The Limited Military Utility of Pakistan’s "Battlefield Use" of Nuclear Weapons

[Mrc]

Only if some big boys can be educated enough to realise that having a fuctional multi stage solid fuel ballistic missile, range is probably the easiest thing to achieve .. as technology barier (stage separation)has been mastered around 20 years ago....

 

[kurup]

Only if some big boys can be educated enough to realise that having a fuctional multi stage solid fuel ballistic missile, range is probably the easiest thing to achieve .. as technology barier (stage separation)has been mastered around 20 years ago....

Can you educate us more on what is written in bold ??

 

[Mrc]

Stage separation is the limiting technology for range of solid fuel missiles...
Once stage separation is mastered range alone is not an issue ... u can just add 3rd stage to 2 stage missile to increase the range...

 

[acid rain]

The idea of the nukes is NOT battlefied utility. It is their utility as ambiguity agents when it comes to the nuclear threshold. Essentially playing upon India's own policy of massive retaliation if a single nuke hits. Hence, the idea that a single nuke will incur an all out strike by India which Pakistan is already ready and waiting for is the gambit to prevent a major attack by India in the first place.

Wouldn't signing up for nuclear cover with either the US or China be a far better solution if deterrence against India is the only goal?.

 

[SQ8]

Wouldn't signing up for nuclear cover with either the US or China be a far better solution if deterrence against India is the only goal?.

No, there is no guarantee from either under such an Umbrella. The ownership of the assets is the biggest deterrent in this case.

 

[acid rain]

No, there is no guarantee from either under such an Umbrella. The ownership of the assets is the biggest deterrent in this case.

It does prevent India from indulging in nuclear blackmail. The same terms would have applied, any protracted war will lead to serious conflagration, and a security pact will need the US or China to step in. Would have been a bigger deterrent for us and a compulsion on solving bilateral issues on an even keel...just a thought.

 

[SQ8]

It does prevent India from indulging in nuclear blackmail. The same terms would have applied, any protracted war will lead to serious conflagration, and a security pact will need the US or China to step in. Would have been a bigger deterrent for us and a compulsion on solving bilateral issues on an even keel...just a thought.

Not exactly, any "mercenary" weapons have zero reliability of usage and essentially would give India greater confidence.

 

[acid rain]

Not exactly, any "mercenary" weapons have zero reliability of usage and essentially would give India greater confidence.

Kind of a weird situation here. One is counting on the possible prevailing logic from the Indian side that will not induce a non logical move from the pakistani side.


Anyway, I don't buy into this battlefield nuke concept. Goes completely against the whole logic of having a nuclear arsenal as the major deterrent.

 

[HariPrasad]

Why only "No Nuke" slogan why not a "No War" slogan ..... ???

You are right Bro but your army would not agree to that.

No, there is no guarantee from either under such an Umbrella. The ownership of the assets is the biggest deterrent in this case.

Kargil took place after both the country went nuclear.

 

[Sam Manekshaw]

highly unlikely to happen
indian leadership will not compromise its cities and population but if they think like u do they probably would
if pakistan uses the tactical nukes most of the fall out will be contained with pakistan india wont be affected
but by your logic india will retaliate with a massive nuclear strike then so will pakistan
both will be toast

And you will be responsible for getting toast....Anyway i can see that PA is loosing faith in Conventional warfare capability against IA so they r using Nuclear one.
But what Pakistan failed to understand here is any level of nuclear warfare is nuclear warfare...u can't justify it and the one who use nuke will be responsible for the whole nuclear warfare shit.
Rest Good Luck with yr tactics coz we have our doctrine clear.

 

[acid rain]

Pakistan does not even have a theoretical ability to wipe out India's second strike capability, for the simple reason ..

1. India has a huge landmass, four times larger than Pakistan's, but equivalent number of nukes.

2. Even the longest range Pakistani missiles launched from the furthest point in Pakistani territory does not cover entire Indian territory..there are large parts of North Eastern Indian and Andaman Nicobar are still outside Pakistani missile ranges..Agni 5 or Agni 3 missile if placed in A&N islands or N.E..can still wipe out entire Pakistan.

3. India plans to deploy major portion of its nuclear arsenal at sea, 4 SSBNs each carrying 12 Nukes in near future(making them almost invulnerable to Pakistani first strike)..one is in sea trials to be inducted with in next few months, two hulls under construction.

On top of it some surface ships of Indian Navy have been modified to fire ballistic missiles mostly for testing purposes, but they can also fire nuclear missile if required.

However if the roles are reversed..were India to launch a pre-emptive strike on Pakistani nuclear launch sites, storage facilities and command and control..theoretically far more successful decapitating strike is possible.

Making it a far more 'humane' solution.

@ares
Do you buy the 80 to 100 number?

4*12 in arihant = 48
20 * A5
40 * A4, 40 * A3,
Around 80 to 100 A2 and A1.
At least 50 for the mirages and mki
A few for nirbhay class.
A few miniaturised ones for the srm's.

The total doesn't match up. Not with all the secret facilities for material comming up. 250 would be a logical number.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

And you will be responsible for getting toast....Anyway i can see that PA is loosing faith in Conventional warfare capability against IA so they r using Nuclear one.
But what Pakistan failed to understand here is any level of nuclear warfare is nuclear warfare...u can't justify it and the one who use nuke will be responsible for the whole nuclear warfare shit.
Rest Good Luck with yr tactics coz we have our doctrine clear.

too bad in a full blown nuclear conflict between pakistan and india who will care
who will judge us the rest of the world will not care

 

[ares]

@ares
Do you buy the 80 to 100 number?

4*12 in arihant = 48
20 * A5
40 * A4, 40 * A3,
Around 80 to 100 A2 and A1.
At least 50 for the mirages and mki
A few for nirbhay class.
A few miniaturised ones for the srm's.

The total doesn't match up. Not with all the secret facilities for material comming up. 250 would be a logical number.

Well I am not much for conspiracy theories..there is a strong case for India possessing more nukes than what is being reported..but then their is way to prove it, hence the argument is redundant.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

As I mentioned to all members across the border who harp on that tune: the probability of that happening is about the same as dolphins evolving wings and shooting laser beams from their heads. The paranoia that goes into the selection and mental screening/observation of personal in these organization is unmatched within the world.

IF that is so; then it is a good thing. But ground realities in the form of events; both in the recent past and not so recent past.........do not lead to the creation of such an "automatic confidence" that you like to maintain.

Its not just at the lowest levels but even at 2-star and 3-star levels (apart from leading scientists of PAEC) that unmistakeable radicalisation has been known to exist.

But you and I can keep hoping........

 

[SQ8]

IF that is so; then it is a good thing. But ground realities in the form of events; both in the recent past and not so recent past.........do not lead to the creation of such an "automatic confidence" that you like to maintain.

Its not just at the lowest levels but even at 2-star and 3-star levels (apart from leading scientists of PAEC) that unmistakeable radicalisation has been known to exist.

But you and I can keep hoping........

Not to the point where you think. There is a VERY paranoid check throughout the levels of these critical functions.