The MYTH of PLAN Power.

[xuxu1457]

Yes the numbers are wrong on several occasions.By accurate i meant the assesment of capabilities not numbers,
If seen closely the PLAN has 14 real frigates.
13 type 054A jiangkai II.And 1 type 54 jiankai I.
The jiangkai I is armed with the obsolete crotale SAM and thus needs to operate within freindly air cover and is ill suited to an expedition to the indian ocean.

In any case this converges with the bloggers claim of 14 frigates though he may have got individual numbers wrong.
13 type54a and 1 type 54.

In destroyers the really modern ships capable of an independent expedition to the indian ocean are-
2 type 052c.[in service atm.not counting still coming].The third has probably been activated .
2 type 54b.
2 type 51c.
4 sovremenny.

So atm 10 instead of 8 modern destroyers,though more are coming in.


2 type 52 luhu and 1 type 51b luhai are otherwise capable semi modern ships except crotale sam which makes them ill suited to an indian ocean expedition.

Sovremenny class destroyer 956EM：4--136,137,138,139；
051:10
052:2--112,113(1994 enter service)
051B：1--167（1999 enter service）
052B:2--168,169(2004 enter service)
052C:6--170(2005enter service),171(2005enter service),150(2012enter service),151(2012.08enter service),152(launched 2012.01 ),153(launched 2012.07)
052D:one laucched in 2012.09, at least 6 will be built

054:2-525(2005.02 enter service),526(2005.08 enter service)
054A:20-in which 13 entered service, 2 launched, 2 under construction, 3 ordered
Number Pennant No Name Builder Launched Commissioned Fleet Status
1 530 徐州 / Xuzhou HP 30 September 2006 27 January 2008 East Sea Active
2 529 舟山 / Zhoushan HD 21 December 2006 3 January 2008 East Sea Active
3 570 黃山 / Huangshan HP 18 March 2007 13 May 2008 South Sea Active
4 568 衡阳 / Hengyang HD 23 May 2007 30 June 2008 South Sea Active
5 571 運城 / Yuncheng HP 8 February 2009 17 January 2010 South Sea Active
6 569 玉林 / Yulin HD 28 April 2009 1 February 2010 South Sea Active
7 548 益阳 / Yiyang HP 17 November 2009 26 October 2010 East Sea Active
8 549 常州 / Changzhou HD 21 May 2010 30 May 2011 East Sea Active
9 538 烟台 / Yantai HP 24 August 2010 9 June 2011 North Sea Active
10 546 盐城 / Yancheng HD 27 April 2011 5 June 2012 North Sea Active
11 572 衡水 / Hengshui [4] HP 21 May 2011 9 July 2012 South Sea Active
12 573 柳州 / Liuzhou[5] HD 10 December 2011 - South Sea Fitting out
13 547 临沂 / Linyi HP 13 December 2011 23 September 2012 North Sea Active
14 574 邵阳/ Shaoyang HP 9 May 2012 - - Fitting out
15 550 潍坊 / Weifang[6] HD 9 July 2012 - - Fitting out
16 575 - HD - - Under construction
17 - - HD - - Under construction
18 - - HD - - Ordered
19 - - HD - - Ordered
20 - - HD - - Ordered

 

[Tshering22]

PLAN is indeed a rising power, but it is not a killing machine yet. Defensive in its own region AKA SCS, yes it maybe strong. But to conduct combat in main Pacific Ocean against US or IOR against us is not something PLAN can afford.

 

[jhungary]

In war, you don't fight with what equipment you don't have, you fought with what you had, you can say to the enemy, "Wait, i got more of these coming"

If you want to include the hardware you do not have, then you should start a war in latter day.
While Chinese should not brag about the Destroyer they do not have, Indian should also not brag about the Aircraft Carrier they do not have, if you want to present a valid agrument, or you can brag about it another day when either of you have the said equipment you have in your inventory

 

[Anony]

Dude it's not the PLA Navy, PLA Air Force that we Indians should worry as we have good to not only negate but overpower these. It's the PLA Army and not exactly the army but ballistic missile, as China leads India upto 1:10 in the count of medium and Intermediate range ballistic missile to India.

Though CEP of our missile are better but 10 missiles with CEP of 200 m will do five time more damage than 1 missile with 25 m CEP. So now we can easily understand that China is still way stronger than India and it will remain atleast till a decade and half until Agni 4 and agni 5 come in good numbers.

