The Nefertiri conflict between germany and egypt

[MarkusS]

The bust of queen nefertiri (or Nofretete how we call her in germany) is worldwide considered the greatest piece of art from the egyptian culture. She ranks at the same position as the golden mask of Tut Anch Amun and the pyramides.

She was discovered from the german archaeologist Ludwig Borchardt at 6th december 1912 in egypt. A contract was made with the kingdom of egypt that Borchardt could take 50% of his artifacts. When he found Nofretete he knew he would never get her out of egypt if he presents her. So he made pictures in bad quality and the officials in egypt made the bust part of Borchardts price. That way Nofretete came to germany.

Once here she was seen as an absolute sensation and placed as a main attraction in Berlin. Once egypt noticed the importance of this find it tried to get Nofretete back. It was Adolf Hitler who intervened and made Nofretete a german national heritage artifact and the queen herself a honor citizen of Berlin:

Again and again egypt tried to get Nofretete back, but germany dismissed all claims. Infact the new museum in Berlin has a cuppola hall just for her alone:

Chancellor Merkel herself dismissed egyptioan claims for her and said she will stay in berlin and not be moved anywhere. Whis this she even dismissed calls that Nofretete could be lend to egypt.

The official position of germany is, that egypt is not a safe place for the statue and that it is doubtful at best if the statue would be returned.

Egypt offered some german artifacts from WW II in exchange. For example the marshall staff from Rommel. But germany showed no interest in this deal.

Behind closed doors officials say that evrything has a price and that egypt could not offer anything that would make Berlin change its mind.

While nofretete is by far the most famous object, its not the the only one. Germany also got some much larger objects from the middle east in old times. The ottoman sultan gave them as gifts. For example the entire Ishtar gate from babylonia:

 

[Winchester]

Must stay in Germany she is part of German history.....oh wait !

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Stolen history of other nations... european museums are full of our ancient artifacts....

 

[MarkusS]

Must stay in Germany she is part of German history.....oh wait !

she is now, isn´t she?

emperor Wilhelm II brought her to public display. Adolf Hitler made her an german heritage icon. Chancellor Merkel praised her as important part of german history as well.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

she is now, isn´t she?

emperor Wilhelm II brought her to public display. Adolf Hitler made her an german heritage icon. Chancellor Merkel praised her as important part of german history as well.

Old times have passed... you cant keep these stolen artifacts much longer ... hope all developing countries take back whats rightfully theirs..

 

[Winchester]

she is now, isn´t she?

emperor Wilhelm II brought her to public display. Adolf Hitler made her an german heritage icon. Chancellor Merkel praised her as important part of german history as well.

here is the official reason from your own post

The official position of germany is, that egypt is not a safe place for the statue and that it is doubtful at best if the statue would be returned.

we know this is bull cr8p
Museums in Egypt attract visitors from all across the globe

 

[MarkusS]

Old times have passed... you cant keep these stolen artifacts much longer ... hope all developing countries take back whats rightfully theirs..

You can´t take it back with force. So why should we give back what is rightfully ours?

here is the official reason from your own post

we know this is bull cr8p
Museums in Egypt attract visitors from all across the globe

Egypt: Looters ransack Egyptian antiques museum and snatch priceless artefacts | Daily Mail Online

"
Looters ransack Egyptian antiques museum and snatch priceless artefacts as armed police move inside stormed Cairo mosque

• Museum in the Upper Egyptian city of Minya was broken into on Thursday
• Ministry accused Muslim Brotherhood supporters of breaking in
• Morsi supporters fought a gunbattle with security forces in a Cairo mosque
• The interim PM has proposed legally dissolving the Brotherhood
• Friday was fourth day of violence, which has killed almost 800 people

Read more: Egypt: Looters ransack Egyptian antiques museum and snatch priceless artefacts | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook"

Sorry...but no.

 

[Winchester]

You can´t take it back with force. So why should we give back what is rightfully ours?




Egypt: Looters ransack Egyptian antiques museum and snatch priceless artefacts | Daily Mail Online

"
Looters ransack Egyptian antiques museum and snatch priceless artefacts as armed police move inside stormed Cairo mosque

• Museum in the Upper Egyptian city of Minya was broken into on Thursday
• Ministry accused Muslim Brotherhood supporters of breaking in
• Morsi supporters fought a gunbattle with security forces in a Cairo mosque
• The interim PM has proposed legally dissolving the Brotherhood
• Friday was fourth day of violence, which has killed almost 800 people

Read more: Egypt: Looters ransack Egyptian antiques museum and snatch priceless artefacts | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook"

Sorry...but no.

how about giving the prime space in your museums to your own heroes from that era
hopefully you could find someone from 1250 B.C.E in German history....hopefully!!!
as for you link old news and happened in Minya
this statue would most likely be kept in Cairo under much heavier security
i would let a Egyptian member answer you here
@Frogman

 

[-SINAN-]

Thieves.... shameless thieves. Stealing other nations heritage.

