The myth of ‘Hindutva terror’

[Wickerman]

But Muslims that they r a part of the greater Hindu Culture with in there religion r always welcome...

Cultural fascism is not good, so I dont agree with that. People should be free to follow whatever culture they want to.

& we r Tolerant & non violent as well but unlike Gandis Version of non violence which he taught to Hindus...we dont believe showing the other cheek to the culprit if u get slapped... we advocate if u get slapped for unjustified reasons then slap back the Culprit Twice ...

I dont blame Gandhi for what he did at that time, cuz lets face it, none of us know what it is to be in his position. But I do agree with the bolded part

 

[Joe Shearer]

Nah you dont need ISPR propaganda story for that,Sire.GOI and indian MSM did better job on popularizing the term saffron terror.Now either GOI+MSM is lying through their teeth or saffron terror does exists. Keeping in mind GoI and MSM are representative of Indian society that means either you are blaming Indians of lying about the existence of saffron terror or trying to shift blame on ISPR propaganda machinery just by being clever by half,Sire.

I am returning to this after a reasonable lapse of time, since it seemed that people were getting hot under the collar.

Most references to saffron terror are from us who are sensitive to the negative work and actions of Hindutvavadi extremists, who not only work at the political level, but whose work shades off from the political level through the medium of agitations and protest movements, some of which turn violent, right to staging riots targetting a minority community. These are not positive in any sense of the term; significant portions of this action programme are downright criminal. You mentioned that popularising this was the work of the GoI and of the MSM (what is MSM?). As far as I know, GoI never popularised or said anything significant about saffron terror, in no significant way, anyway, so that is frankly exaggeration.

So first of all the syllogism breaks down because the premises are not valid. Government of India never defined or popularised saffron terror, though individuals may have.

But let us examine the rest of it.

 

[Rig Vedic]

We dont look like seculars as we dont believe in Western Marxist type of Secularism we Believe in Indian version of Sarva Dharma Sambhava ...

One off-topic point ... the saying Sarva Dharma Samabhava is problematic. For one thing Dharma is a term that should be used only for Indic systems of thought. It is not identical to the western concept of religion. Secondly one should be free to decide what bhaava one wants to have towards any particular belief system, on the basis of an analysis thereof. One cannot demand a forced equivalence.

 

[jayron]

I don't think much of that. Whether it is four incidents or one incident, what does it matter? Horror is horror. Terror is terror.

well, scale matters. overwhelming number of Hindus including me are disgusted by these few fanatic Hindus. On the other hand, some muslims like this woman are justifying muslim terrorists and finds solace in the fact that there are fanatics in Hinduism too. I don't think there is any comparison.

IMO , Hindu terrorism is over rated for the same reason, muslim terrorism is under rated in India.... POLITICS.

 

[ajtr]

I am returning to this after a reasonable lapse of time, since it seemed that people were getting hot under the collar.

Most references to saffron terror are from us who are sensitive to the negative work and actions of Hindutvavadi extremists, who not only work at the political level, but whose work shades off from the political level through the medium of agitations and protest movements, some of which turn violent, right to staging riots targetting a minority community. These are not positive in any sense of the term; significant portions of this action programme are downright criminal. You mentioned that popularising this was the work of the GoI and of the MSM (what is MSM?). As far as I know, GoI never popularised or said anything significant about saffron terror, in no significant way, anyway, so that is frankly exaggeration.

So first of all the syllogism breaks down because the premises are not valid. Government of India never defined or popularised saffron terror, though individuals may have.

But let us examine the rest of it.

Sir,
You wont Term P.Chidambram ex- MHA as propaganda mouth piece of PPP ie Rehman malik.Chidambram who is very well know for choosing the words before he speaks has himself used the term saffron terror here.I ve not used the othe cacophony of indian main stream media or those of digvijay singh coz he is just a party man so that can be his personal opinion.but Chidambram being part of GOI as MHA has clearly carries weight and his words cam be counted as GOI words.

 

[ironman1]

CHAMBAL REGION

dude my ancestral home is dere....

which part Of CHAMBAL in UP, MP or RAJASTHAN???

MP , mate ! you from ?

this area was such a badass even in british rule that they had to be constantly vigilant against us ! also they were afraid of the region so much that they thought the fault was in water that there were so many "baagi" here .also they once closed water supply (well , bawri) of a whole village in region , to prevent the "baagi" mindset of population .

now we are proud to be one of the biggest recruitment area for indian army.

