The Pakistan Navy's Frigate Options

[Maarkhoor]

I am telling you they are coming more chances are of EF because both NATO and USA had money due on us which they don't want to give in form of cash and instead are offering us weapons including EF

You are funny man I done here no more posts....u really amuse me...

 

[Muhammad Omar]

I am telling you they are coming more chances are of EF because both NATO and USA had money due on us which they don't want to give in form of cash and instead are offering us weapons including EF

And how Much money is due by US and NATO?? any estimate??

 

[Blue Marlin]

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@Quwa @Blue Marlin - Its me speculating again.

View attachment 294845

i dont think so, its just a design.
just like the jf-17 below is just a design

most likely it will be a heavily modified variant of the s20 sub.

The HPF proposed by CSoc is actualy very similar in dimensions to Type 054/054A (135x15,3 versus 134x16m) and I suspect the 3500tns displacement is standard rather than full load displacement. I.e. IMHO it is a ' light' export version of 054A, with a slightly smaller superstructure (i.e. hangar) but more smooth deck area forward of the bridge. Recall, in Feb 2013, China offered to sell Thailand 3 customized 054A frigates ("054T") for 30 billion Thai baht ($1 billion USD) total. Or, about $333 million per ship.

well yes that would be a good idea but instead of a lighter variant why not go for the full size ship instead? the f22p was $175 million dont you think it would be best to go for somthing like the algerian c28a which is roughly the same size of the f22p but instead of the fm90 sam a south africain vls would be a good idea instead.
how much would you think it would cost about not more than $220 million.

Umkhonto vls

 

[Wolf]

Pakistan purchased Agosta 90Bs with TOT. What is the reason that we are not producing anymore subs in Pakistan. If some systems are of any issue, we may incorporate chinese systems in the design of Agosta 90Bs. Is there any issue with it. Furthermore, what is the minimum requirement of frigates which Pakistan must have? Cant we procure lets say 6 Type 54s for 1.8 billion dollars with TOT from china. Regards

 

[Blue Marlin]

@Blue Marlin, your suggestion about the Saab Stirling AIP is valid. Saab has a history of selling the AIP independently of its own submarines, e.g. Japan and Shoryu-class. But given the issue of technology IP, I wonder if the submarines being built will include the AIP, or if the AIP will be retrofitted in Pakistan with the third-party vendor present.

In terms of the frigate, in addition to using CSOC's High Performance Frigate design, the PN ought to consider using an AESA radar and - essentially - 'mini-Aegis' system. Imagine pairing that up with DK-10 and/or HHQ-16 (whichever is available), FL-3000 and one day, extended-range SAMs (Chinese or South African equivalent of Barak-8).

well the french mesma is of limits for obivous reasons ,the german fuel cell will be very hard to aquire. the saab stirling seems viable. or the chinese striling will have to do.

reports are saying the deal is worth $5 billion ish providig this is correct
now being pathetic here the rookie thing is 5 billion /8 =$625 million
now what can $625 million get you?
dont forget india is paying about $763 million for the scorpene (tot included)
well what do you think:
either
A: a 2500-3300 tonne sub with westen kit and western aips with slcm capability
B: a larger than usual sub being entirley chinese with slcm capable
C: a chinese sub with no dependance on any other country.

i think c, as it's the safest and cheapest. but who nows righ?
also its worth noting no the actual price has not been reveled. so it could be much lower or higher.

 

[Super Falcon]

If option is old and rusted retired frigate better we dont have any option we cant put sailors life on misery on retired unfit frigates to go in war it is crimnal playing with lifes of their loved ones it is uterly stupid i can say one word PAK navy send them on sucidal mission nothing short of it

 

[Tank131]

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i dont think so, its just a design.
just like the jf-17 below is just a design

most likely it will be a heavily modified variant of the s20 sub.


well yes that would be a good idea but instead of a lighter variant why not go for the full size ship instead? the f22p was $175 million dont you think it would be best to go for somthing like the algerian c28a which is roughly the same size of the f22p but instead of the fm90 sam a south africain vls would be a good idea instead.
how much would you think it would cost about not more than $220 million.

Umkhonto vls

Frankly speaking, C-28 could easily be modified to have a vls in place of fm90. They did the exact same thing with 054 (raised deck and fm90) to 054a (flat deck and vls) and previously PN was stating if possibly they would rather modify F-22P design (which c28 is) than go for larger more expensive 054A. They dont (with ability to quad pack dk10 and fm3000) need as many cells as the 054A. Putting 16-24 cells is very doable if you have seen the revolver set up of some chinese vls systems and would give the vessel 64-96 medium range sams. These couls also be fitted as @Quwa pointed out, with umkhonto-er quad packs (which if we go back to our discussions about working with denel for jf17, would make a solid partnership with nearly the entire Pak military).

Given Pakistans experience with the f22p and that this is modified variant of c28/f22p would easily be able to be built in Pakistan. Cost given c28 (~225M) and F22P (~175M) would probably be ~$250M/ship which os far more reasonable than 054A let alone other ships. And it will have as good to better capabilities if provided with decent electronics.

 

[Quwa]

well the french mesma is of limits for obivous reasons ,the german fuel cell will be very hard to aquire. the saab stirling seems viable. or the chinese striling will have to do.

reports are saying the deal is worth $5 billion ish providig this is correct
now being pathetic here the rookie thing is 5 billion /8 =$625 million
now what can $625 million get you?
dont forget india is paying about $763 million for the scorpene (tot included)
well what do you think:
either
A: a 2500-3300 tonne sub with westen kit and western aips with slcm capability
B: a larger than usual sub being entirley chinese with slcm capable
C: a chinese sub with no dependance on any other country.

i think c, as it's the safest and cheapest. but who nows righ?
also its worth noting no the actual price has not been reveled. so it could be much lower or higher.

