The Pakistan Navy | Transformation from Fledgling Force to a Fighting Machine

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

Mate remember JF17 was built for PAF and PAF kept in mind the in future the integration of European weapons is a major necessity. Heck a few years back a deal with french was being followed for European avionics. MAR1 is the biggest proof of European weapons being integrated in to JF PAF wants JF to no only have all the weapons OF Mirage but also have the modular nature to integrate any weapon available so do not worry as long as we have jf 17s source codes we r good in integration department. Now eyre is a closed system as should an AWAC be to create a data link with eyre we need similar data link that saab manufacture for gripin now that is a problem cuz Thunder and Grippin are both direct competitors in there weight category.but even this ll be solved the same was F16s are connected with Chinese AWACA by a ground station data link and plane old radio com.

very well explained , bro. ... so nice of you for your effort & time ...

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

very well explained , bro. ... so nice of you for your effort & time ...

Any time bro

 

[RAMPAGE]

[MENTION=1634]

I really wish we could join the Milgem program andTF-4000 . It would be a great boost to our naval power. BTW PN recently visited Turkey again for an exercise.

Sir, are you referring to the TF-2000 program ?

TF2000-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kompromat]

@RAMPAGE

Yes TF-2000.

 

[RAMPAGE]

@Neptune

dude wtf , ur TCG Heybeliada isn't equipped with Vls !!!!

 

[Neptune]

@Neptune

dude wtf , ur TCG Heybeliada isn't equipped with Vls !!!!

Dude, it's a Patrol&ASW corvette. It doesn't have a missile role. Check my work i had done a few months ago:

 

[RAMPAGE]

Dude, it's a Patrol&ASW corvette. It doesn't have a missile role. Check my work i had done a few months ago:

my bad !!!

The tf-100 variant of Milgem class will be equipped with Mk41 VLS for the RIM-162 ESSM missle .......

 

[Neptune]

my bad !!!

The tf-100 variant of Milgem class will be equipped with Mk41 VLS for the RIM-162 ESSM missle .......

yeah: btw dude it's not milgem corvette. It's called ada-class.

PROJECT MILGEM:

Ada-class corvette: Stealth, ASW/Patrol

TF-100 class frigate: Stealth, Multirole

TF-2000 class frigate: Stealth, AAW/ASuW/ASW/Guided Missile role, anti-ballistic missile.

Ada is actually a frigate, and tf-2000 is actually a guided missile destroyer. But because of goddamn nato doctrines, we're gonna classify them lower.

 

[vsdave2302]

I Think that PN should focus on some good quality of Subs. All the surface ships of PN are of no use against India which possesses the weapons like Brahmos Or they may go for Stealth ships. Current ships are useless and sitting ducks.

 

[Kompromat]

@OzPete

This thread might interest you. Please check the first page.

 

[rockstar08]

I Think that PN should focus on some good quality of Subs. All the surface ships of PN are of no use against India which possesses the weapons like Brahmos Or they may go for Stealth ships. Current ships are useless and sitting ducks.

yeah i think you are right ... if you are guys are so dam good than why dont you claim to be a super power ?
if our ships are sitting ducks than what are yours ? rusting pieces of iron
grow up dude and stop watching durdarshaan

this thread seems to be more than a day dream
plus the future plans he mentions regarding 6 chinese subs , milgem class frigates , etc are still way far away from reality ....
we just have seen 4th frigate (PNS -Aslat) . its a good sign that we made it on our own so we can made more them in future ..i have a question here " how many years pakistan shipyards to make a zulfiqar class friagte ? "

 

[najeeb ahmed]

Great Solute Pakistani NAVY..

 

[Danish saleem]

Extremely close perhaps aerodynamically.Lets take a close look at the details since u claim i'm not aware of the 'details' of whats being discussed here.And you aren't the only ones who will use awacs.
See how they match up.

MANUEVREBILITY and PERFORMANCE-

The MOST important parameter of this attribute is THRUST TO WEIGHT RATIO-

Mig-29k-1.09
Jf-17-.82
Clearly latter is completely outmatched.TW ratio under 1 is not ideal.

2nd most important parameter-

WING LOADING-

Assuming both sides carrying Air to air weaponry[as is norm for CAP fighter protecting carriers and escorting jf-17s of the strike package which would amount to around 3.5 tonnes.By empty weight plus air to air weaponry divided by wing area]

Jf-17 - 371 kg/m^2
MIG-29K -390 kg/m^2

Here due to its lighter weight and single engine jf-17 gets advantage.

Other important parameters-

RATE OF CLIMB-

Jf-17 -175m/s
Mig-29k - 330m/s

Large difference in favour of mig-29k here.

G-limit-
Jf-17-8-8.5 G
Mig-29K- 9.5G

ANGLE OF ATTACK-
Mig-29 has traditionally had awesome angle of attack-
Max 45 degrees.
F-16 has around 30 degrees.
I am guessing mig-29 has large advantage over jf-17 here.Feel free to prove me wrong.

In other parameters of performance-

Service ceiling
Mig-29k-57,400 ft
jf-17-55,500 ft
More or less equal.

Speed-
Jf-17-Max MACH 1.6
Mig-29K -Max Mach 2.2
Solid advantage again for mig-29k.

Use of composites-jf-17- none.
Mig-29K-15%
As seen above Mig-29k almost totally outperforms jf-17 in manuevreability and performance.

NEXT-
AVIONICS-

Both fighters have EW suite and radar warning recievers,countermeasures,Digital FBW,HUD [heads up display] and MFD[multi functional display],HMS.

