The Problem of Urdu

[livingdead]

So you are comparing your gods wid tom and jerry

No, I am comparing some things which might have been shown in cartoon (your allegation) to tom and jerry. I cant believe any material which is not suitable for kids can go there, and people wont complain to I&B ministry.

 

[livingdead]

France is a secular country so why they banned Hijab and freedom of speech for Muslims .. Secularism implemented in France is limited to their own benefits so let's avoid talking about it ..


Broadcasting one's believe through cartoon is not right in any aspect ..

they way secularism is practiced in france is different from UK/US/India. But even then, they do satisfy the simple principle: separation of church and state. As long as law does not discriminate based on rellgion( which I dont think they do), they are secular.

Anyway, we are digressing from the topic. I was simplying saying most pakistani either do not understand secularism or pretend not to. I dont claim India is all that secular btw, there are instances ( trying to appease muslims in when court ruled man has to provde alimony for woman or trying to appease hindus in babri masjid case).
I can give many such instances where we have not been that secular as we claim. But our founding fathers tried their best, with the best of intensions to include in constitution.

I would not mind any pakistani pointing out and criticise us those plenty of instances, but some of the things that has been pointed is so silly, its hard to listen to rest of argument(even valid ones)

Also I dont agree with view of many Indians that just becase pakistan is not constitutionally secular, pakistanis forfeit all rights to criticize us about the way secularism is adhered in India. What is important is the logic and reason, not who is saying it(at least for me)
@Armstrong and farha, forgive me for writing this long post. I wont do it again (for a few days)

 

[Huda]

No, I am comparing some things which might have been shown in cartoon (your allegation) to tom and jerry. I cant believe any material which is not suitable for kids can go there, and people wont complain to I&B ministry.

Yes there is.....

 

[livingdead]

Yes there is.....

well then, I will encourage you to bring it to notice of I&B ministry. I should clarify that I dont watch those cartoon.

 

[Huda]

well then, I will encourage you to bring it to notice of I&B ministry. I should clarify that I dont watch those cartoon.

I thnk no more discussion i watchd these cartoons so mjhe zada pta hai

 

[Durrak]

they way secularism is practiced in france is different from UK/US/India. But even then, they do satisfy the simple principle: separation of church and state. As long as law does not discriminate based on rellgion( which I dont think they do), they are secular.

Anyway, we are digressing from the topic. I was simplying saying most pakistani either do not understand secularism or pretend not to. I dont claim India is all that secular btw, there are instances ( trying to appease muslims in when court ruled man has to provde alimony for woman or trying to appease hindus in babri masjid case).
I can give many such instances where we have not been that secular as we claim. But our founding fathers tried their best, with the best of intensions to include in constitution.

I would not mind any pakistani pointing out and criticise us those plenty of instances, but some of the things that has been pointed is so silly, its hard to listen to rest of argument(even valid ones)

Also I dont agree with view of many Indians that just becase pakistan is not constitutionally secular, pakistanis forfeit all rights to criticize us about the way secularism is adhered in India. What is important is the logic and reason, not who is saying it(at least for me)
@Armstrong and farha, forgive me for writing this long post. I wont do it again (for a few days)

Seriously i don't like to read long posts .. Well the thread don't belongs to secularism of any state so don't want to comment on it neither i like to criticize any country but you mentioned in your post about secularism in Pakistan which is why they can't comment on it so i asked you about secularism .. It is our right to criticize the things which in our opinion is not appropriate no matter by whom it is telecasting ..

 

[Srinivas]

Ask Android.

His post is quoted in mine.

He is the one who brought ethnic cleansing in Pakistan while talking about 1984 massacre of innocent Sikhs.

Read my dear sir. Read please!

Two states of Indian subcontinent got affected because of Religious intolerance from Muslims. One is Punjab and one is Bengal.

Regarding Sikhs, please stop your sympathies and concerns for them, you people not only massacred them in great numbers but also took their businesses and livelihoods forcefully right after independence.

1984 riots are unfortunate incident and a blood stain on independent India, we acknowledged it and moved on and made sure such incidents never occur.

India was founded based on Unity in Diversity principle and where ever any body are free to follow their language, culture and customs.

So no problem for anyone here.

 

[RangerPK]

Punjabis have a Punjabi schooling, study compulsory English AND have a choice of learning compulsory Sindhi OR compulsory Pashto.

@ Abjadi

That is a terrible idea.

It is better to have one national language, Urdu, and anyone is welcome to learn their regional language if they want.

I don't want my children to put up with learning their regional language punjabi, and then learn a regional language of another province, and in the end, the nation is still not able to communicate with each other after this tiresome exercise. We see a fragmented Pakistan then more than it is today.

Just keep the national language Urdu . Urdu will unit the nation. I dont care if we speak Hinglish, or Hindi to achieve that purpose....

As for being invaded by India if we learn Urdu, that is just insecurity, and I call BS on that. I am tired of this Indian centric mindset as if everything is dictated we do here has to do with India this or India that... seriously, its just another neighbour, like any other, Iran, China or Afghanistan, leave it be.

This obsession with India is becoming retarded now...

Oh no, my child said Chinta instead of Peraishani, he must be a Hindu now,! JK

 

[Srinivas]

1. No need for Prophet characters here. there are many Muslim saints make one on them.

2. yeh your post proves that anything offensive to Muslims and Islam will be liked by Indians
Much better than Indian hindu gods cartoons

Basically you hate Hinduism because you are afraid that India will swallow Pakistan culturally and there by endangering Islam.

Fact is you live next to a Giant which is cultural and soft power super power, whether you like it or not, Indian influence will be there.

Remaining all your posts are stupid rants and B.S.

