The problem with Pakistani liberals

[muse]

LOL!!! If you think that abusing KSA & using foul words will restore peace in Pakistan than it's your logic, try harder to achieve it soon. As far as i am concerned my criminals are Pakistanis who are playing in hands of foreign powers, and i criticize both religious power house for making Pakistan playground for their struggle of influence. But you can't do this? can you?

What abuses and foul words? Pakistan is certainly in the hands of religious lunes inspired by Waha-bi ideology - can you condemn that?

 

[Sugarcane]

What abuses and foul words? Pakistan is certainly in the hands of religious lunes inspired by Waha-bi ideology - can you condemn that?

Yes i condemn that - I even question the authenticity of book of Hadiths, can you do that? I have been declared Khawarji, Murtad, Whabai, Shia & Hindu on multiple forums including PDF. are you?

Foreign powers will continue to play - they have their own objectives, it's our responsibility to put our house in order and protect it.

 

[SQ8]

What abuses and foul words? Pakistan is certainly in the hands of religious lunes inspired by Waha-bi ideology - can you condemn that?

Yet, it must be looked at how the origin of this ideology.. used a systematic approach to fix problems at home.
And why this has not been tried here.
Care Rehabilitation Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What bothers me most is.. that this has been successful in SA...means that they knew exactly what the problem was.. and how to cure it....

Yes i condemn that - I even question the authenticity of book of Hadiths, can you do that? I have been declared Khawarji, Murtad, Whabai, Shia & Hindu on multiple forums including PDF. are you?

Foreign powers will continue to play - they have their own objectives, it's our responsibility to put our house in order and protect it.

A lot of these should be questioned.. since you do the same when you research an academic paper..
There is a classification list of Hadiath.. from reliable to not so.. along with a separate book(s) that details its origin.
Yet many people who are swayed by Hadiath that seemingly condemn music or encourage bloodbaths.. do not bother to look at the whole scenario where it was said..
Again.. those people who collected these DID keep records.. of their research in a manner that might even put harvard referencing to shame.. but to all and sundry.. these records are overlooked.

 

[muse]

Yet, it must be looked at how the origin of this ideology.. used a systematic approach to fix problems at home.
And why this has not been tried here.
Care Rehabilitation Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What bothers me most is.. that this has been successful in SA...means that they knew exactly what the problem was.. and how to cure it....

Has it been a success?? Why then are more and more being arrested? By rehab after the event, - a little bit of prevention (fix it in society) worth... of cure

 

[SQ8]

Has it been a success?? Why then are more and more being arrested? By rehab after the event, - a little bit of prevention (fix it in society) worth... of cure

You do get repeat offenders in sexual predators as well.. but the program does have its effect.

They are also pushing prevention.. but the exported product has not changed a bit.

However, there is hope yet.. there are more signs that this ideology is being rejected at the level of the King as well.
I have corroborated reports from friends and contacts.. that a stir was caused by the Saudi King during a visit to Medina.. where he wished to offer Fateha and Durood at the Prophets side.. and a Mutawwa rushed in to try and stop him.. but to his chagrin was scolded by the King and told to walk away.
If a change has to come to end this ideology.. I think it will come from the house of Saud as well.. you fight fire with fire.. and they will end what their ancestors began.. I pray that there is time where I do actually feel pride in calling a Saudi King "khadim-e-harmain".. perhaps it will come.

Back home.. we are dealing with cancer.. and for us prevention may be only possible by countering this ideology with the original teachings that converted masses in India.. which was Tasawwuf(Sufism)...It has the basis, the teachings.. and everything.. to debunk and displace this takfirism.. but that is my opinion based on studying and research..
To me that is the equivalent of a healthy lifestyle in a cancer patient.. the rest.. the chemo.. etc.. has to be in a different form that Ive yet to dwell upon.

 

[muse]

You do get repeat offenders in sexual predators as well.. but the program does have its effect.

They are also pushing prevention.. but the exported product has not changed a bit.

However, there is hope yet.. there are more signs that this ideology is being rejected at the level of the King as well.
I have corroborated reports from friends and contacts.. that a stir was caused by the Saudi King during a visit to Medina.. where he wished to offer Fateha and Durood at the Prophets side.. and a Mutawwa rushed in to try and stop him.. but to his chagrin was scolded by the King and told to walk away.
If a change has to come to end this ideology.. I think it will come from the house of Saud as well.. you fight fire with fire.. and they will end what their ancestors began.. I pray that there is time where I do actually feel pride in calling a Saudi King "khadim-e-harmain".. perhaps it will come.

Back home.. we are dealing with cancer.. and for us prevention may be only possible by countering this ideology with the original teachings that converted masses in India.. which was Tasawwuf(Sufism)...It has the basis, the teachings.. and everything.. to debunk and displace this takfirism.. but that is my opinion based on studying and research..
To me that is the equivalent of a healthy lifestyle in a cancer patient.. the rest.. the chemo.. etc.. has to be in a different form that Ive yet to dwell upon.

That was great post, honestly made me feel good - hope, I likes very much. And I do very much agree that you fight this fire with fire - and I am persuaded that Faith can lead to Certitude and never the other way around.

 

[Dance]

LOL!!! If you think that abusing KSA & using foul words will restore peace in Pakistan than it's your logic, try harder to achieve it soon. As far as i am concerned my criminals are Pakistanis who are playing in hands of foreign powers, and i criticize both religious power house for making Pakistan playground for their struggle of influence. But you can't do this? can you?

Well said.

Thank you for speaking the truth about our predicament -- and yet I do feel for the likes of Dance and ICon and many others who sense that the "certainties" they had taken refuge behind, now serve as no refuge at all and they despise what they call "liberals" for pointing that out.