Key parameters-

RADAR-
JF-17-
KJ-7-5m^2 target at 105 kms.Can track 10 targets in BVR mode and engage 2.Can pick up naval targets only at 135 kms.

Mig-29K-
ZHUK-ME-5m^2 target at 120 kms.Can track 10 and engage 4 simultaneously.Can pick up naval targets at 300kms.
Again solid advantage for mig-29k.

IRST tracker-
Mig-29k-yes
jf-17-no
Another clear advantage of mig-29k.

3.ARMAMENT.

9 HARDPOINTS for mig-29k.
7 hardpoints for jf-17.

jf-17.Can carry 3000kg payload.
Mig-29kCan carry 5500 kg payload.

IMPORTANTLY,
Mig-29k can use R-73 ARCHER/HMS combo with high off boresight capability.
Something the AIM-9L or chinese WVR aams are unable to match.
This would give DECISIVE advantage in close combat to mig-29k.THis was found on luftwaffe mig-29s and thats why all western nations built high off boresight WVRs- example-pythn 4/5 for israel,Aim-9X for usa,IRIS-T germany.

Another fact-
Jf-17 is equipped with a single type of BVR-
PL-12/SD-10.An ACTIVE RADAR HOMING weapon.Range 70km-100kms.

Mig-29k-
Can use BVR missiles with 3 different types of guidance,much more difficult for countermeasures to defeat.

SEMI ACTIVE RADAR HOMING-
R-27R alamo-60-80 KM
R-27ER-Max range 130 km.

PASSIVE INFRA RED HOMING-
R-27T-70 kms
R-27ET-130 kms

ACTIVE RADAR HOMING-
R-77/RVV-AE -80 kms.

Thus in all 3 parameters of performance and manuevreability,armament and avionics MIg-29k holds solid advantage.
Therefore the chances of a jf-17 strike package actually threatening carrier after getting through mig-29k umbrella are nearly non existent.

Please also compere the prices of the two.

Jf-17 15 to 20 Million Us$
Mig 29 29 Million ( As per information Provided by Wekipedia)

So if you have a squadron of 25 Planes

Jf-17 cost around 437.5 Million Us dollars
Mig 29 Cost around 725 Milion Us dollars

Its mean from the difference of two prices of squadrons , Another 17 Planes of Jf-17 Available.

Another 17 Planes of Jf-17 means 17 Planes x 7 Hard Points =119 more hard points for carrying Weapons
Another 17 Planes of Jf-17 Means 17 other Planes acquiring your Mig 29's as a Target

and in another words we can say that from 725 Millions Us dollars, India have 25 Mig-29 and Pakistan have 42 Jf-17s

Another Advantage is Pakistan have a technology of upgrading the Jf-17 to block-2 when ever they want. But in the senerio of Mig-29's India have to get Permission for Upgrading.

Pakistani' Poilets knew the weakness of Mig-29's because they fly the Mig-29 in china this year during the Exercises between the two Air forces. but Indian Poilets dont really knew or saw the capabilities of Mig-29's.

At last during that conversation Indians matching the Jf-17s with Mig-29 of Russia. so its clearly shows that how in their own eye the own technology of HAL Tejas is very un comparable with any other technologies of World.

Danish saleem

 

[alimobin memon]

Please also compere the prices of the two.

Jf-17 15 to 20 Million Us$
Mig 29 29 Million ( As per information Provided by Wekipedia)

So if you have a squadron of 25 Planes

Jf-17 cost around 437.5 Million Us dollars
Mig 29 Cost around 725 Milion Us dollars

Its mean from the difference of two prices of squadrons , Another 17 Planes of Jf-17 Available.

Another 17 Planes of Jf-17 means 17 Planes x 7 Hard Points =119 more hard points for carrying Weapons
Another 17 Planes of Jf-17 Means 17 other Planes acquiring your Mig 29's as a Target

and in another words we can say that from 725 Millions Us dollars, India have 25 Mig-29 and Pakistan have 42 Jf-17s

Another Advantage is Pakistan have a technology of upgrading the Jf-17 to block-2 when ever they want. But in the senerio of Mig-29's India have to get Permission for Upgrading.

Pakistani' Poilets knew the weakness of Mig-29's because they fly the Mig-29 in china this year during the Exercises between the two Air forces. but Indian Poilets dont really knew or saw the capabilities of Mig-29's.

At last during that conversation Indians matching the Jf-17s with Mig-29 of Russia. so its clearly shows that how in their own eye the own technology of HAL Tejas is very un comparable with any other technologies of World.

Danish saleem

CM 400AKG in short words jf17 is better in Ashm role.

 

[The SC]

@AUSTERLITZ

Your "comparison" is incorrect between Mig-29 and JF-17. Both jets have identical capabilities and if you have simply ignored the fact that the JF-17s will be supplemented by ZDK-03 AWACS, it depicts your biased point of view.

Here is what Sukhoi Chief had to say about the JF-17. JF-17 "Extremely close" to the MIG-29: Mikhail Pogosyan

Moreover, JF-17 can be armed with a wide array of state of the art stand off weapons like, CM-400AKG,C-802A,SD-10A,Raad ALCM and Exocest. You have simply ignored my repeated statements that PN has a defensive sea denial doctrine and no offensive ventures will be carried out. You on the other hand are consistently comparing two navies on par to par basis which either means that you haven't read the article totally or you simply aren't aware of whats actually being discussed here.


Best Regards.

He is having problems with PN capabilities; read his first post on this thread, he can not even spell 6 all electric AIP submarines, he still wants to call them diesel electric. That says it all.