The Problem of Urdu

[Raja.Pakistani]

Don't know whether it's allowed or not, but the demand is so little, that no businessmen in their right mind will air Pakistani channels in India, they'll never get any viewers.

lol funny

demand would be there if public would get the chance of watching it

Its like there is no demand of iranian channel because people never got the chance to watch it

I watched boht but i guess pakistani tv progarmme are much better and sensible than indian TV

but for film industry india is ahead of Pakistan because Pakistani film industry cease to exist after 80

 

[jatt+gutts]

no every language is difficult until you learn it ..you have learned gurumukhi script and you feel it will be easy for others and i know Urdu and i think its simple

All muslims learn to read quran and Arabic use same alphabets as that of Urdu and when you read Quran you will find that many Arabic words of Quran have same meaning in URDU so for pakistani muslims learning urdu will not be a big deal ..but again if white English boy never went to school then he would not be able to write his own language so its all about education and getting opportunity of learning

but punjabi is so easy even goras can learn and write it.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

but punjabi is so easy even goras can learn and write it.

I was talking about writing..

well then you have videos of chinese girl singing pakistan national anthem and english girls singing urdu songs but would that make it easy for everyone else? i guess no

 

[jatt+gutts]

I was talking about writing..

well then you have videos of chinese girl singing pakistan national anthem and english girls singing urdu songs but would that make it easy for everyone else? i guess no

but they have accent.. these goras speak theth punjabi..there are many videos of goras doing kirtan in theth punjabi.... a pakistani can learn to write punjabi if he knows punjabi alphabets in gurumukhi but for an indian to learn urdu is whole differnt thing. i tried myself but its lot complicated.for example to simply write harbhajan in hindi/punjabi simply write ha ra bha ja nah...5 letters..

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

but they have accent.. these goras speak theth punjabi..there are many videos of goras doing kirtan in theth punjabi.... a pakistani can learn to write punjabi if he knows punjabi alphabets in gurumukhi but for an indian to learn urdu is whole differnt thing. i tried myself but its lot complicated.for example to simply write harbhajan in hindi/punjabi simply write ha ra bha ja nah...5 letters..

You need to understand that if you were watching these guys speaking fluent punjabi ..they must have put some efforts to learn it..its true for every language..Harbjan can also be written in 5/6 alphabets in Urdu I am not asking indians to learn urdu but i was speaking for punjabi in pakistan


watch this

 

[MilSpec]

If commonality with an indian language is such thorn in the skin, then pakistan should go ahead and switch to Arabic..

 

[Armstrong]

@Armstrong thoughts?

I dunno yaaar I agree that we are loosing ourselves to outside influences whether from our neighbors to the East or the West as a Civilization but that is because of our failure to come up with a narrative of our own & telling our people - Who we are ? Had we built a collective consciousness of our own this would not be happening; therefore our failure is our own & only our own !

At the same time let it not be said that I'd advocate not learning from the West or the East or not letting their influences in; I'd very much want that but Nations should 'learn' & be 'inspired' not 'imitate' & 'conform' - Had we done what was required of us we would not be having this conversation right now !

On the Languages thing - First off all languages are derived from each other & the languages before them; therefore to tremble with indignation that Urdu is little more than Persianized Hindi is both, in my opinion, irrational & wrong ! There is nothing wrong with learning Hindi, I wouldn't want to because I prefer some other languages but there really isn't anything wrong with that. Plus we must bear in mind that Urdu evolved in a different direction due to Persian & Arabic influences & that our values, our anecdotes & our analogies in Urdu have an indelible mark of Persian & Arab thought & linguistics but because we're natives of this land - the Indian Subcontinent - naturally there are some values & some analogies & anecdotes that are common to both Hindi & Urdu - I find nothing wrong with that !

