The number zero was invented in Ancient Pakistan

[srijeesh]

There was no modern nation state of Pakistan, just as there was no contemporary nation of India - India is in fact a day younger than Pakistan.

However, the ancestors of the people of Pakistan did indeed exist then.

this arguement is flawed since there were large scale migrations of the hindus(to india) who were most likely the successors of those ancients . many pakistanis do claim foreign ancestory.

 

[DarkStar]

this arguement is flawed since there were large scale migrations of the hindus(to india) who were most likely the successors of those ancients . many pakistanis do claim foreign ancestory.

Yes, as individuals those HIndus and Sikhs can also claim this heritage, but not the Republic of India as a whole.

You can, on the ohter hand, claim the history of Doab, Deccan, gangetic plains, the cholas, etc.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

this arguement is flawed since there were large scale migrations of the hindus(to india) who were most likely the successors of those ancients . many pakistanis do claim foreign ancestory.

The migrants at the time of partition were an extremely small percentage of the total population of Pakistan.

 

[bernard]

There was no modern nation state of Pakistan, just as there was no contemporary nation of India - India is in fact a day younger than Pakistan.

However, the ancestors of the people of Pakistan did indeed exist then.

thats what was my point, those ancestors were called Indians,because this region was called so,
you cant say that newton laws were invented in britain, but not in europe
61 yrs of border separation cant separate roots

 

[DarkStar]

thats what was my point, those ancestors were called Indians,because this region was called so,
you cant say that newton laws were invented in britain, but not in europe
61 yrs of border separation cant separate roots

Yes, now you're getting the gist of it. Ancient India is like Europe. Not a country, but a whole bunch of countries.

Just as Europe's borders and kingdoms have changed over the centuries, so has the Subcontinent's.

What a correct analogy you have used!!!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

thats what was my point, those ancestors were called Indians,because this region was called so,
you cant say that newton laws were invented in britain, but not in europe
61 yrs of border separation cant separate roots

Roots extend in all directions with Iran, Afghanistan, Burma, Sri Lanka ... but the nucleus of cultures and civilizations was centered around a particular location.

 

[Vinod2070]

Please come out of the denial.

Don't you see the absurdity of it all! India was like Europe: yeah sure!

Ever thought why it is only the Muslim converts who feel the compulsive need to deny their own history, try to become fake Arabs or at least try to claim that they had some exclusive history which they want to do nothing more with than put in museums or earn some tourist dollars!

Many of you guys are proving every day what I read in "Among the Believers: An Islamic Journey" by VS Naipaul (Sir Vidia ). Please do read and see how it describes exactly the actions in Pakistan, Iran, Indonesia, Malaysia etc.

A highly recommended read!

 

[roadrunner]

I now present my 4th (fourth) neutral academic reference proving the number zero was invented and further used in calculation in Ancient Pakistan.

Oh yes... the Bakhshali Manuscript, dated to around 200 AD.

What is the Bakhshali Manuscript?
The Bakhshali Manuscript is the name given to the mathematical work written on birch bark and found in the summer of 1881 near the village Bakhshali (or Bakhshalai) of the Yusufzai subdivision of the Peshawar district (now in Pakistan). The village is in Mardan tahsil and is situated 50 miles from the city of Peshawar.
Bakhshali manuscript

And of calculations involving zero?
Equations are given with a large dot representing the unknown (shunya). A confusing aspect of Indian mathematics is that this notation was also often used to denote zero, and sometimes this same notation for both zero and the unknown are used in the same document.
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/Bakhshali_manuscript.html

Half way down the page you can see an example of how "a dot + 1 = 1".

 

[roadrunner]

To summarize so far, whuddowehave?

An excellent reference from a top website by a well known western, neutral mathematician quoting:

"So you can see that when no beads have been moved, you need a symbol to represent “0". This symbol is very important, in order to show that this is the number 15730 and not the much smaller number 1573. It was probably in using an abacus that the Hindus of the Indus valley in today’s Pakistan first invented zero."
From Zero to Hero - MSN Encarta

We have the Bakhshali Manuscript, proving that "zero" was used in Ancient Pakistan first.

