The Mindanao unrest and Sabah illegals

[Wholegrain]

Bold Red: The dissolvement of USI was not even related to the cause that Javanese should hold the control of Indonesia. USI was partially initiated by Dutch Government via Round Table Conference in 1949. Soekarno viewed this as an effort to crack Indonesia up. And the re-establishment of a Unitary Republic was initiated by three Major Federal Governments; Negara Republik Indonesia (Central Government, Negara Indonesia Timur (Nation of East Indonesia), dan Negara Sumatera Timur (Nation of East Sumatra and later followed by other federal governments.



Soekarno couldn't dissolve the United States of Indonesia, he was the President of Indonesia but as the Federal system requires parliamentary system, Soekarno was no-one. The acting president of Indonesia, the real power holder, was Mr. Assaat and Mr. Soesanto Tirtoprodjo as Prime Minister. Soekarno was only a symbol with no political neither constitutional power. It's like Jurgend and Merkel, who do you think hold the whip? And Mr. Assaat was practically a non-Javanese as he was born in West Sumatra.



Bold Blue: Sultan Hamid's intention was still unclear, he was brought the seat of USI Cabinet without any Portofolio by Soekarno himself. The interesting fact about Sultan Hamid is that he was an ex-KNIL leutenant and had a pretty much close relationship with Raymond Westerling, who led the massacre in South Celebes 1946-1947.

With the political backup from Hamid, Westerling, with his men (mostly ex-KNIL and DST members) that made up a battalion, stormed Bandung and killed everyone with uniform. Their demand was only one, to let Pasundan remain a federal state and make APRA (armies of Westerling that had been estimated to reach 500.000 men) as the de facto military power of Pasundan state. Now the interesting thing is that if Hamid and his companions wanted to keep Indonesia remain as a federal country, why he targeted Bandung, West Java, when he came all the way from Borneo? which at that time, was more stable compared to Java itself. Hamid also targeted Soekarno and some other key Repubiclanists which lead to a conclusion that his rebellion is no more than a Coup d' etat to topple Soekarno.

Even the KNIL itself under the command of H.M. Hirschfeld sided with Indonesian government to crush Westerling at the gate of Bandung.

Bold Orange: Transmigration set up some regions ablaze because when it was implemented, Indonesia was still a centralized government country, the peak was in 1998-2002 when the country was destabilized due to the economic crisis. Every region, even Java itself was in chaos because everyone wanted the seat of Presidency but had not enough power to take out another group. When the government finally Implemented a "Federal-like system" that is called autonomy, such cases are almost completely gone, the only region that was still on fire is Papua.

Besides, the Transmigration had nothing to do with ethnicity, it is just a program to reduce the number of population living in an overpopulated islands. When East Timor was a part of Indonesia, the biggest transmigrant group was filled by Balineses. Why are most of the transmigrants Javanese? That's because Javanese alone make up more than 43 percent of Indonesia's population, of course they had taken the biggest number of transmigrant, are you an idiot or what?

Bold Yellow: Hands up, I don't even understand why you are dreaming that bad to change other people's country name and unite it as in your dream. Germany, Swiss, and Austria are German speaking countries, even some parts of Austria and Germany were either Prussian's region or Hapsburg Austria's, does that make them should unite into one country?

Besides, a united Nusantara as in your dream, that is a huge chunk of archipelago dude, by what power should Indonesia work to make your dream come true? Military invasion? We did, did it end well? No. Political? We did, did it end well? No.

Too bad for you to hold only on to English-based source when you try to make an argument about other people's country internal key events.

@kalu_miah it would be better for you to understand how Indonesians, Pinoys, or Malays think about an union before you rush to ask an opinion made by non-Malays. Ask Zero_Wing about what he thinks of this, ask Madokafc, ask Reashot.

First of all I did not say that Javanese benefited from transmigration because they were the ruling class. Where did I say that the people who were moved were well off? I know that in Kalimantan in Borneo, the Indonesian government moved poor, destitute Madurese from Madura onto Dayak land, due to overcrowding on Madura. This set off large scale massacres by Dayak atainst Madurese.

Second, Sukarno was a collaborator with Japan. Why is he better than Sultan Hamid? During WW2, the most resistance against Japan in Indonesia came from Borneo, with either the Sutlans allied to the Dutch, or the Islamists in Amuntai in South Kalimantan who tried to revolt against Japan and set up Islamic state in September 1943. The Japanese committed massacres in Borneo against the resistance.

While they were doing that, Sukarno and Indonesian nationalists in Java and other places outright collaborated with Japan.

