The New Pakistan US Relationship (After the Salala Check-Post Attack)

[Bratva]

It is normal procedure that military investigate themselves and cooperate with one another in their investigation. Not every incident should turn into international investigation. the US military had an investigation and so does the Pakistan Army, the only problem is that Pakistan Army did not want to cooperate with the investigation as expected from an allied military.

I referred to the international investigation of the flotilla which included representatives of Israel and Turkey. The UNHRC is a notorious UN body fill with human rights violators like China and Libya (for a time, Qaddafi was the chairman of the commission...), and most of its resolutions deal with Israel without any proportion while ignoring severe human rights violations of other countries. Furthermore, the mandate for the investigation was to find "Israeli war crimes" so Israel justifiably refused to cooperate with such a biased investigation.

Instead of debating further, the bolded part of your quote is crux of the our debate. The investigation team made by our ally was headed by a notorious person who was the head of that unit who created this all mess and Pakistan objected to his presence because whole investigation will become bias

 

[Bratva]

It is normal procedure that military investigate themselves and cooperate with one another in their investigation. Not every incident should turn into international investigation. the US military had an investigation and so does the Pakistan Army, the only problem is that Pakistan Army did not want to cooperate with the investigation as expected from an allied military.

I referred to the international investigation of the flotilla which included representatives of Israel and Turkey. The UNHRC is a notorious UN body fill with human rights violators like China and Libya (for a time, Qaddafi was the chairman of the commission...), and most of its resolutions deal with Israel without any proportion while ignoring severe human rights violations of other countries. Furthermore, the mandate for the investigation was to find "Israeli war crimes" so Israel justifiably refused to cooperate with such a biased investigation.

Instead of debating further, the bolded part of your quote is crux of the our debate. The investigation team made by our ally was headed by a notorious person who was the head of that unit who created this all mess and Pakistan objected to his presence because whole investigation would have become bias.

 

[nirreich]

Instead of debating further, the bolded part of your quote is crux of the our debate. The investigation team made by our ally was headed by a notorious person who was the head of that unit who created this all mess and Pakistan objected to his presence because whole investigation will become bias

Why he is notorious?

 

[SQ8]

Hey, this is not fair!

You can say stuff that I can't!

The real problem is that the price of keeping the morsels coming has dropped to levels that are now positively cheap, leading to a feigned sense of outrage at realizing that all the family silver has been sold off for a fraction of its worth already. And the sad part is it need not have been like that, and even more sad is the fact that this picture is not going to change either, anytime soon at least.

Better me than you.. trust me.

Had the 2cent sellout been done for the proverbial dollar, there would have been none of these incidents and our military would have been "actually" and not perceptually strong against all foes.

 

[VCheng]

Better me than you.. trust me.

Had the 2cent sellout been done for the proverbial dollar, there would have been none of these incidents and our military would have been "actually" and not perceptually strong against all foes.

Agreed 100%.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Why he is notorious?

notorious i dont know...but hmmm, he MIGHT be a bit biased no?

just might....

 

[nirreich]

notorious i dont know...but hmmm, he MIGHT be a bit biased no?

just might....

Usually every military investigate itself, and cooperate with its ally by sharing information and other assistance.

For some reason Pakistan Army refused to cooperate with the investigation. It was a political decision with no connection to actual events. A friendly Army which got nothing to hide do not act like Pakistan Army.

 

[RazPaK]

Usually every military investigate itself, and cooperate with its ally by sharing information and other assistance.

For some reason Pakistan Army refused to cooperate with the investigation. It was a political decision with no connection to actual events. A friendly Army which got nothing to hide do not act like Pakistan Army.

Israel does the same thing. National Security is above anything else.

 

[nirreich]

Israel does the same thing. National Security is above anything else.

You are wrong.

Israel cooperated with Turkey in investigating the flotilla case, although Tukey's Army was not even involved in the incident.

It is common practice for allied armies to cooperate in investigation and share information. Only an Army with something to hide and with a will to create an artificial crisis is bound to refuse for any cooperation.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Only an Army with something to hide and with a will to create an artificial crisis is bound to refuse for any cooperation.

The US offer to cooperate did not allow Pakistan and authority to summon US officials involved in the events or independently view/analyze electronic/video data around the events - that makes the US offer for Pakistani participation disingenuous and nothing but an attempt at PR, so they could claim, when they released their investigation, that 'Pakistan was involved in the investigation and therefore they did not understand why Pakistan rejected the investigation'.