Bakhshali manuscript

We have Pingala's usage of the number zero in his treatizes which though in Binary, count up using the number zero to reset the count system after 9. Another Ancient Pakistani

We have Panini's early usage, before Pingali, and the Bakhshali's, of the shunya in his works - another Ancient Pakistani

To this the early Mahayanists added the post-Paranirvana development of shunya, that can be traced in Panini’s fourth-century BCE use of it, as an emptiness that is pregnant due to its situation in relation to another concept, like the potential of a term to have a suffix, even when it doesn’t have one. Which was followed slightly-later, by the mathematicians adoption of this same shunya as the zero, place holder, in their creation of the decimal system.
___________________________________

On Brahamgupta's Multan origins from Ancient Pakistan - he created the rules governing zero's usage

A very good neutral academic reference from Strasbourg University quoting Brahmagupta as from Multan
"Né en 598 au nord-ouest de l’Inde, à Multan, aujourd’hui au Pakistan, Brahmagupta passera une grande partie de sa vie dans la ville de Bhîlmal sous la protection du souverain Gurjara. "
Brahmagupta

Another academic reference from an Italian researcher quoting Brahmagupta as from Multan
"Indians became adept mathematicians around 3000BC, but only the usage of zero became well known around the 6th century when Brahmagupta of Multan formulated rules of operation usig it. For 400 years from the 6th century, India was foremost in maths, and zero began its journey around the world. With the rise of trade among Arabs, Greeks and Indians, caravans carried more than goods to China, Arabia and Greece."
http://www.ooffouro.org/ita/RESEARCH/ABQ/OOFFOURO_ABQ%20- ResearchArea.pdf

Yet another academic reference, this time from the University of Wisconsin, quoting Brahamgupta as from Multan, Pakistan

“Exponentiation and Euler measure,” is reminiscent of an interesting
“mistake” made by Brahmagupta of Multan in his 6th century treatise
Brahmasphutasiddantha."
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/math/pdf/0203/0203289v2.pdf

What's that.. And ANOTHER reference to Brahmagupta as being Multan-born!! Can it be true??!!

"The eminent Multan-born Indian mathematician Brahmagupta (598 A.D. - 660A.D.) went on to give the rules of operation of zero in his treatise Brahmasphutasiddhanta as though zero were any other number. Today, his rules may sound trivial, but imagine their significance when zero was ‘nothing’ in the rest of the world."
http://www.vidyaonline.net/arvindgupta/numeracy.pdf

I may have missed a couple there's so many........................

 

[karnivore]

To summarize so far, whuddowehave?

An excellent reference from a top website by a well known western, neutral mathematician quoting:

"So you can see that when no beads have been moved, you need a symbol to represent “0". This symbol is very important, in order to show that this is the number 15730 and not the much smaller number 1573. It was probably in using an abacus that the Hindus of the Indus valley in today’s Pakistan first invented zero."
From Zero to Hero - MSN Encarta

We have the Bakhshali Manuscript, proving that "zero" was used in Ancient Pakistan first.

Bakhshali manuscript

We have Pingala's usage of the number zero in his treatizes which though in Binary, count up using the number zero to reset the count system after 9. Another Ancient Pakistani

We have Panini's early usage, before Pingali, and the Bakhshali's, of the shunya in his works - another Ancient Pakistani

To this the early Mahayanists added the post-Paranirvana development of shunya, that can be traced in Panini’s fourth-century BCE use of it, as an emptiness that is pregnant due to its situation in relation to another concept, like the potential of a term to have a suffix, even when it doesn’t have one. Which was followed slightly-later, by the mathematicians adoption of this same shunya as the zero, place holder, in their creation of the decimal system.
___________________________________

On Brahamgupta's Multan origins from Ancient Pakistan - he created the rules governing zero's usage

A very good neutral academic reference from Strasbourg University quoting Brahmagupta as from Multan
"Né en 598 au nord-ouest de l’Inde, à Multan, aujourd’hui au Pakistan, Brahmagupta passera une grande partie de sa vie dans la ville de Bhîlmal sous la protection du souverain Gurjara. "
Brahmagupta

Another academic reference from an Italian researcher quoting Brahmagupta as from Multan
"Indians became adept mathematicians around 3000BC, but only the usage of zero became well known around the 6th century when Brahmagupta of Multan formulated rules of operation usig it. For 400 years from the 6th century, India was foremost in maths, and zero began its journey around the world. With the rise of trade among Arabs, Greeks and Indians, caravans carried more than goods to China, Arabia and Greece."
http://www.ooffouro.org/ita/RESEARCH/ABQ/OOFFOURO_ABQ%20- ResearchArea.pdf

Yet another academic reference, this time from the University of Wisconsin, quoting Brahamgupta as from Multan, Pakistan

“Exponentiation and Euler measure,” is reminiscent of an interesting
“mistake” made by Brahmagupta of Multan in his 6th century treatise
Brahmasphutasiddantha."
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/math/pdf/0203/0203289v2.pdf

What's that.. And ANOTHER reference to Brahmagupta as being Multan-born!! Can it be true??!!