Furthermore I would prefer if we teach Classical or Koranic Arabic as part of our Curriculum along with Persian, Urdu, a native language of Pakistan of choice & English ! Learning Koranic Arabic would not make us an Arab State, as if we want to be one, & nor will learning Persian make us Persians, again as if we want to. Both of these languages have the greatest amount of Muslim Thought & Works of Unparalleled Scholarship preserved in them along with the former being the language of the Koran which would enable us to understand the nuances of the language to fully grasp the meaning & spirit of God's Word !
Urdu is our Lingua-Franca & it must be there for any 'unifying' force should be encouraged & not discouraged. Plus it also has an enormous amount of our Thoughts & Works preserved in it with many of them being particular to Pakistan & Pakistan's paradigms !
Our Regional Languages should be cherished & they should be learned to help us maintain our cultural & linguistic diversity along with pleasure of reading everyone from Ameer Hamza Shinwari to Baba Bulleh Shah in the language they should be read in !
Lastly English is a language that would help us Progress the most & any attempt to obtain the most knowledge from what the world (East or West) has to offer is the key to our Progress.

But it all boils down to one thing - Know Thy Self ! And if we can define that for ourselves there is nothing & no one's influence that we should be afraid !

 

[RazorMC]

I dunno yaaar I agree that we are loosing ourselves to outside influences whether from our neighbors to the East or the West as a Civilization but that is because of our failure to come up with a narrative of our own & telling our people - Who we are ? Had we built a collective consciousness of our own this would not be happening; therefore our failure is our own & only our own !

At the same time let it not be said that I'd advocate not learning from the West or the East or not letting their influences in; I'd very much want that but Nations should 'learn' & be 'inspired' not 'imitate' & 'conform' - Had we done what was required of us we would not be having this conversation right now !

On the Languages thing - First off all languages are derived from each other & the languages before them; therefore to tremble with indignation that Urdu is little more than Persianized Hindi is both, in my opinion, irrational & wrong ! There is nothing wrong with learning Hindi, I wouldn't want to because I prefer some other languages but there really isn't anything wrong with that. Plus we must bear in mind that Urdu evolved in a different direction due to Persian & Arabic influences & that our values, our anecdotes & our analogies in Urdu have an indelible mark of Persian & Arab thought & linguistics but because we're natives of this land - the Indian Subcontinent - naturally there are some values & some analogies & anecdotes that are common to both Hindi & Urdu - I find nothing wrong with that !

Furthermore I would prefer if we teach Classical or Koranic Arabic as part of our Curriculum along with Persian, Urdu, a native language of Pakistan of choice & English ! Learning Koranic Arabic would not make us an Arab State, as if we want to be one, & nor will learning Persian make us Persians, again as if we want to. Both of these languages have the greatest amount of Muslim Thought & Works of Unparalleled Scholarship preserved in them along with the former being the language of the Koran which would enable us to understand the nuances of the language to fully grasp the meaning & spirit of God's Word !
Urdu is our Lingua-Franca & it must be there for any 'unifying' force should be encouraged & not discouraged. Plus it also has an enormous amount of our Thoughts & Works preserved in it with many of them being particular to Pakistan & Pakistan's paradigms !
Our Regional Languages should be cherished & they should be learned to help us maintain our cultural & linguistic diversity along with pleasure of reading everyone from Ameer Hamza Shinwari to Baba Bulleh Shah in the language they should be read in !
Lastly English is a language that would help us Progress the most & any attempt to obtain the most knowledge from what the world (East or West) has to offer is the key to our Progress.

But it all boils down to one thing - Know Thy Self ! And if we can define that for ourselves there is nothing & no one's influence that we should be afraid !

Wonderful post.

And fully agree with encouraging classical Arabic. It frees us from GCC interpretations of the Qur'an and Islam. In fact, classical Arabic is in much demand in the Middle East for sermons and religious programs. Perhaps some of our better students can take part in those roles and turn the perceived Arab-superiority thing on its head.

