The Patriots and World War III....

[Ulytau]

Sigh ... some blind people can't see the coming of WW III ....

If WW3 didnt start in times of cold war i believe it wont start but if WW3 start we neednt to worry for future i guess,a quote from Einstein;

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

 

[DevilDog]

@Armstrong Hmm, I see, and I agree with you in most of your thoughts. Anyway; Actually "Devil Dog" is one of the mottos of the Marine Corps which's used to describe a marine like jarhead, leatherneck...etc. A US marine, a reserve marine or a young marine like me. it doesn't matter but in a branch of the Corps. The first thing that we learned from our drill instructor was never allow somebody to talk about our traditions (USMC's), especially making jokes. So please don't use that term again my friend, I'll be appreciated. it's not personal, I just have to do this. thanks.

 

[xyxmt]

so some guy writes his opinion and what might happen and all the armchair warriors are going at each other's throat. Real wars are not what you plan on papers it happens like a natural phenomenon and no one know how it ends

 

[DevilDog]

Now a pup warrior. One years later. A US Marine, promise.

 

[LegionnairE]

I just don't understand why people made such a big deal out of acqusitions of a few SAM batteries.

During both Gulf wars patriot batteries from The Netherlands was stationed in southern Turkey. As most of people here already know the outcome of both Gulf Wars was horrible for Turkey, strengthened PKK, second resurrected it. PKK still dwells in Iraqi mountains and nobody cares except Turkey.

Where I'm trying to get is, that we should keep our focus on Syria. Last thing we need is for it to become another terror-infested hell hole like Iraq.

PYD is going to have to be dealt with.
Extremist factions within FSA is going to have to be suppressed.

 

[FaujHistorian]

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I was simply alluding to my opinion that most of the mess that the United States is facing today would not be there if a more prudent, culturally/religiously sensitive & well-thought out approach was taken by the United States. Whether its the propping up or supporting of dictatorships in most of the Muslim World, the near blind support for Israel, the disengagement from Afghanistan after the Afghan Jihad where a country needed rehabilitation & not abandonment or the ill-fated & ill-conceived War On Terror ! I think if the US had thought it through a couple of times more & reevaluated the different opportunities & threats that arose during the course of the last 2-3 decades.....less turmoil & even lesser dead soldiers & civilians alike could be a very real possibility !

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My dear dear dear Sir Armstrong,

What you write above is pretty common among emotionally charged (and sometimes challenged) Pakistani educated elite.

The reason why they believe in such theories as a "Wahi" or divine document is that in general we the Paks do not study history.

Couple this uneducated approach towards history with highly socialist mindset (that Pakistanis refuse to accept), the resulting analysis is so out of reality, that our decisions and views towards our world become mangled mess and as a result our country is in a deadly tailspin.

It is this out of touch thinking that has been leading us to commit suicide at individual as well as national level. Thus turning our beautiful country into Islamist socialist emirates like Afghanistan, Somalia, Congo, and Boliviia.


What you say my dear dear Sir, is the same lingo used by the socialists of South American despots like Castro, Moralis, and chavez.


So what is common between socialists and Islamists? hate for America.

But then you ask if Americans are supporting dictators, what about anti-America dictators? Who is supporting them or was supporting them during the cold war era? or now?


Pakistanis say American supports blindly the Israel.

Who supported blindly the Palestinians and Arabs? Communist Russia.

Is it then Israel's fault that Palestinian's supporter is dead and they have been left "fatherless"?

Please try to look at this world from both socialist/Islamist view and then non-socialist/non-Islamist view. Hopefully with this balanced approach, you may become less anti-American or anti-American-foreign-policy.


peace to you.


p.s. Tell me where Afghanistani Jihadis tried to sign a long term military agreement with Americans? Just once show us victorious Jih@dis were making a beeline to Washington in order to link Afghanistan with America. Blaming one party is not fair. unless you thing only Americans are humans and rest of us just robots.

 

[Armstrong]

@faujihistorian : Sir jeee aaaap neii tou nangaa hii kar keh rakh diyaa mujheee !

I wasn't blaming one party *the Americans* but tis true that they, being the sole remaining Superpower in the world, wield considerable influence to affect change !

My comments weren't aimed at 'our wrongs' per se for they are many & there is no getting around the fact that we - the Muslim world in general & Pakistan in particular...in fact most particularly - are in the mess because of our ineptitude, lack of foresight & dare I say it, moral, social, ideological, political & economic 'prostitution' ! I was simply trying to highlight that in the past the United States has made some monstrous errors in their calculations that have led to terrible ruin at home but mostly & most viciously abroad. Errors that run from supporting Dictatorships in the Muslim world to a grave lack of proper assessment on Afghanistan & the Af-Pak region. The Jihadis weren't born out of 'nothing' that indoctrination, the suicide bombings, the so-called 'Jihad' wasn't conducted against the United States because of the Western way of life or the Western democracies it was due to the indelible footprint of the United States in the Muslim States whether it be 'governance', 'narratives' or any 'issue' of worth; it is was in reaction to this people started turning anti-US & in that vacuum the terrorists like Al Qaeeda flourished because they had now found an audience that could relate to what they were saying & were intent on listening to them. Of this crowd the low-lifers, the mentally challenged ones or the plain religious nut-jobs became the fighting cadre of the Al Qaeeda & the Taliban alike or 'canon fodder' as they should rightly be addressed. This was further compounded by the callousness with which successive American regimes & the military establishment have brushed aside some of the more legitimate concerns of the people who inhabited these lands. Take the example of Afghanistan - Why do you think the US wasn't able to win the hearts & minds of the locals ? Because of 'perception' ! Its that front that they've failed to deliver...it doesn't matter whether you're in the 'right' or are in the 'wrong' if the people perceive you to be the opposite of what you are. That 'perception' was the real enemy not a bunch of rag-tag Islamists called the 'Taliban'. Its that same 'perception' that has made Pakistan bristling with anti-Americanism. The cultural & religious sensitivities of the people, their sense of pride & the sense of being violated that comes with its breach is what lost Afghanistan, lost Iraq & lost Pakistan & most of the Muslim World for them !