"The eminent Multan-born Indian mathematician Brahmagupta (598 A.D. - 660A.D.) went on to give the rules of operation of zero in his treatise Brahmasphutasiddhanta as though zero were any other number. Today, his rules may sound trivial, but imagine their significance when zero was ‘nothing’ in the rest of the world."
http://www.vidyaonline.net/arvindgupta/numeracy.pdf

I may have missed a couple there's so many........................

O'Connor & Robertson article, regarding Bakhshali script, is the only research paper that can be taken with some seriousness. The rest are, well, mere references to Brahmagupta, by non-historians, and therefore wouldn't count.

However, some minor quibbles about that paper by O'Connor & Robertson. The script appears to have been found in an area which is now in Pakistan. It does not prove in any way, that the script was written in that area. Unlike, city ruins, scripts can move around, of course not on their own, but may be through change of hands. Further, to complicate your situation, that script appears to be a copy of an original work.

That paper, only proves, that at some point of time in history, a copy of an original work on Jain Mathematics, was physically present, at that place. It proves nothing more.

The same authors, while writting about the biography of Brahmagupta, note, that his birth place is "possibly" Ujjain, India. [I can't post links yet] They qualify their assertion with "possibly", because, to this day, other than Al Beruni's reference, there is no other direct refernce to his birth place. Although his place of work is more or less attested by different independent references.

You haven't replied to my earlier question. Since, Mr Manmohan Singh was born in Pakistan, does that make him a Pakistani.

 

[roadrunner]

O'Connor & Robertson article, regarding Bakhshali script, is the only research paper that can be taken with some seriousness. The rest are, well, mere references to Brahmagupta, by non-historians, and therefore wouldn't count.

One cannot just invent theories and say this is what happened. Like for example suggesting a river miraculously disappeared one day, or an entire population vanished since they decided one day to pack their bags and leave. One needs to look at evidence and piece together the facts.

The evidence from within the Bakhshali document shows that the its date could not have been later than 200-300 AD. One clinching factor of the Bakhshali is the Western Prakrit it is written in, which is a Buddhist Sanskritized hybrid known in some circles as "Gatha" - a common form of writing found in Gandhara, but not in modern day India or Bharat. This itself proves it was not Jainic (though Jainism did exist to a degree in Ancient Pakistan). However Gatha became extinct from Gandhara, as mentioned previously, but this shows it was a Gandharan document (nothing to do with modern day India).

Consider the Anavatapta gāthā which was written in exactly the same language as the Bakhshali, and on the same birch bark tree leaves. These were all common ways of recording thoughts in the real India (aka Pakistan).

However, some minor quibbles about that paper by O'Connor & Robertson. The script appears to have been found in an area which is now in Pakistan. It does not prove in any way, that the script was written in that area. Unlike, city ruins, scripts can move around, of course not on their own, but may be through change of hands. Further, to complicate your situation, that script appears to be a copy of an original work.

This has been debunked by all except for the beehives of Hindutva currently swarming the infested state of Bharat.

The language of the Bakhshali could only be understood by people who could read the Western Prakrit Gatha. This language had gone extinct from the mainstream by 300 AD. Therefore the dating of it is assured, and secondly, since the Northwestern Prakrit was not spoken in Bharat, there's no way it was written in Bharat.

That paper, only proves, that at some point of time in history, a copy of an original work on Jain Mathematics, was physically present, at that place. It proves nothing more.

No evidence exists that it has Jain origins.

The same authors, while writting about the biography of Brahmagupta, note, that his birth place is "possibly" Ujjain, India. [I can't post links yet] They qualify their assertion with "possibly", because, to this day, other than Al Beruni's reference, there is no other direct refernce to his birth place. Although his place of work is more or less attested by different independent references.

The author who refers to it as possibly Ujjain is clearly not sure!!!!

The authors who refer to it him as being born in Multan and of Multan are clearly sure. Else they would not have written this.

There are solid references from universities that prove Brahmagupta was from Multan, though he did move elsewhere to work - Why else does it repeatedly crop up that Brahmagupta, the Ancient Pakistani, was born in Multan? There has to be some strong connection.

You haven't replied to my earlier question. Since, Mr Manmohan Singh was born in Pakistan, does that make him a Pakistani.

Manmohan Singh's ancestors are from Pakistan. He has renounced his citizenship of Pakistan, and therefore has become an Indian.

One could ask similarly is Vitali Klitschko German or American?

Silly point.

 

[Flintlock]

 

[roadrunner]

^^Doesn't ths just prove the point that modern day India, or Bharat, has stolen mathematics from Ancient Pakistan and claimed it as its own. One can see how everything is lumped into all things "Indian" here without reference to the real India (aka Pakistan).

 

[Flintlock]

One can see how everything is lumped into all things "Indian" here without reference to the real India (aka Pakistan).

That's because Pakistan had nothing to do with it.

 

[Flintlock]