Pakistan has even now made a demand for access to the gun camera footage and other electronic data, which was not provided to Pakistan as part of the investigation report released by the US - so any claims that the US had any honest intentions with respect to inviting Pakistan to participate in the investigation is baloney.

---------- Post added at 09:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 AM ----------

A friendly Army which got nothing to hide do not act like Pakistan Army.

A friendly Army with nothing to hide does not murder dozens of Pakistani soldiers in multiple cross border attacks over the course of ten years, and a friendly Army with nothing to hide does not have its spies going around murdering Pakistani citizens in broad daylight, nor does a friendly army with nothing to hide engage in illegal military operations in the heart of an allied Pakistan.

So far the US has, using your own logic, proven itself to be anything but a 'friendly allied Army' to Pakistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This is not the first time the Pakistani soldiers are getting killed unintentionally, and instead of cooperating with the US investigation of the incident and improve military coordination Pakistan Army decided on confrontation in order to win cheap public support.

Military coordination centers and SOP's for coordinating military operations along the border were already in place before the unprovoked US attack on Pakistani soldiers.

The US is entirely to blame here since it did not follow those processes and did not inform Pakistan before launching its border operations, did not correctly communicate with Pakistani officials when it allegedly came under fire from a Pakistani post, did not correctly communicate with Pakistani officials during the attack, and completely inexplicably did not halt its attack after Pakistan communicated to the US that its forces were under attack from US forces.

 

[VCheng]

................. did not inform Pakistan before launching its border operations, did not correctly communicate with Pakistani officials when it allegedly came under fire from a Pakistani post, did not correctly communicate with Pakistani officials during the attack, and completely inexplicably did not halt its attack after Pakistan communicated to the US that its forces were under attack from US forces.

The root causes for ALL of these factors that caused the accident are adequately explained in the NATO report. I realize you may not accept those explanations, but many others do.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The root causes for ALL of these factors that caused the accident are adequately explained in the NATO report. I realize you may not accept those explanations, but many others do.

The 'root causes' for all these failures are essentially explained away as US paranoia and delusions about Pakistani complicity (in which one should ask why the US went through the charade of agreeing to and installing all these SOP's, coordination centers and lines of communication in the first place, if the intent was to not really use them?).

It was a deliberate US failure in not informing Pakistan of the SF operation along the border in the vicinity of the Pakistani posts, which had been present for months at that point.

It was a deliberate US failure to incorrectly note/fail to note the positions of the Pakistani posts on its own maps, despite having been established months earlier.

It was a deliberate US failure to dance around with the actual coordinates of the target of US air strikes, despite Pakistan demanding they be called off since they were targeting Pakistani troops.

It was a deliberate US failure to provide the Pakistani liaison officer with incorrect coordinates when trying to determine whether a Pakistani position existed at the location the US was targeting with airstrikes.

From start to finish the NATO report provides one lame excuse after another, all of which fail to cover up the complete incompetence and/or deliberate intent of US forces to massacre Pakistani soldiers, unprovoked.

 

[VCheng]

The 'root causes' for all these failures are essentially explained away as US paranoia and delusions about Pakistani complicity (in which one should ask why the US went through the charade of agreeing to and installing all these SOP's, coordination centers and lines of communication in the first place, if the intent was to not really use them?).

It was a deliberate US failure in not informing Pakistan of the SF operation along the border in the vicinity of the Pakistani posts, which had been present for months at that point.

It was a deliberate US failure to incorrectly note/fail to note the positions of the Pakistani posts on its own maps, despite having been established months earlier.

It was a deliberate US failure to dance around with the actual coordinates of the target of US air strikes, despite Pakistan demanding they be called off since they were targeting Pakistani troops.

It was a deliberate US failure to provide the Pakistani liaison officer with incorrect coordinates when trying to determine whether a Pakistani position existed at the location the US was targeting with airstrikes.

From start to finish the NATO report provides one lame excuse after another, all of which fail to cover up the complete incompetence and/or deliberate intent of US forces to massacre Pakistani soldiers, unprovoked.

I can see that your personal opinion is quite fixed; I can accept that without agreeing with it of course.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Usually every military investigate itself, and cooperate with its ally by sharing information and other assistance.

For some reason Pakistan Army refused to cooperate with the investigation. It was a political decision with no connection to actual events. A friendly Army which got nothing to hide do not act like Pakistan Army.

Pakistan refused to cooperate for reasons that have been explained tirelessly on threads like these

and yes --- you are right of course it was a political decision! What else would it be? 26 of our soldiers were killed by friendlys over a nearly 2 hour engagement --despite REPEATED calls from our side telling them to watch their fire