 

[asad71]

And have you ever actually been to India to see the "farce" for yourself? As someone who has (been to India) let me tell you there is nothing farcical about India's secular identidy. On the whole you will finds every time of religion/person living in India with little problems. Yes, India isn't perfect but it has the right foundations to be a great and fair nation. In a neighborhood that has nations being founded on a single faith India is incredibly unique and impressive.


But India is an incredibly large nation so in the past there was not a huge amount of inter-state mixing. Now with the communication age and transport links getting better and better you will see an incredible amount of mixing. For example ( I got this anecdote from a cousin)- go to a call centre in Delhi, you will find Indians of all relgions and minorites from all over India in one workplace getting along and working together- no problems at all.


The future is bright for India in that regard.

1.Actually I have visited India many many times.

2. Have you seen this call center girls sharing meals? Hindu and Sikhs will not eat with low casts. Jains like to dine separate. Etc. Etc.

3. Your view of India seems essentially urban. Next time take a tour of rural India, and you will gauge what I have said.

 

[vsdoc]

2. Have you seen this call center girls sharing meals? Hindu and Sikhs will not eat with low casts. Jains like to dine separate. Etc. Etc.

Have you never heard the term "personal preference"?

Does everything have to be colored by religion for you - specifically anti-Hindu tints?

Have you ever seen kids in school in recess time gravitating to small groups and clicks to eat.

Wondered about the socio-dynamics there?

I wish there were better posters amongst you guys.

I have a very negative impression of your country post PDF.

 

[KRAIT]

1.Actually I have visited India many many times.

2. Have you seen this call center girls sharing meals? Hindu and Sikhs will not eat with low casts. Jains like to dine separate. Etc. Etc.

3. Your view of India seems essentially urban. Next time take a tour of rural India, and you will gauge what I have said.

Next time you come to India, let me know, I will invite you to my town and show you around what real India is.

My friends who have started their own consultancy firm, has SC/ST, OBC, Jains, General Caste members, who attend marriages in their families, dine together daily and always insist on getting together. Everyday, at lunch, even when they have grown as a company, all sit together like old hostel days, and there is no caste problem at all.

As for your rural India, I will take you to my village, where the people which are respected most are from other castes, and they always stand together with our caste.

 

[KS]

2. Have you seen this call center girls sharing meals? Hindu and Sikhs will not eat with low casts. Jains like to dine separate. Etc. Etc.

I have seen and nothin of that **** happens. Caste actually does not even make a difference to the call center generation.

And genius do you know why the Jains eat separately ? Because of their culinary habits and religious restrictions

3. Your view of India seems essentially urban. Next time take a tour of rural India, and you will gauge what I have said.

He maybe a British of Indian descent...but I'm an Indian who has been in rural, semi-urban and urban areas. So what's your point again ?

 

[Wickerman]

1.Actually I have visited India many many times.

Being an Indian is different from visiting India "many, many times". So your argument still does not hold water.

2. Have you seen this call center girls sharing meals? Hindu and Sikhs will not eat with low casts. Jains like to dine separate. Etc. Etc.

Yes Jains, especially practicing ones eat separately. Thats because they have their dietary restrictions. They dont eat anything that grows below the ground, they dont eat onions, they dont eat garlic etc etc., Sikhs and Hindus especially non vegetarian ones, are almost diagonally opposite to them when it comes to diet. So they dont eat not because of caste-ism or discrimination. They do so because of practical reasons.

3. Your view of India seems essentially urban. Next time take a tour of rural India, and you will gauge what I have said.

I am from rural India, who moved to suburban India and finally ended up in Urban India. My father is the only educated man from that village. Lucky for me. But people there live in harmony and they are from diverse religions. Yes there are caste issues, religious issues every now and then, but such things exist everywhere. Look at Pakistan where even Muslims fight amongst each other. When there is diversity either in ethnicity, culture or religion then there will be conflict. Not perfect harmony. Expecting to have perfect harmony is actually impractical. However as a nation we stand as one.

 

[KS]

This is just for fun. Enjoy.