 

[punit]

so much insecurity and then pakistani claim to be the sole heir of indus valley and vedic civilization

 

[ShahidT]

snip

without exception such debates always bring back the age-old matter of how we define ourselves, our identity, and some consider it a dilemma. but it really isn't. we belong to this land, have always done. yes, we were known as hindostani muslims before our independence. but the struggle to keep our deen alive and protected is central to this identity. we chose to part ways, and bloodshed was unfortunate, but that doesn't mean we should harbour animosity towards India. Quaid would never have wanted that. but at the same time maintaining what we strove to protect, to keep Islam core to our lives, should not be considered just in passing. however much we've strayed from those visionary ideals, we can always return to it. despite hostile interests trying to stop it, a Pakistani can still settle anywhere in our country and feel that he's surrounded by brothers in faith, blood and historical bonds.

you mention teaching Arabic along with three or four other languages during schooling. I think English is definitely needed to prepare future generations for the world's interconnectivity, but Farsi and Urdu should be left as optional. overloading the early stages of children's intellectual development with several languages could be shortsighted. Learning the regional language should be given priority after Arabic, and common medium of communication should also be Arabic. the reason why this fits is because, apart from the Arabian peninsula, many Arabic speaking countries of today have had another historical language that faded away. However, by emphasizing Arabic and a regional language, we maintain our culture, remove any source of perceived cultural chauvinism or invasion from outside, and also have a bridge to connect us with hundreds of millions to our west. Urdu should just be treated as the language of a community/region, like Punjabi or Sindhi, all of which balance out any possible negative influences from Arab countries akin to what we complain of as coming from India.

but at the end of the day, our most pressing matter and what we will be judged on is how well we followed the path that Allah s.w.t commanded us to tread. language matters little if the purpose of our existence is forsaken. that is unfortunately the most pressing issue in the country right now. the poets and national identity can be clarified with a cooler mind once a conducive situation arises. which will only come around through our own doings, not the help or saazish of outsiders.

 

[jatt+gutts]

You need to understand that if you were watching these guys speaking fluent punjabi ..they must have put some efforts to learn it..its true for every language..Harbjan can also be written in 5/6 alphabets in Urdu I am not asking indians to learn urdu but i was speaking for punjabi in pakistan


watch this

both the guys have an accent....as i said i tried writing urdu myself it is way too much complicated..

 

[EagleEyes]

They need to stop teaching Sindhi, Pashtun, Punjabi, Persian, etc.

Stick with English and Urdu. If the person is from Sindh and doesn't understand Urdu, teach in Sindhi, Urdu and English. A few generations later everyone will know Urdu and English.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

They need to stop teaching Sindhi, Pashtun, Punjabi, Persian, etc.

Stick with English and Urdu. If the person is from Sindh and doesn't understand Urdu, teach in Sindhi, Urdu and English. A few generations later everyone will know Urdu and English.

And lose our regional languages? already several regional languages are in trouble... why should we emphasis on a language with indian origins than our own mother tongues?

 

[FaujHistorian]

but they have accent.. these goras speak theth punjabi..there are many videos of goras doing kirtan in theth punjabi.... a pakistani can learn to write punjabi if he knows punjabi alphabets in gurumukhi but for an indian to learn urdu is whole differnt thing. i tried myself but its lot complicated.for example to simply write harbhajan in hindi/punjabi simply write ha ra bha ja nah...5 letters..

Hindi/Urdu will dominate every other regional language. There is no stopping.

Reason!

There is so much literature and movies and dramas being produced.

So no need to whine.


In Pakistan we should allow students to pick 2 regional languages + English. Then divide up the language classes in a way that they are not burdensome.


peace

 

[jatt+gutts]

Hindi/Urdu will dominate every other regional language. There is no stopping.

Reason!

There is so much literature and movies and dramas being produced.

So no need to whine.


In Pakistan we should allow students to pick 2 regional languages + English. Then divide up the language classes in a way that they are not burdensome.


peace

Hindi itself is getting punjabified and hindi aint gonna dominate in indian punjab i can assure you that and neither do in other provinces of india.. there are lot of dramas and movies in regional languages too in india.