 

[ResurgentIran]

I guess Germany feel that the Egyptian culture is vastly superior to their own, so they have to cling on to Egyptian artifacts and claim it as their own. Very interesting.

 

[al-Hasani]

This is typical. Europe has stolen half of their ancient artifacts from the Arab world and its ancient indigenous civilizations and any other civilizations of worth from all continents of the world.

Go visit the Louvre or the British Museum if you want any confirmation in person.

Thousands of artifacts retrieved from abroad | Arab News

Not long ago several European and Western governments returned in total over 19.000 ancient artifacts from KSA. "Abroad" in that articles obviously means the West.

It's just the top of the iceberg.

They should be returned to their countries of origin but in my opinion only if the security situation is appropriate.

 

[Serpentine]

Thieves.... shameless thieves. Stealing other nations heritage.

Some American and many Europeean museums are what they are today thanks to thousands of artifacts they stole from various countries around the world in 20th century.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

You can´t take it back with force. So why should we give back what is rightfully ours?




Egypt: Looters ransack Egyptian antiques museum and snatch priceless artefacts | Daily Mail Online

"
Looters ransack Egyptian antiques museum and snatch priceless artefacts as armed police move inside stormed Cairo mosque

• Museum in the Upper Egyptian city of Minya was broken into on Thursday
• Ministry accused Muslim Brotherhood supporters of breaking in
• Morsi supporters fought a gunbattle with security forces in a Cairo mosque
• The interim PM has proposed legally dissolving the Brotherhood
• Friday was fourth day of violence, which has killed almost 800 people

Read more: Egypt: Looters ransack Egyptian antiques museum and snatch priceless artefacts | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook"

Sorry...but no.

The world is advancing .. We are one 21st century .. As for force your countries would get their behinds owned if fthey fght one on one.. But the thing is .. You cant steal and than act all gung ho :.

 

[MarkusS]

how about giving the prime space in your museums to your own heroes from that era
hopefully you could find someone from 1250 B.C.E in German history....hopefully!!!
as for you link old news and happened in Minya
this statue would most likely be kept in Cairo under much heavier security
i would let a Egyptian member answer you here
@Frogman

The Cairo museum was also plundered:

Breaking: Images of Egyptian Museum Damage via Al-Jazeera

As for germanic art of this time. We have stuff much older than egyptian artifacts. The sky disc from nebra for example

It is 4100 years old

As for the rest, why should we give the prime space in our "egyptian museum" for our own artifacts? Our artifacts are shown in the national museum.

This is typical. Europe has stolen half of their ancient artifacts from the Arab world and its ancient indigenous civilizations and any other civilizations of worth from all continents of the world.

Go visit the Louvre or the British Museum if you want any confirmation in person.

Thousands of artifacts retrieved from abroad | Arab News

Not long ago several European and Western governments returned in total over 19.000 ancient artifacts from KSA. "Abroad" in that articles obviously means the West.

It's just the top of the iceberg.

They should be returned to their countries of origin but in my opinion only if the security situation is appropriate.

I don´t agree. Most of the countries are chaotic and can not guarantee the safety and security of the artifacts as well as visitors.

Those artifacts belong humanity and not egypt for example. Today egypt has zero connection to this past egypt. But humanity has . It is our duty to protect it. It was watched through the chaos in egypt. In worst case troops had to be send into egypt to secure the most important artifacts and bring them to safety.

Thieves.... shameless thieves. Stealing other nations heritage.

You do realize that most artifacts we have in germany that were brought from mesopotamia were gifts from the ottoman sultan to our emperor? The Osmanians even gave us an entire greek temple:

 

[Winchester]

The Cairo museum was also plundered:

Breaking: Images of Egyptian Museum Damage via Al-Jazeera

As for germanic art of this time. We have stuff much older than egyptian artifacts. The sky disc from nebra for example

It is 4100 years old

As for the rest, why should we give the prime space in our "egyptian museum" for our own artifacts? Our artifacts are shown in the national museum.




I don´t agree. Most of the countries are chaotic and can not guarantee the safety and security of the artifacts as well as visitors.

Those artifacts belong humanity and not egypt for example. Today egypt has zero connection to this past egypt. But humanity has . It is our duty to protect it. It was watched through the chaos in egypt. In worst case troops had to be send into egypt to secure the most important artifacts and bring them to safety.



You do realize that most artifacts we have in germany that were brought from mesopotamia were gifts from the ottoman sultan to our emperor? The Osmanians even gave us an entire greek temple:

about the sky disc thing
that i have no problem with
because the Romans depict the germanic tribes as nothing but savage barbarians and that is the popular perception
Germany should be confident enough of its own history and highlight that instead of having its museums show Egyptian history and claim a part in that heritage