 

[Wholegrain]

Bold Red: The dissolvement of USI was not even related to the cause that Javanese should hold the control of Indonesia. USI was partially initiated by Dutch Government via Round Table Conference in 1949. Soekarno viewed this as an effort to crack Indonesia up. And the re-establishment of a Unitary Republic was initiated by three Major Federal Governments; Negara Republik Indonesia (Central Government, Negara Indonesia Timur (Nation of East Indonesia), dan Negara Sumatera Timur (Nation of East Sumatra and later followed by other federal governments.



Soekarno couldn't dissolve the United States of Indonesia, he was the President of Indonesia but as the Federal system requires parliamentary system, Soekarno was no-one. The acting president of Indonesia, the real power holder, was Mr. Assaat and Mr. Soesanto Tirtoprodjo as Prime Minister. Soekarno was only a symbol with no political neither constitutional power. It's like Jurgend and Merkel, who do you think hold the whip? And Mr. Assaat was practically a non-Javanese as he was born in West Sumatra.



Bold Blue: Sultan Hamid's intention was still unclear, he was brought the seat of USI Cabinet without any Portofolio by Soekarno himself. The interesting fact about Sultan Hamid is that he was an ex-KNIL leutenant and had a pretty much close relationship with Raymond Westerling, who led the massacre in South Celebes 1946-1947.

With the political backup from Hamid, Westerling, with his men (mostly ex-KNIL and DST members) that made up a battalion, stormed Bandung and killed everyone with uniform. Their demand was only one, to let Pasundan remain a federal state and make APRA (armies of Westerling that had been estimated to reach 500.000 men) as the de facto military power of Pasundan state. Now the interesting thing is that if Hamid and his companions wanted to keep Indonesia remain as a federal country, why he targeted Bandung, West Java, when he came all the way from Borneo? which at that time, was more stable compared to Java itself. Hamid also targeted Soekarno and some other key Repubiclanists which lead to a conclusion that his rebellion is no more than a Coup d' etat to topple Soekarno.

Even the KNIL itself under the command of H.M. Hirschfeld sided with Indonesian government to crush Westerling at the gate of Bandung.

Bold Orange: Transmigration set up some regions ablaze because when it was implemented, Indonesia was still a centralized government country, the peak was in 1998-2002 when the country was destabilized due to the economic crisis. Every region, even Java itself was in chaos because everyone wanted the seat of Presidency but had not enough power to take out another group. When the government finally Implemented a "Federal-like system" that is called autonomy, such cases are almost completely gone, the only region that was still on fire is Papua.

Besides, the Transmigration had nothing to do with ethnicity, it is just a program to reduce the number of population living in an overpopulated islands. When East Timor was a part of Indonesia, the biggest transmigrant group was filled by Balineses. Why are most of the transmigrants Javanese? That's because Javanese alone make up more than 43 percent of Indonesia's population, of course they had taken the biggest number of transmigrant, are you an idiot or what?

Bold Yellow: Hands up, I don't even understand why you are dreaming that bad to change other people's country name and unite it as in your dream. Germany, Swiss, and Austria are German speaking countries, even some parts of Austria and Germany were either Prussian's region or Hapsburg Austria's, does that make them should unite into one country?

Besides, a united Nusantara as in your dream, that is a huge chunk of archipelago dude, by what power should Indonesia work to make your dream come true? Military invasion? We did, did it end well? No. Political? We did, did it end well? No.

Too bad for you to hold only on to English-based source when you try to make an argument about other people's country internal key events.

@kalu_miah it would be better for you to understand how Indonesians, Pinoys, or Malays think about an union before you rush to ask an opinion made by non-Malays. Ask Zero_Wing about what he thinks of this, ask Madokafc, ask Reashot.

First of all I did not say that Javanese benefited from transmigration because they were the ruling class. Where did I say that the people who were moved were well off? I know that in Kalimantan in Borneo, the Indonesian government moved poor, destitute Madurese from Madura onto Dayak land, due to overcrowding on Madura. This set off large scale massacres by Dayak atainst Madurese.

Second, Sukarno was a collaborator with Japan. Why is he better than Sultan Hamid? During WW2, the most resistance against Japan in Indonesia came from Borneo, with either the Sutlans allied to the Dutch, or the Islamists in Amuntai in South Kalimantan who tried to revolt against Japan and set up Islamic state in September 1943. The Japanese committed massacres in Borneo against the resistance.

While they were doing that, Sukarno and Indonesian nationalists in Java and other places outright collaborated with Japan.

I didn't talk about the differences between those two organizations.