 

[ice bomb]

Dude it's not the PLA Navy, PLA Air Force that we Indians should worry as we have good to not only negate but overpower these. It's the PLA Army and not exactly the army but ballistic missile, as China leads India upto 1:10 in the count of medium and Intermediate range ballistic missile to India.

Though CEP of our missile are better but 10 missiles with CEP of 200 m will do five time more damage than 1 missile with 25 m CEP. So now we can easily understand that China is still way stronger than India and it will remain atleast till a decade and half until Agni 4 and agni 5 come in good numbers.

Where did you get that indian missiles CEP are better than chinese ones? I dont recall China has given away those kind information.

 

[Secur]

Where did you get that indian missiles CEP are better than chinese ones? I dont recall China has given away those kind information.

Make.Believe ... I thought you would have figured that out by now judging from the quality of the article and the usual propaganda fed to their lot ... Chinese had ICBM's , SLBM's , Cruise missiles and SLV way before India got its first ICBM with reported range of 5000 km yet somehow Indians are superior in missile tech !

 

[doidoi2]

What can I say.

You guys got us. The PLA has no power.

The J-20, J-31 prototypes are all radio controlled model planes.

The BEIDOU 2 COMPASS satellites are actually flying rocks that do nothing.

The Varyag is a casino/restaurant/movie theatre.

The 052Ds in the shipyards are actually huge cardboard replicas.

Chinese GDP is also fake. Those Shiny new airports and hi speed trains? All models and fake.

Wow. You got us good. How did you guys find out, may I ask? I thought we had kept our secret pretty good. but dang it, the Indian press is too goshdarned smart for us.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

In war, you don't fight with what equipment you don't have, you fought with what you had, you can say to the enemy, "Wait, i got more of these coming"

If you want to include the hardware you do not have, then you should start a war in latter day.
While Chinese should not brag about the Destroyer they do not have, Indian should also not brag about the Aircraft Carrier they do not have, if you want to present a valid agrument, or you can brag about it another day when either of you have the said equipment you have in your inventory

FYI, India have one active Aircraft Carrier, with 3 On Order and under construction

 

[jhungary]

FYI, India have one active Aircraft Carrier, with 3 On Order and under construction

Dude, that's what i said, you guys keep saying "When you have the 2nd aircraft carrier, you will what what what" You do know the time it take for you to have a 2nd carrier, a lot would have change by then......

i am not particular bashing Indian or chinese, i just see the funny side of both your agrument, you guys are talking about stuff that currently exist on paper only.

If you have to compare both navy, set a realistic goal, compare the current tactics. Then you will get a better picture than you compare what you are going to build and what you are going to get.

 

[seven7seven]

What can I say.

You guys got us. The PLA has no power.

The J-20, J-31 prototypes are all radio controlled model planes.

The BEIDOU 2 COMPASS satellites are actually flying rocks that do nothing.

The Varyag is a casino/restaurant/movie theatre.

The 052Ds in the shipyards are actually huge cardboard replicas.

Chinese GDP is also fake. Those Shiny new airports and hi speed trains? All models and fake.

Wow. You got us good. How did you guys find out, may I ask? I thought we had kept our secret pretty good. but dang it, the Indian press is too goshdarned smart for us.

LOL I like the sacarsm.

I think the average Indian troll's train of thought is that everything the Chinese military makes is badly-made, copied junk and anything the PLA says is a lie. I say the average Indian Troll because not all Indian posters on here are that way but they are harder to see from all the Trolls here. I'm pretty sure Indian military chiefs don't see Chinese weapons as total junk but I'm sure they are glad to encourage such views among their own public, as it diverts attention away from their own shortcomings.

From what I see on this forum, no Chinese poster is saying China has an all-conquering Navy. I'm sure they are well aware of their own shortcomings in both numbers and quality of modern platforms. However, they are making amazing developments with regards to developing state-of-the-art technologies and their evolving ship-building prowess and efficiency is something any nation, including the US, would be highly impressed with, given how short of a timespan they have been in the military ship-building business. To be able to field AEGIS-equivalent destroyers and completely overhauling an aircraft carrier with their own indigenous systems that only the US, Russia and a handful of nations in Europe and Asia are able to do, is a great credit to the Chinese military industry.

I'm not pro-Chinese nor anti-Indian, I just call things the way I see them. China have had to do everything on their own out of necessity, because of the embargo, and I can't help be impressed with the profociency in which they acquiring cutting-edge ships, planes and missile systems. As a neutral, I'm happy to accept that what the Chinese are making is exactly what they say they are making, and take their word on face value. Just a rational inference from their growing domestic technological prowess is enough to know that what they are making in their military is the real deal and should be respected and enjoyed, from a military enthusiast's point of view. If India begins to make weapons system of the same level that China is showing, I would congratulate and give kudos to such achievements too.

