a tenth of the German troops who fought in the Soviet Union.
Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia - Land of the Russian Empire. By the way, their entry into the USSR was recognized by all legal agreements under international law during the war and until the collapse of the Soviet Union.
USSR defeated Japan in 1939 - this wsa the only reason why Japan did not attack the Soviet Union in 1941, and not because they fought against the United States. In spite of this, the Soviet Union held in the Far East a few dozen divisions capable to defeat Japan, if it started the war.
Western assistance estimated no more than 10% of the materials and pieces of equipment of the USSR. It was very important but not critical.
Read normal books on history, not western or any campaign leaflets Goebbels.
Your people, and Israel exist only thanks to the Red Army and to Comrade Stalin. If not him - your grandparents would go to the soap for the Nazis.

Goebbels propaganda ceased to exist in 1945. Red propaganda continued till 1991.

And the soap Jew story is a fabrication. Stalin care two hoots about Jews. The world did not care about them. One reason why they showed the middle finger to the world and grabbed what they could.

Kurland Kessel had about 20+German divisions that surrendered 2 days after Germany capitulated. So understand the importance? USSR did not defeat Japan, they only defeated a single lone Japanese infantry division(that too part of 6th Army) in Khalkin Gol. There was no campaign. Only a battle was won. Hitler did not really completely spare the men at Dunquerque. Rundstedt wanted to go ahead, Hitler stopped. Next day Hitler wanted to go ahead and Rundstedt stopped. In spite of that the 8th Panzer(Rommel) did 'recon in force'(that means all out war but unofficial) against the entrenched French. Remember that 40000 men were defending the perimeter. Supporting them was an armada as large as the British Navy. Their guns were used as Naval artillery. With the advance guard(only the tanks had moved in, the infantry had yet to catch up) the Germans lacked the strength to crush the British. Partly due to Rundstedt's opposition, partly due to the extended flanks of the German advance(it was like a narrow knife wedge from Liege to the Sea. To the North and South Allied troops threatened the flanks) and partly due to Hitler's admiration for the the British race and hope of coming to terms.

But then like we said, if you had defended the good things you did - like eradicated illiteracy etc, provided decent healthcare to impoverished Central Asia - I would have accepted them. But glorifying Stalin's rule is an insult to the entire humanity. More so than glorifying Hitler IMO. Glorify the Russian Space Research etc but don't speak about moral superiority. In terms of moral sup, the West was bad, but you were worse.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Russian soldiers really believed in Stalin and died with his name on their lips. The Russians fought to death in Stalingrad - because it was the city of Stalin.

BS. They defended because they were ordered to. Millions of Soviets surrendered, Enough to create whole Russian divisions that fought for the Nazis.

 

[vostok]

Goebbels propaganda ceased to exist in 1945. Red propaganda continued till 1991.

And the soap Jew story is a fabrication. Stalin care two hoots about Jews. The world did not care about them. One reason why they showed the middle finger to the world and grabbed what they could.

Kurland Kessel had about 20+German divisions that surrendered 2 days after Germany capitulated. So understand the importance? USSR did not defeat Japan, they only defeated a single lone Japanese infantry division(that too part of 6th Army) in Khalkin Gol. There was no campaign. Only a battle was won. Hitler did not really completely spare the men at Dunquerque. Rundstedt wanted to go ahead, Hitler stopped. Next day Hitler wanted to go ahead and Rundstedt stopped. In spite of that the 8th Panzer(Rommel) did 'recon in force'(that means all out war but unofficial) against the entrenched French. Remember that 40000 men were defending the perimeter. Supporting them was an armada as large as the British Navy. Their guns were used as Naval artillery. With the advance guard(only the tanks had moved in, the infantry had yet to catch up) the Germans lacked the strength to crush the British. Partly due to Rundstedt's opposition, partly due to the extended flanks of the German advance(it was like a narrow knife wedge from Liege to the Sea. To the North and South Allied troops threatened the flanks) and partly due to Hitler's admiration for the the British race and hope of coming to terms.

But then like we said, if you had defended the good things you did - like eradicated illiteracy etc, provided decent healthcare to impoverished Central Asia - I would have accepted them. But glorifying Stalin's rule is an insult to the entire humanity. More so than glorifying Hitler IMO. Glorify the Russian Space Research etc but don't speak about moral superiority. In terms of moral sup, the West was bad, but you were worse.

Some battles are more important then entire wars. Japan then realized she did not cope with the USSR. Promotion of Japan to the north and west after Hanhin-Gol was stopped. In spite of this the Soviet Union held in the Far East about 50 divisions on alert - enough tto repel the attack on the USSR. But these divisions were needed for the war against Hitler!
Kurland Kessel - So I do not understand - the division surrendered after the capitulation? So this is the meaning of capitulation!
About Dunkirk Muracle
Under these conditions , 26 May cabinet Churchill and the British Admiralty decided to withdraw its part of the British Isles . The military situation was such that at the time of the British retreat to Dunkirk on the approaches to it were already the German tanks . They came to Dunkirk two days ahead of the British, they were separated from the city center 16 km, and the British - 60 km . The Germans did not cost anything to enter the defenseless city and take a last haven from which could be held mass evacuation of British troops. But Hitler gave his famous " stop order ", which stopped any further advance . "We were speechless ," - recalled Guderian . And it was from that! At a time when there were just take one small town and decide the fate of those hostile factions , the head of Germany explicitly forbade it . It came to that General Halder began to challenge the decision of the Fuhrer and tried to explain to him the need to capture the last port on the coast. But Hitler was adamant : " The stormy debate over obtaining a definitive order of Hitler, to which he added that to ensure the implementation of its order, he will send a statement to the front of liaison officers "
So Hitler could destroy already defeated army before the evacuation. Before!
I can not understand the logic of such as you. You are realy from India?
If not Stalin - you would still have remained a colony of Britain.
Jews would be destroyed as a species. A large part of Europe would be the slaves of the Germans.
Russian soldiers - the liberator of Europe from Nazism and the world from colonialism.
Though - keep believing in Western fairy tales. West has done for you so much good!
And make it even more if you will believe all their lies!