The point I brought is that their existence also feed the existence of some of terrorist groups in Indonesia. Both MNLF and MILF were or are training some of those men, even supplied weapons, particularly explosives. Give Indonesia one good reason to be at least neutral, you can't. Malaysia is another case, Malaysia and Philippines had conflict, Malaysia was simply supporting any of them to destabilize Philippines but you can see the Sabah invasion. So much for a pet bitting the hand that feed it.

Malaysia supported them because Philippines under Marcos was aggresively trying to take over Sabah, and they stopped support when Ramos promised to leave Sabah alone.

 

[Wholegrain]

Bold Red: The dissolvement of USI was not even related to the cause that Javanese should hold the control of Indonesia. USI was partially initiated by Dutch Government via Round Table Conference in 1949. Soekarno viewed this as an effort to crack Indonesia up. And the re-establishment of a Unitary Republic was initiated by three Major Federal Governments; Negara Republik Indonesia (Central Government, Negara Indonesia Timur (Nation of East Indonesia), dan Negara Sumatera Timur (Nation of East Sumatra and later followed by other federal governments.



Soekarno couldn't dissolve the United States of Indonesia, he was the President of Indonesia but as the Federal system requires parliamentary system, Soekarno was no-one. The acting president of Indonesia, the real power holder, was Mr. Assaat and Mr. Soesanto Tirtoprodjo as Prime Minister. Soekarno was only a symbol with no political neither constitutional power. It's like Jurgend and Merkel, who do you think hold the whip? And Mr. Assaat was practically a non-Javanese as he was born in West Sumatra.



Bold Blue: Sultan Hamid's intention was still unclear, he was brought the seat of USI Cabinet without any Portofolio by Soekarno himself. The interesting fact about Sultan Hamid is that he was an ex-KNIL leutenant and had a pretty much close relationship with Raymond Westerling, who led the massacre in South Celebes 1946-1947.

With the political backup from Hamid, Westerling, with his men (mostly ex-KNIL and DST members) that made up a battalion, stormed Bandung and killed everyone with uniform. Their demand was only one, to let Pasundan remain a federal state and make APRA (armies of Westerling that had been estimated to reach 500.000 men) as the de facto military power of Pasundan state. Now the interesting thing is that if Hamid and his companions wanted to keep Indonesia remain as a federal country, why he targeted Bandung, West Java, when he came all the way from Borneo? which at that time, was more stable compared to Java itself. Hamid also targeted Soekarno and some other key Repubiclanists which lead to a conclusion that his rebellion is no more than a Coup d' etat to topple Soekarno.

Even the KNIL itself under the command of H.M. Hirschfeld sided with Indonesian government to crush Westerling at the gate of Bandung.

Bold Orange: Transmigration set up some regions ablaze because when it was implemented, Indonesia was still a centralized government country, the peak was in 1998-2002 when the country was destabilized due to the economic crisis. Every region, even Java itself was in chaos because everyone wanted the seat of Presidency but had not enough power to take out another group. When the government finally Implemented a "Federal-like system" that is called autonomy, such cases are almost completely gone, the only region that was still on fire is Papua.

Besides, the Transmigration had nothing to do with ethnicity, it is just a program to reduce the number of population living in an overpopulated islands. When East Timor was a part of Indonesia, the biggest transmigrant group was filled by Balineses. Why are most of the transmigrants Javanese? That's because Javanese alone make up more than 43 percent of Indonesia's population, of course they had taken the biggest number of transmigrant, are you an idiot or what?

Bold Yellow: Hands up, I don't even understand why you are dreaming that bad to change other people's country name and unite it as in your dream. Germany, Swiss, and Austria are German speaking countries, even some parts of Austria and Germany were either Prussian's region or Hapsburg Austria's, does that make them should unite into one country?

Besides, a united Nusantara as in your dream, that is a huge chunk of archipelago dude, by what power should Indonesia work to make your dream come true? Military invasion? We did, did it end well? No. Political? We did, did it end well? No.

Too bad for you to hold only on to English-based source when you try to make an argument about other people's country internal key events.

@kalu_miah it would be better for you to understand how Indonesians, Pinoys, or Malays think about an union before you rush to ask an opinion made by non-Malays. Ask Zero_Wing about what he thinks of this, ask Madokafc, ask Reashot.

First of all I did not say that Javanese benefited from transmigration because they were the ruling class. Where did I say that the people who were moved were well off? I know that in Kalimantan in Borneo, the Indonesian government moved poor, destitute Madurese from Madura onto Dayak land, due to overcrowding on Madura. This set off large scale massacres by Dayak against Madurese.