And to be fair - I'm both a 'Socialist' & an 'Islamist' !

But I dunno whether that relationship is paradoxical or 'made-for-each-other' seeing that 'socialism' in its supreme form 'communism' seeks a liberation from 'religion' itself !

 

[FaujHistorian]

@faujihistorian : Sir jeee aaaap neii tou nangaa hii kar keh rakh diyaa mujheee ! :

Sorry. Didn't mean to attack my buddy my favorite poster

Was talking about Pakistani educated elite who happen to believe in socialist ideals but they won't admit it and instead wrap all the socialism in a green wrapper and call it Islamic-socialism. This by the way was the term coined by ZAB and his close leftie associates like Daaaktar Mubhasshar Hassan.



Happy New Year.

 

[Worf]

The FSA and the PYD made alliance; our stupid goverment is supply guns for PYD in a way.

I won't be suprised if the some PKK members started using MKEK made G3's. =(

 

[Armstrong]

Sorry. Didn't mean to attack my buddy my favorite poster

Was talking about Pakistani educated elite who happen to believe in socialist ideals but they won't admit it and instead wrap all the socialism in a green wrapper and call it Islamic-socialism. This by the way was the term coined by ZAB and his close leftie associates like Daaaktar Mubhasshar Hassan.



Happy New Year.

Thank You !

Happy New Year too !

By the way 'Islamic Socialism' predates Bhutto in the context of Pakistan & was first used, to the best of my knowledge, by Quaid-e-Azam himself in his Dhaka Radio Broadcast of '48 which first talked about Provincialism & its evils before saying & I quote : You are voicing only my sentiments & the sentiments of millions of Musalmaans when you say that Pakistan should be based on the pure foundations of 'social justice' & 'islamic socialism' not 'other-isms' !

 

[FaujHistorian]

Thank You !

Happy New Year too !

By the way 'Islamic Socialism' predates Bhutto in the context of Pakistan & was first used, to the best of my knowledge, by Quaid-e-Azam himself in his Dhaka Radio Broadcast of '48 which first talked about Provincialism & its evils before saying & I quote : You are voicing only my sentiments & the sentiments of millions of Musalmaans when you say that Pakistan should be based on the pure foundations of 'social justice' & 'islamic socialism' not 'other-isms' !

True.

But Jinnah's "Islamic socialism" was Hobsonian and Fabian in nature and not marxist mumbo jumbo that Mubhasshar Hassan and Bhutto employed to destroy Pak industry, banks and educational institutions.

Jinnah was rich nay super rich throughout his life. He didn't abhor wealth. no siree. He traveled in finest cars, dined like a king, and wore the best three piece suits available in his time.

He was not a shalwar kameez wearing tribal gansta. Far from it.

so please do not confuse Jinnah's views on economy with leftists and communists.

Thank you.

 

[T-123456]

There will be wars but never WWIII,no one wants the world to end!

 

[Armstrong]

True.

But Jinnah's "Islamic socialism" was Hobsonian and Fabian in nature and not marxist mumbo jumbo that Mubhasshar Hassan and Bhutto employed to destroy Pak industry, banks and educational institutions.

Jinnah was rich nay super rich throughout his life. He didn't abhor wealth. no siree. He traveled in finest cars, dined like a king, and wore the best three piece suits available in his time.

He was not a shalwar kameez wearing tribal gansta. Far from it.

so please do not confuse Jinnah's views on economy with leftists and communists.

Thank you.

I know his socialism was probably a euphemism for a more egalitarian distribution of wealth to lift the down trodden segments of the society especially the peasants who were caught in this endless, regressive cycle of tenancy & servitude to their feudal lords...too bad Quaid-e-Azam died too soon...far...far too soon ! Even though he was reported to have claimed 'merii jeeeb mein khoteiii sikeiii hain' - an allusion to the feudal elites who had joined up the Muslim League (even Iqbal lamented that in one of his letters to the Quaid & cautioned that we'd never be able to reach the grass-root Muslims with these elites on board); the Quaid still managed to keep them in check before they run amok with complete impunity after the Quaid's death & regressed much of the gains we'd made in '47.

P.S If you do get the chance to go through Iqbal's Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam, the Allama makes a clear distinction between, as he puts it 'the atheistic socialism of Nehru' & what he had envisioned Islamic Socialism to be ! A must read for any Pakistani !

Too bad most of our Mullahs & our so-called Scholars don't even know about this work of Iqbal ! Its simply brilliant.

 

[twilight]

If WW3 didnt start in times of cold war i believe it wont start but if WW3 start we neednt to worry for future i guess,a quote from Einstein;

actually , world war won't happen when international power have stability .... ( why Soviet and USA should start a world war and loss everything they had !? )

we can see signs of preparation for world war ... only look at lust of making new weapons and statics of exporting weapon ....

world war isn't really strange things .... it only need a series of mistake to begin ...

There will be wars but never WWIII,no one wants the world to end!

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/225372-patriots-world-war-iii-3.html#ixzz2FZfVCH6c

actually , no body wanted WW II as well .....