You're correct. The cost of the SSK program wasn't revealed. But it was Financial Times - with Farhan Bokhari (of Jane's) - that got the information, so there is a reason to trust it.

Frankly speaking, C-28 could easily be modified to have a vls in place of fm90. They did the exact same thing with 054 (raised deck and fm90) to 054a (flat deck and vls) and previously PN was stating if possibly they would rather modify F-22P design (which c28 is) than go for larger more expensive 054A. They dont (with ability to quad pack dk10 and fm3000) need as many cells as the 054A. Putting 16-24 cells is very doable if you have seen the revolver set up of some chinese vls systems and would give the vessel 64-96 medium range sams. These couls also be fitted as @Quwa pointed out, with umkhonto-er quad packs (which if we go back to our discussions about working with denel for jf17, would make a solid partnership with nearly the entire Pak military).

Given Pakistans experience with the f22p and that this is modified variant of c28/f22p would easily be able to be built in Pakistan. Cost given c28 (~225M) and F22P (~175M) would probably be ~$250M/ship which os far more reasonable than 054A let alone other ships. And it will have as good to better capabilities if provided with decent electronics.

I think the best rationale for a new (larger) design is longevity. The PN can determine from the design phase how much space it wants for future upgrades. So while an HPF would be 4000 ton full load with only 32 VLS cells today, 20 years from now the PN could expand that to 64. I'd much rather spend the money today, so that we can be served for 40-50 years without a hitch.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Frankly speaking, C-28 could easily be modified to have a vls in place of fm90. They did the exact same thing with 054 (raised deck and fm90) to 054a (flat deck and vls) and previously PN was stating if possibly they would rather modify F-22P design than go for larger more expensive 054A. They dont (with ability to quad pack dk10 and fm3000) need as many cells as the 054A. Putting 16-24 cells is very doable if you have seen the revolver set up of some chinese vls systems and would give the vessel 64-96 medium range sams. These couls also be fitted as @Quwa pointed out, with umkhonto-er quad packs (which if we go back to our discussions about working with denel for jf17, would make a solid partnership with nearly the entire Pak military).

yes thats what i said. remove the fm-90 and put in a short/medium range vls. heck if they dont want the
umkhonto, they can go for the hisar vls from turkey, or is that still in development.

You're correct. The cost of the SSK program wasn't revealed. But it was Financial Times - with Farhan Bokhari (of Jane's) - that got the information, so there is a reason to trust it.

well do you think it set them back 5 billion? such a rounded figure. i dont buy it, but its a very good guess though.

 

[rockstar08]

well yes that would be a good idea but instead of a lighter variant why not go for the full size ship instead? the f22p was $175 million dont you think it would be best to go for somthing like the algerian c28a which is roughly the same size of the f22p but instead of the fm90 sam a south africain vls would be a good idea instead.
how much would you think it would cost about not more than $220 million.

in that case , F-22P's+ with VLS and some more Electronics include better Radar and anti-Sub Capabilities , cause we have make F-22 p at home Already, all we need it to make a little twitches with hull design to fit a VLS ..
make it 3200+/- Ton Ship , at least better than buying OHP's and Type-23 cause they will cost , later on repair and overhauling cost + less life in them ..
long term Strategy must be new Ships , no more Old and relic Ships

 

[Quwa]

yes thats what i said. remove the fm-90 and put in a short/medium range vls. heck if they dont want the
umkhonto, they can go for the hisar vls from turkey, or is that still in development.


well do you think it set them back 5 billion? such a rounded figure. i dont buy it, but its a very good guess though.

It was "$4 to $5bn"

 

[Blue Marlin]

in that case , F-22P's+ with VLS and some more Electronics include better Radar and anti-Sub Capabilities , cause we have make F-22 p at home Already, all we need it to make a little twitches with hull design to fit a VLS ..
make it 3200+/- Ton Ship , at least better than buying OHP's and Type-23 cause they will cost , later on repair and overhauling cost + less life in them ..
long term Strategy must be new Ships , no more Old and relic Ships

well yes but ships are now having stealthy hulls so a c28a which is similar to thef22p would be a good idea

 

[As is - where is]

The frigates that Pakistan wants to decommission are 45 years old. By 2020~ they will be 50 years old. The British by early 2020s will start retiring their Type-23 frigates. The majority of those are 25 years old now, so by then they will be 30 years old. I think that if Pakistan manages to strike a deal with the UK it can get 5-6 frigates from 2020 until 2035-2040.

Their main weapon systems include:
1) A 4.5 inch main gun
2) 8 Harpoon missiles
3) 2 twin 324 mm torpedo tubes
4) 32 Sea Wolf SAM missiles (10 km range)

In the near future Type-23s will be upgraded with 32 newer Sea Ceptor SAM missiles (25 km range) which will replace the Sea Wolf missiles.

It's an economical solution worth thinking about.

 

[rockstar08]

well yes but ships are now having stealthy hulls so a c28a which is similar to thef22p would be a good idea

C28a is not much different from F-22P, to me its more of a combination of Azmat class FAC and F-22P .. the Design of Azmat class FAC is pretty Stealth , and it can also transformed into a Corvette from less than 1000 ton FAC into a 2500+ Frigate . Our engineers can work it up and come up with a new Design based on both platforms .

 

[Blue Marlin]

It was "$4 to $5bn"

well thats like saying that your gonna have a boy or a girl as your first child. 4 to 5 billion is a good estimate