Second, Sukarno was a collaborator with Japan. Why is he better than Sultan Hamid? During WW2, the most resistance against Japan in Indonesia came from Borneo, with either the Sutlans allied to the Dutch, or the Islamists in Amuntai in South Kalimantan who tried to revolt against Japan and set up Islamic state in September 1943. The Japanese committed massacres in Borneo against the resistance.

While they were doing that, Sukarno and Indonesian nationalists in Java and other places outright collaborated with Japan.

I didn't talk about the differences between those two organizations.

The point I brought is that their existence also feed the existence of some of terrorist groups in Indonesia. Both MNLF and MILF were or are training some of those men, even supplied weapons, particularly explosives. Give Indonesia one good reason to be at least neutral, you can't. Malaysia is another case, Malaysia and Philippines had conflict, Malaysia was simply supporting any of them to destabilize Philippines but you can see the Sabah invasion. So much for a pet bitting the hand that feed it.

Malaysia supported them because Philippines under Marcos was aggresively trying to take over Sabah, and they stopped support when Ramos promised to leave Sabah alone.

 

[Wholegrain]

Bold Red: The dissolvement of USI was not even related to the cause that Javanese should hold the control of Indonesia. USI was partially initiated by Dutch Government via Round Table Conference in 1949. Soekarno viewed this as an effort to crack Indonesia up. And the re-establishment of a Unitary Republic was initiated by three Major Federal Governments; Negara Republik Indonesia (Central Government, Negara Indonesia Timur (Nation of East Indonesia), dan Negara Sumatera Timur (Nation of East Sumatra and later followed by other federal governments.



Soekarno couldn't dissolve the United States of Indonesia, he was the President of Indonesia but as the Federal system requires parliamentary system, Soekarno was no-one. The acting president of Indonesia, the real power holder, was Mr. Assaat and Mr. Soesanto Tirtoprodjo as Prime Minister. Soekarno was only a symbol with no political neither constitutional power. It's like Jurgend and Merkel, who do you think hold the whip? And Mr. Assaat was practically a non-Javanese as he was born in West Sumatra.



Bold Blue: Sultan Hamid's intention was still unclear, he was brought the seat of USI Cabinet without any Portofolio by Soekarno himself. The interesting fact about Sultan Hamid is that he was an ex-KNIL leutenant and had a pretty much close relationship with Raymond Westerling, who led the massacre in South Celebes 1946-1947.

With the political backup from Hamid, Westerling, with his men (mostly ex-KNIL and DST members) that made up a battalion, stormed Bandung and killed everyone with uniform. Their demand was only one, to let Pasundan remain a federal state and make APRA (armies of Westerling that had been estimated to reach 500.000 men) as the de facto military power of Pasundan state. Now the interesting thing is that if Hamid and his companions wanted to keep Indonesia remain as a federal country, why he targeted Bandung, West Java, when he came all the way from Borneo? which at that time, was more stable compared to Java itself. Hamid also targeted Soekarno and some other key Repubiclanists which lead to a conclusion that his rebellion is no more than a Coup d' etat to topple Soekarno.

Even the KNIL itself under the command of H.M. Hirschfeld sided with Indonesian government to crush Westerling at the gate of Bandung.

Bold Orange: Transmigration set up some regions ablaze because when it was implemented, Indonesia was still a centralized government country, the peak was in 1998-2002 when the country was destabilized due to the economic crisis. Every region, even Java itself was in chaos because everyone wanted the seat of Presidency but had not enough power to take out another group. When the government finally Implemented a "Federal-like system" that is called autonomy, such cases are almost completely gone, the only region that was still on fire is Papua.

Besides, the Transmigration had nothing to do with ethnicity, it is just a program to reduce the number of population living in an overpopulated islands. When East Timor was a part of Indonesia, the biggest transmigrant group was filled by Balineses. Why are most of the transmigrants Javanese? That's because Javanese alone make up more than 43 percent of Indonesia's population, of course they had taken the biggest number of transmigrant, are you an idiot or what?

Bold Yellow: Hands up, I don't even understand why you are dreaming that bad to change other people's country name and unite it as in your dream. Germany, Swiss, and Austria are German speaking countries, even some parts of Austria and Germany were either Prussian's region or Hapsburg Austria's, does that make them should unite into one country?

Besides, a united Nusantara as in your dream, that is a huge chunk of archipelago dude, by what power should Indonesia work to make your dream come true? Military invasion? We did, did it end well? No. Political? We did, did it end well? No.

Too bad for you to hold only on to English-based source when you try to make an argument about other people's country internal key events.