Lol Muse I didn't expect you to a mullah act-make judgements about other people with out knowing anything about them.

I dont understand how pointing out that Pakistani liberals are hypocrites equates me to "despising" Liberals?

 

[muse]

I dont understand how pointing out that Pakistani liberals are hypocrites equates me to "despising" Liberals?

Do you not despise hypocrites? why not?

 

[Dance]

Do you not despise hypocrites? why not?

I do, which is why I'm not a fan of the so called Pakistani liberals.

A beginner’s guide to Pakistani liberal politics – The Express Tribune Blog

 

[muse]

So many questions, always the questions - and of course all of these are taboo - If you allow the questions then sooner or later you will also have to answer those questions - I think those who imagine that these questions will stop are not being realistic

 

[batmannow]

So many questions, always the questions - and of course all of these are taboo - If you allow the questions then sooner or later you will also have to answer those questions - I think those who imagine that these questions will stop are not being realistic

The problem in pakistan is idealism!
Its not anything else?
There are no free minded thinkers in the librals & in the conservatives?
They just pick someone to follow & keep walking in his footsteps,these days IK is doing the job, he is mullaha, he is libral?
Find wht you like & follow him even he is wrong thts it?
There r no real librls & conservatives ,its just foolish idealism?

 

[muse]

The problem in pakistan is idealism!
Its not anything else?
There are no free minded thinkers in the librals & in the conservatives?
They just pick someone to follow & keep walking in his footsteps,these days IK is doing the job, he is mullaha, he is libral?
Find wht you like & follow him even he is wrong thts it?
There r no real librls & conservatives ,its just foolish idealism?

Idealism is never foolish - it's our aspirations, that what idealism is, if anything there is not enough of it in our society - any time you read a story or hear of a Pakistani who does things which you may have thought were not possible in Pakistan, that idealist spirit and ambition are awakened, and you just plain feel good and proud about being Pakistani

Anyway, don't be so cynical as to throw the baby out with the bath water - remember it's about spreading liberty in society but then some will ask how can we have light without dark? as if it were even worthy of being asked - and some would answer that because we also have the dark, let us not have any light (conservatives)

 

[Developereo]

If there is a pattern here, it is one that shows many actors providing the umbrellas, and no powers to remove those umbrellas.

Exactly. In Pakistan, the wolf are in charge of the sheep pen so there's not much hope for change.

A person objecting to someone else's choice of clothing, whether a skirt or a hijab, would not be a liberal by definition. Equally, a person trying to force their choice of "approved" clothing on others, whether skirts or hijab, would be heading towards the extreme left or right respectively. A true liberated centrist would let others choose as they wish, and maintain his or her rights to choose for themselves as well.

Bingo!

A simple concept that eludes our so-called liberals in Pakistan.

Yes, of course - perhaps if you look at it as satire - but wait, that's not really tolerable is it? Well is it or not? if notthen Liberal fascists are the least of your problems

See, almost all of the Pakistani embers behave as if they are some of thakedar of Islam and that would be fine except that they are not - but of course if we all censor ourselves, perhaps we will have little to say to each other? what do you think?

That piece illustrates the intellectual bankruptcy of those proclaiming themselves as liberals. The central theme of that piece is that the subcontinent was a peaceful heaven for centuries until Islam came along, and that everything will return to nirvana if only Islam would leave.

For any discourse to be successful, it must be intellectually honest. Throwing around politically expedient 'arguments' may win accolades from the usual suspects, but will do little to advance the debate.

You consistently twist people's words and set up strawman arguments.

Not one single person here has suggested that Pakistan should adopt Arab customs wholesale. Islam does not equal Arabism, but there are certain aspects of Islam which are conveyed through Arab culture, notably the Quran and certain rituals. There is nothing to be ashamed of -- Hinduism and Buddhism carry Sanskrit and Indian culture along with them and no one has issues when those aspects of Indian culture are adopted alongwith the religion. Similarly for Judaism and Hebrew.

To defend these realities does not make one a thekedar of Islam or Arab wannabe, as you pejoratively dismiss. We are proud of Islam and whatever aspects of Arab culture come with it, we will gladly adopt them. At the same time, we have many local customs from the subcontinent's cultural heritage that we retain. And, to complete the picture, there are aspects of British culture that we have adopted as part of the colonial legacy.

All these are part of our heritage and our culture now. The problem with extremists -- both liberal and Islamist -- is that they cannot come to grips with this multifaceted heritage and want to eject one or more aspects thereof. Make no mistake, the liberals fascists are just as intolerant and intellectually bankrupt as the Islamists. While it is true that they do not engage in physical terrorism, their intellectual terrorism is no more acceptable.

 

[Contrarian]

My point, that most parrot liberals miss, is that we should address the core issue -- political corruption -- rather than just one symptom thereof.

Simple question then. India has political corruption - and not one iota less than Pakistan. The same looting happens of resources, the same licenses are bought, PSU's sold off at less than market prices, the same local policeman takes a 50 rs bribe, that is passed upwards on till the start of the chain.

Why then do we not have this problem of Pakistan - of people blowing each other up in the name of religion ?

 

[Zarvan]

Simple question then. India has political corruption - and not one iota less than Pakistan. The same looting happens of resources, the same licenses are bought, PSU's sold off at less than market prices, the same local policeman takes a 50 rs bribe, that is passed upwards on till the start of the chain.

Why then do we not have this problem of Pakistan - of people blowing each other up in the name of religion ?

Sir what happened in Gujrat what happens every second day in India Muslims are killed because they are Muslims Sir and Pakistani liberals have only one problem they are paid touts of USA and kufr and follow their orders that is the only and biggest problem with them