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6 suggestions to Hindu terrorists


Last night I ended up reading the Mumbai Police chargesheet on Abhinav Bharat (the Hindu terror group responsible for various blasts across India), the forensic report (what passes for night-time reading in my life) and Aseemanand’s (one of the Abhinav Bharat member) hand-written confession in Hindi (thanks to ER for fishing it out for me). After digesting all this information I have decided to...wait for it...convert my religion to Presbyterian Church of East Africa. The reason: I demand my religion, nay deserve my religion, to be represented by a better class of terrorists. Seriously, Islam get Al Qaeda, Christianity gets IRA and Hinduism gets these monkeys? I would rather go with Somalian Pirates (East African Church kind)

The only time I will get to use Abhinav Bharat and masterminds in the same sentence is when saying, “Abhinav Bharat is to masterminds like velociraptor is to friendly pet.” While I am opposed to terrorism and violence, I am more vehemently opposed to stupidity. Hence, I am forthwith dispensing six pieces of advice to any Hindu out there aspiring to be a terrorist. Please heed to my advice or pretty much don’t blow up stuff, although preferably the latter:


1. Pick an issue from this century. According to Aseemanand’s confession, the reason they decided to target the Mecca Masjid, Hyderabad in 2007 was “the Nizam of Hyderabad had decided to go with Pakistan in 1947, and they should be punished for that.” Seriously? That’s your plan? Punishing a city for an unsuccessful decision taken by a Nizam 60 years ago? I mean were they hoping to kill Nizam’s great-great-grandchild in the blast? Its like George W Bush invading Iraq because his daddy once had a beef with Saddam (oh, wait...)

2. No need to gift-wrap the evidence. While the movie industry and newspapers have convinced us of the incompetence of police in this country, there is no need to go out of your way to help them in their investigation. And video-taping yourself planning the bomb blasts and then leaving the video (with quality audio) on your laptop is clearly doing too much. You might as well...uh...I can’t think of doing anything else to make it easier for the police.

...except may be this.
Yet, this is precisely what these guys did. In the seized laptop of Sudhakar Dwivedi, police found videos of all the Abhinav Bharat members holding meetings in Faridabad, Ujjain and Bhopal discussing their plans.

3. Know thy enemy. Having someone to hate is critical for the existence of a terrorist group. So these guys decided to hate Muslims. Totally understandable, what with Muslims being minority and all, they clearly must be the oppressor in India. But once you have made Muslims your sworn enemies, don’t go recruiting them for your agenda. Aseemanand confesses that Sunil Joshi, who executed the Ajmer blast, had two Muslims helping him in the bombing! What the hell? It’s like US Army paying Taliban for its troop security (oh, wait...)

4. Don't be an *******. As terrorist group names go, Abhinav Bharat is not exactly the most terror-inspiring one; come to think of it, Abhinav (meaning innovative) Bharat doesn’t even mean anything. Then why get into copyright infringement with a perfectly decent NGO? Abhinav Bharat is a charitable trust working in Mumbai since 2001 (their website is the first to pop up when you google Abhinav Bharat) blissfully unaware of any bomb plots. Now they have to run around issuing press releases and convincing every tom, **** and harry that the only crime they ever committed was trying to popularize hockey (during IPL!)


Crimes against humanity
5. Give us a little context please. According to ever-so-informative video tapes seized by police, Abhinav Bharat agenda is to replace constitution of India to include more Hindutva in every aspect of society. It goes on suggesting more drastic measures like building forts in Madhya Pradesh (for real) for youth to have something to look up to etc. And the bomb blasts were just a way of drawing attention and uniting the Hindus. But then why didn’t they claim responsibilities for the blasts? For more than two years after the beginning of these bomb blasts, everyone including the police continued to think it was some Islamic extremist! Were we supposed to guess? Clearly these guys are loud as a mouse squeak.

6. Do not employ sentimental old fools. The worst part is Aseemanand confessed not because of police pressure or desperation but because of an honest to god, feel-good-movie style change of heart. Aseemanand was turned to the path of love and penance by Kalim - his cellmate in Hyderabad jail - who helped him by bringing food and water. Despite being a Muslim, Kalim’s helpful nature led Aseemanand’s conscience to ask him “to do prayschit [repent].” How is a hardcore terrorist organization supposed to maintain its operational secrecy if one of its primary member has a conscience?

These are the lessons learnt from history. So in future please keep them in mind while you mindlessly prepare for a random attack on innocent citizens who are likely to have played no role whatsoever in your imagined atrocities against Hindus (they may very well be Hindus.) As we all know, learning from your past mistakes helps you avoid them in future. Just like US having failed to miserably in Iraq and Afghanistan is no longer thinking of invading Iran (oh wait...)