 

[applesauce]

Yes the numbers are wrong on several occasions.By accurate i meant the assesment of capabilities not numbers,
If seen closely the PLAN has 14 real frigates.
13 type 054A jiangkai II.And 1 type 54 jiankai I.
The jiangkai I is armed with the obsolete crotale SAM and thus needs to operate within freindly air cover and is ill suited to an expedition to the indian ocean.

In any case this converges with the bloggers claim of 14 frigates though he may have got individual numbers wrong.
13 type54a and 1 type 54.

In destroyers the really modern ships capable of an independent expedition to the indian ocean are-
2 type 052c.[in service atm.not counting still coming].The third has probably been activated .
2 type 54b.
2 type 51c.
4 sovremenny.

So atm 10 instead of 8 modern destroyers,though more are coming in.


2 type 52 luhu and 1 type 51b luhai are otherwise capable semi modern ships except crotale sam which makes them ill suited to an indian ocean expedition.

however not all ships are meant for the role of area air defense, for instance the luhus can carry 8 c-802(the internal plaaf version having 200km+ range) which is a respectable antiship armament, a task force of a couple luhus and 054As can hold their own in the open ocean

that said its the internal electronics and the sensors that are the limiting factor in the older ships, if they can data link however they can serves are guns for the better equipped 052D or something

 

[hk299792458]

however not all ships are meant for the role of area air defense, for instance the luhus can carry 8 c-802(the internal plaaf version having 200km+ range) which is a respectable antiship armament, a task force of a couple luhus and 054As can hold their own in the open ocean

that said its the internal electronics and the sensors that are the limiting factor in the older ships, if they can data link however they can serves are guns for the better equipped 052D or something

I kindly suggest everyone to use correct references while discussing chinese weapons.

C-xxx are only for those dedicated for exportation, never chinese amy call their own missiles C-xxx. In our case here, you might want to say YJ-83 for Type 052 (Luhu is NATO designation, not a chinese official reference as well)?

When people saying that YJ-82 = C-802 it's completely wrong, actually YJ-82 is a submarine launched version of AShM, nothing less, nothing more...

If you want to talk about the air-launched version for PLA Air force or PLAN, you will find YJ-81K (K for Air), YJ-83K or YJ-83KH (The export version of this last one may be called CM-802AKG).

Let's see these points in some photos...

Air-launched version of YJ-81

Submarine-launched YJ-82 --> This reference only used for this version

Air-launched training version of YJ-83K

Air-launched version of YJ-83KH

 

[Pakistanisage]

Thats great that you have respect for it but most people are intelligent enough to understand Chinese weapons platforms that we don't need to call it with American designation. The Chinese F22, the Chinese Ohio class boat, or the Chinese Aegis. We know enough that China has their own pride and unique name. Just like we call Russian Akulas instead of Russian Los Angeles class boats. Or Russian T90 instead of Russian Abrams tank.

Are you kidding ?

Haven't you met Chinese that lands in New York and suddenly feels compelled to take on an " AMERICAN " name.

I know a few hundred chinese Joes and Johns here in New York ( not their real names ).

For some reason there is a segment of Chinese Society which is so enamored by Americans that they pretend to be Americans by changing their names.

 

[Gessler]

I admire how their shipyards build ships much faster than us.

However I believe the modern frigates/destroyers like 054A and 052C carry cruise missiles in
obsolete inclined box launchers instead of VLS cells like P-17 Shivalik -

Type-054A Jiangkai-II FFG -



Project-17 Shivalik FFG -



There seems to be a lot of clutter on those ships as well -





P17 FFG appears stealthier and there's far less clutter to contribute to RCS -





054A and 052C could really do with VLS cruise missile launchers, the box launchers are not stealthy.

Can anyone tell me something about the projected Type-054B FFG?

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Dude, that's what i said, you guys keep saying "When you have the 2nd aircraft carrier, you will what what what" You do know the time it take for you to have a 2nd carrier, a lot would have change by then......

i am not particular bashing Indian or chinese, i just see the funny side of both your agrument, you guys are talking about stuff that currently exist on paper only.

If you have to compare both navy, set a realistic goal, compare the current tactics. Then you will get a better picture than you compare what you are going to build and what you are going to get.

2nd AC is currently on Sea trials and will be delivered next year .........

after that two under construction.