@kalu_miah it would be better for you to understand how Indonesians, Pinoys, or Malays think about an union before you rush to ask an opinion made by non-Malays. Ask Zero_Wing about what he thinks of this, ask Madokafc, ask Reashot.

First of all I did not say that Javanese benefited from transmigration because they were the ruling class. Where did I say that the people who were moved were well off? I know that in Kalimantan in Borneo, the Indonesian government moved poor, destitute Madurese from Madura onto Dayak land, due to overcrowding on Madura. This set off large scale massacres by Dayak against Madurese.

Second, Sukarno was a collaborator with Japan. Why is he better than Sultan Hamid? During WW2, the most resistance against Japan in Indonesia came from Borneo, with either the Sutlans allied to the Dutch, or the Islamists in Amuntai in South Kalimantan who tried to revolt against Japan and set up Islamic state in September 1943. The Japanese committed massacres in Borneo against the resistance.

While they were doing that, Sukarno and Indonesian nationalists in Java and other places outright collaborated with Japan.

I didn't talk about the differences between those two organizations.

The point I brought is that their existence also feed the existence of some of terrorist groups in Indonesia. Both MNLF and MILF were or are training some of those men, even supplied weapons, particularly explosives. Give Indonesia one good reason to be at least neutral, you can't. Malaysia is another case, Malaysia and Philippines had conflict, Malaysia was simply supporting any of them to destabilize Philippines but you can see the Sabah invasion. So much for a pet bitting the hand that feed it.

Malaysia supported them because Philippines under Marcos was aggresively trying to take over Sabah, and they stopped support when Ramos promised to leave Sabah alone.

 

[Wholegrain]

Bold Red: The dissolvement of USI was not even related to the cause that Javanese should hold the control of Indonesia. USI was partially initiated by Dutch Government via Round Table Conference in 1949. Soekarno viewed this as an effort to crack Indonesia up. And the re-establishment of a Unitary Republic was initiated by three Major Federal Governments; Negara Republik Indonesia (Central Government, Negara Indonesia Timur (Nation of East Indonesia), dan Negara Sumatera Timur (Nation of East Sumatra and later followed by other federal governments.

First of all I did not say that Javanese benefited from transmigration because they were the ruling class. Where did I say that the people who were moved were well off? I know that in Kalimantan in Borneo, the Indonesian government moved poor, destitute Madurese from Madura onto Dayak land, due to overcrowding on Madura. This set off large scale massacres by Dayak against Madurese.

Second, Sukarno was a collaborator with Japan. Why is he better than Sultan Hamid? During WW2, the most resistance against Japan in Indonesia came from Borneo, with either the Sutlans allied to the Dutch, or the Islamists in Amuntai in South Kalimantan who tried to revolt against Japan and set up Islamic state in September 1943. The Japanese committed massacres in Borneo against the resistance.

While they were doing that, Sukarno and Indonesian nationalists in Java and other places outright collaborated with Japan.

I didn't talk about the differences between those two organizations.

The point I brought is that their existence also feed the existence of some of terrorist groups in Indonesia. Both MNLF and MILF were or are training some of those men, even supplied weapons, particularly explosives. Give Indonesia one good reason to be at least neutral, you can't. Malaysia is another case, Malaysia and Philippines had conflict, Malaysia was simply supporting any of them to destabilize Philippines but you can see the Sabah invasion. So much for a pet bitting the hand that feed it.

Malaysia supported them because Philippines under Marcos was aggresively trying to take over Sabah, and they stopped support when Ramos promised to leave Sabah alone.

 

[Wholegrain]

For some reason the forum isn't allowing me to post a response, I'll try again without Nufix's quotes

First of all I did not say that Javanese benefited from transmigration because they were the ruling class. Where did I say that the people who were moved were well off? I know that in Kalimantan in Borneo, the Indonesian government moved poor, destitute Madurese from Madura onto Dayak land, due to overcrowding on Madura. This set off large scale massacres by Dayak against Madurese.

Second, Sukarno was a collaborator with Japan. Why is he better than Sultan Hamid? During WW2, the most resistance against Japan in Indonesia came from Borneo, with either the Sutlans allied to the Dutch, or the Islamists in Amuntai in South Kalimantan who tried to revolt against Japan and set up Islamic state in September 1943. The Japanese committed massacres in Borneo against the resistance.

While they were doing that, Sukarno and Indonesian nationalists in Java and other places outright collaborated with Japan.


Malaysia supported them because Philippines under Marcos was aggresively trying to take over Sabah, and they stopped support when Ramos promised to leave Sabah alone.