 

[Jackdaws]

For someone who has written a book on History you seriously have a very lack of understanding of the same. I really take pity on people who bought your book. History is not a static subject. It continues to get updated based on new learning. It doesn't take long Myths turn into reality. Just like less than a 100 years ago IVC was a myth. Or Saraswati (or the existence of river like Saraswati) was considered myth but not any more. People are finding more and more about it.

On the specificity of Hinduism based on Myth I won't bother commenting. Since this forum is biased and the only religion you can badmouth here is Hinduism. It would be better to have this discusssion on a fair platform. But meanwhile you may want read up on Vedas.

When have I ever badmouthed Hinduism? Please point a single post of mine where I have done so. While I find it hard to believe that an army of monkeys made a bridge with floating stones to cross a sea and defeat an Army of a King who happened to be a demon with ten heads, I can see why you would believe it. I am not judging you - nor am I ridiculing your beliefs. I just find it hard to believe. If I have hurt your religious feelings, I apologize.

It is my opinion that the beauty of Hinduism is in its flexibility - we can choose to believe what we want. I believe it is a religion based on myths. The fact that you assume that your interpretation of Hinduism is right and mine is wrong actually goes against the grain of Hinduism itself.

 

[MST]

When have I ever badmouthed Hinduism? Please point a single post of mine where I have done so. While I find it hard to believe that an army of monkeys made a bridge with floating stones to cross a sea and defeat an Army of a King who happened to be a demon with ten heads, I can see why you would believe it. I am not judging you - nor am I ridiculing your beliefs. I just find it hard to believe. If I have hurt your religious feelings, I apologize.

It is my opinion that the beauty of Hinduism is in its flexibility - we can choose to believe what we want. I believe it is a religion based on myths. The fact that you assume that your interpretation of Hinduism is right and mine is wrong actually goes against the grain of Hinduism itself.

You don't have to apologize to me. I am an agnostic tilting towards atheism. But I am proud of the culture of my ancestors and their religion and practices. And hence my interest in understanding them. All I did was to try and correct you. The fact that people still can't separate between Hindu Culture and Hinduism as Religion is quite sad. Religion and Culture are tied together to a great extent yet there is a difference. And every Culture is full of Myths and mythology. So making fundamental statements like One religion is based just on Mythology shows a lack of understanding.

Well this is as far as I can go on sharing my thoughts on PDF. Any more and I will get banned since I will invariably bring examples of other religions and that won't be tolerated here.

 

[474474]

Height of Insecurity from the OP and the Article writer.

Seriously e.g. if my kids watch an Iranian Channel and pick up Persian words I don't think I will mind atall. Learning others language and other peoples culture is a good thing. Since I don't think that my culture is so weak that my kids will dump it and turn Iranians just by watching Iranian movies or speaking few Persian words.

This is though quite typical of a national going down the drains. The more you go down the drain the more is the desire to protect your way of living. So I guess OP is only echoing the wide perception in Pakistani society.

Another language is perfectly fine, but hindi is only a replacemen - it's 100% impossible to learn both hindi and urdu and control your ability to mix words as you speak

 

[474474]

Once the language is the same, the culture become the same; once the culture is the same the ideas become the same; once the ideas become the same the borders mean nothing; once the borders mean nothing, the borders come down; once the borders come down, the demographics become the same; once the demographics become the same, the economics become the same; once the economics become the same the political thinking becomes the same; once the political thinking become the same, the identity becomes the same; once the identity becomes the same… there is no more Pakistan, there is only India.
We’ll be back to living under the nightmare that was the Maratha and Sikh rule of the 1700-1800s.

I think the above paragraph shows the insecurity of some Pakistanis.. They don't seem themself convinced they are two separate nation from the Indian states, thus they constantly need to prove themselves to be different from Indians, by coming up with such arguments...

National language of Pakistan is Urdu, because it keeps the nation held together...

almost everyone on the Internet speaks English, take this forum for example, does that make us all lose our "identity" some how. When Arabs and Iranians speak English do they automatically lose their identity and become culturally unified?

I highly doubt that....

Tough I won't mind if Urdu is replaced by English. We seem to be half way there anyways....

but no one really bothers with urdu, most think it's hip or cool to speak hinglish instead of urdu. An trust me the retarded burger kids sound so annoying.

 

[MST]

Another language is perfectly fine, but hindi is only a replacemen - it's 100% impossible to learn both hindi and urdu and control your ability to mix words as you speak

My question why do you have to control. Shouldn't this fusion be encouraged in a globalized world. Why this insecurity that you will loose your culture. Hindi already has lots of Urdu words. And people here speak them without any fuss

 

[Jackdaws]

You don't have to apologize to me. I am an agnostic tilting towards atheism. But I am proud of the culture of my ancestors and their religion and practices. And hence my interest in understanding them. All I did was to try and correct you. The fact that people still can't separate between Hindu Culture and Hinduism as Religion is quite sad. Religion and Culture are tied together to a great extent yet there is a difference. And every Culture is full of Myths and mythology. So making fundamental statements like One religion is based just on Mythology shows a lack of understanding.

Well this is as far as I can go on sharing my thoughts on PDF. Any more and I will get banned since I will invariably bring examples of other religions and that won't be tolerated here.

I am agnostic and see Hinduism more as a way of life. I am drawn more toward Buddhism anyway - if I had to choose a religion for myself, I would pick Buddhism. And I never said Hinduism is based just on mythology. What I meant was that Hinduism incorporates a lot of mythology to propagate its beliefs - more than the current crop of prevalent religions which tend to have more dogmas. As it is Hinduism predates all major religions which means it is unfair to compare something much older to the other religions.