The J-10s are coming ...in months

[pakpower]

Hi
Look dude It's time to move on in the future it's not like that we have to sit on all the time from very begining on a old single Engine jets more & more countries are going for twin engines jets and they are not reckless in their decisions.

I think it's time for PAF to move on in the next big league of twin enginnes, stealth enginess and future products it's 21st Centuray and we have to look forward not behind.

 

[Super Falcon]

fully agree with you dude we need to go for kill

 

[PAFAce]

I think it's time for PAF to move on in the next big league of twin enginnes, stealth enginess and future products it's 21st Centuray and we have to look forward not behind.

Major revision by author.
Reason: Misunderstanding - I thought Pakpower meant Pakistan must "produce engines" rather than "buy jets with newer engines".

Whose going to pay for this? You?
This question is still valid.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Hi
Look dude It's time to move on in the future it's not like that we have to sit on all the time from very begining on a old single Engine jets more & more countries are going for twin engines jets and they are not reckless in their decisions.

I think it's time for PAF to move on in the next big league of twin enginnes, stealth enginess and future products it's 21st Centuray and we have to look forward not behind.

just to let you know, single engine will still numerically dominate USAF for another 20-30 years..

 

[qsaark]

Whose going to pay for this? You?

He came up with a suggestion, and a good and logical one. No need to be rude like this. Have we not been operating twin engine J-6s and Q-5s? Besides, new engines are more economical than the 20-30 year old ones.

 

[mean_bird]

Solution: Propose a joint venture for the next Chinese engine (4th of 5th gen). That way, our engineers can learn from the Chinese and we will be able to purchase currently under-development and future development Chinese the engines cheaply. This may take a few years, so I already know this plan will not be popular on this forum.

I agree with this idea.

However, to be able to manufacture engines (same goes with other complicated parts of a plane) we need a significant industrial base in addition to the technology we will learn.

For example, even if we learn the technology to make an engine...we need to make its blades out of a very strong material.... for that we need special material that wouldn't crack of fatigue and we do not have an industry for it. We may need composite materials, but there is no industry for it, we need high quality polymers but there is no industry for it, etc. Then comes quality checks for each of this. I am not stating exact facts that we don't have these industries but just giving examples.

But atleast if we start a joint venture with limited parts production initially, we can gradually built these industries so on day we could start making our own engines completely. Just like with JF-17, we will need some new machines we did not previously have. Also new facilities will be build at Kamra because of it that might be helpful for future projects. We will also have a new plant for electronics with the help of China.

So yes, I completely agree here. Slowly but surely we will build our industry. There have been some unofficial reports that Pakistan is working on an engine with collaborations so lets see how things shape up.

 

[saiko]

Not really! we are making the same mistake we made in the 50s when we joined the american club and every thing was american. Too much dependency is bad for health. We need to realize this reality before we become beggars again and this time in the eyes of China.

This is true, but at least China seems willing to do more than just sell you stuff. They are willing to perform technology transfers and help you get your own defence industry moving.

 

[saiko]

Hi
Look dude It's time to move on in the future it's not like that we have to sit on all the time from very begining on a old single Engine jets more & more countries are going for twin engines jets and they are not reckless in their decisions.

I think it's time for PAF to move on in the next big league of twin enginnes, stealth enginess and future products it's 21st Centuray and we have to look forward not behind.

One of the main reasons to move to a twin engined fighter are range and payload.

Does the Pakistan air force really need either in abundance? Realistically it's main national security concern for the forseeable future is India. Are there targets outside the range of single engined aircraft launched from Pakistan that the PAF needs to be able to strike or defend?

Generally I am in favour of twin engined, larger aircraft because it means you aren't as limited as avionics advances come down the pipe, but the PAF isn't swimming in money so it might make more sense to go with a single engined plane.

 

[PAFAce]

Originally posted by qsaark
He came up with a suggestion, and a good and logical one. No need to be rude like this. Have we not been operating twin engine J-6s and Q-5s? Besides, new engines are more economical than the 20-30 year old ones.

Major revision by author.

Thanks for teaching me manners. I really need a lesson in those for dealing with people like you. How do you think Pakistan will pay for the purchase and the even more expensive operation of the new twin engined jets? How will Pakistan pay for the proper training required to maintain and support these newer planes and their expensive engines? Should we cut down on our education spending or should we cutdown on research to buy the new toys? and finally, how on earth is buying newer jets with more sophisticated engines more "economical" for Pakistan in the present situation? please enlighten me.

You live in the US and so does pakpower, and I live in Canada. We have no right to suggest things that will take money away from the common man in Pakistan, who faces increasing hardship in every sense of the word. It is easy to say "buy more expensive jets" sitting on your couch in downtown Houston drinking fruit punch and watching "American Chopper", but it is much tougher living with the decision to spend another few millions on jets we don't even need. Many pretend to be patriots, but do they give a thought to the true citizens who still live and work there every single day? A nation is nothing without its citizens.

There are better courses Pakistan can take with its defence-budget. Furhter develop the aircraft design industry by focusing on indigenous avionics and electronic systems, airframes etc. Make the Pakistani airspace impenetrable by buying/making more potent air-defence systems. Get involved in more joint-ventures with allies like China and Turkey. Successfully induct and optimize the systems already purchased. These and a million other things should rank higher on Pakistan and PAFs list than buying newer jets that we can not afford or support.

There is no way I can change your mind, and I do not wish to either. You can keep on living in the fantasy world where money flows through the taps. I will be happy in knowing that if the PAF really needed these jets, they would have asked for them.