Surenas
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2012
- Messages
- 6,740
- Reaction score
- -6
According to Israeli newspaper Haaretz:
Some news websites can forgo the paywall - in Israel, too - Business Israel News | Haaretz
The Israeli-Sunni Coalition Against Iran
- Thread starter tyrant
- Start date
According to Israeli newspaper Haaretz:
Some news websites can forgo the paywall - in Israel, too - Business Israel News | Haaretz
SOHEIL
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2011
- Messages
- 15,796
- Reaction score
- -6
- Country
- Location
al-Hasani
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2013
- Messages
- 14,060
- Reaction score
- 43
- Country
- Location
Exactly. Not the difference between the ordinary Israeli/Jew and the state of Israel and the ideology it was founded upon (Zionism) and its policy.
Because 20-25% of all Israelis are Sunni Muslim Palestinian Arabs while half of all the Jewish Israelis are Mizrahi Jews (Jews from Arab lands) or Sephardic Jews.
Demographics of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Well, Iran does not really control anything in the region. Aside from HizbAlShaitan. The claim of Iraq being an Mullah proxy has been propagandized more than anything else. Sure some Iraqi politicians are pro-Iranian but other Iraqi politicians are pro-KSA. It's not about being pro or not. It's about Iraq being a fragile state right after the 2003 invasion where everyone and anyone could influence it. Those times have ended since Iraq is only going to grow in the right direction. Anything else would be impossible given where they come from and the oil/gas revenues they live on.
What is left then? Southern Lebanon? More precisely HizbAlShaitan who has distanced themselves from the Mullah's in Iran or at least try to appear as doing that. They are less popular than ever. Their existence as a pro-Iranian proxy is closely tied to the future of Iran. Once the Mullah's are gone they will be gone too as will all the pro Shia/Iran terrorist groups in Iraq too that are fragile already anyway. Moqtada al-Sadr (former leader of the Mahdi Army) is not even pro-Iranian. Iran is not popular among any Arabs regardless of ideology, religion etc. It's more the current Mullah''s and their stance towards Israel that gives them any form of popularity. Just look at their "popularity" or indifference when the Shah (officer son) ruled until 1979.
I don't see what is otherwise left in the Arab world?
Actually it is more a KSA/GCC-Iran thing. If it was purely Sunni vs Shia then we would not talk about a conflict because the Shias could potentially get annihilated in a few years in a all out conflict due to the vast numeric advantage of Sunnis. But we are not living in the stone age anymore so such discussions are not realistic even.
Yes, the outcome of Syria will determine a lot of things this is why it is so important for all parties.
Israel only cares about its security. Why should they otherwise care? It would be like if we Arabs or Muslims of the region cared about the moderate Jewish and ultra-orthodox conflict of interest inside Israel. Say what?
But once again bigger powers are also pulling the strings from behind. USA says hello. Russia is trying hard to be relevant again and now they think they can live off their little "success-story" in Syria after the deal with the Child-Murderer and him giving up his entire arsenal of chemical weapons.
China is doing the wise thing. Not taking any sides openly. Waiting for the outcome. Once the outcome is clear they will try to get their piece of the cake and establish bigger ties with the "winners of the conflict".
Israel is just looking at their border security and when it comes to the big issues they are just following suit after the US/NATO. What else can they do?
It seems there is a connection with Israel/Jews then.
Falcon29
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2013
- Messages
- 31,647
- Reaction score
- -10
- Country
- Location
Sisi? LOL!
You will see how anti Israel AQ is when they get the chance to show it. They also already have attacked Israel from the Sinai. They've killed more than 13 Israelis and fired dozens of rockets at Israel.
al-Hasani
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2013
- Messages
- 14,060
- Reaction score
- 43
- Country
- Location
Bro, I still don't know whether Al-Qaeda is a genuine organization or just a proxy used by USA/Israel when it pleases them. There is no doubt that the later splinter groups of Al-Qaeda and the groups that supposedly have pledged their allegiance to Al-Zawahiri are genuine and operate on their own.
I am talking about the Al-Qaeda of the early days. I once read that the ideology/structure of Al-Qaeda was founded at an American University. Idaho I think it was. We also know for a fact that the Americans founded the grassroots of the Al-Qaeda fundaments in Afghanistan during the 1980's to counter the Commies.
This might sound like some kind of absurd conspiracy but have you never wondered how come Al-Qaeda always causes invasions in Muslim lands and trouble/outside interference whenever they are?
Even the so-called Al-Qaeda member responsible for their English data/propaganda machine is an JEWISH Muslim convert. American moreover. Sounds suspicious if you ask me.
Adam Yahiye Gadahn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I have little doubt in fact I am nearly 100% sure that Al-Qaeda has been infiltrated by the West/Israel in some way or another.
Just look at in a neutral way. What better instrument to use to demonize Muslims worldwide, Islam and to use that as a pretext to invade and meddle EVERYWHERE in the Muslim world? How come is it that Al-Qaeda is barely 25 years old while Islam is nearly 1500 years old and nothing similar as Al-Qaeda ever appeared with a even slight connection to Islam?
No, I don't think that 9/11 was an inside job but apparently millions of people do and also certain experts, academics whom you just can't group wit the usual conspiracy lunatic/teenager that is bored.
What do you say?
Abu Zolfiqar
Rest in Peace
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2009
- Messages
- 22,555
- Reaction score
- 22
- Country
- Location
it's not Israeli - Sunni it's Israeli - Wahhabi
I highly doubt that until Palestine is acknowledged as a separate state there would be any Sunni coalition with Israel. All Muslim states are very hostile towards Israel I hardly think that would be the case though i believe Iran does not have any apparent threat from Israel its all bark and no bite.
Azizam
BANNED
- Joined
- May 26, 2013
- Messages
- 3,512
- Reaction score
- -8
- Country
- Location
I don't agree. Ethnicity, religion, nation or anything non profitable doesn't matter in politics.
Oh it does. Religion is power and its always used in one way or the other for point scoring, rallying people and using them for the desired results.
Azizam
BANNED
- Joined
- May 26, 2013
- Messages
- 3,512
- Reaction score
- -8
- Country
- Location
Well, that was my point. Religion is a tool not a cause. Politics will not be used according to religious needs but religion will be used according political needs.
kalu_miah
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2009
- Messages
- 6,475
- Reaction score
- 17
- Country
- Location
Thanks for the mention bro. USA/CIA definitely was a co-creator of the Mujahideen resistance in Afghanistan, along with a few other govts. and their intelligence agency's.
Al Qaeda was apparently formed from the foreign volunteer fighters in the Afghan war:
Al-Qaeda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I think the above is fairly accurate and in my opinion it is a conspiracy theory to believe that AQ is a tool created and managed by the US/Israel. Rather it was created as an unintended by product of US foreign policy in Afghan theater during cold war. So my favorite saying is that when one plays with fire (using religious extremism as geopolitical tool), one should be prepared to get burnt. It was a classic case of blow back for the US.
What AQ type people do not consider is that the success in Afghan theater was due to several factors:
- USA, Pakistan and Saudi/GCC govt. were supporting Mujahideen resistance
- Logistics and sanctuary was being provided by Pakistan
- Afghans themselves were a big factor, they were the main body of fighters and are a population with history of small arms use by tradition and they were fighting an invading God-less army, essentially it was national resistance, just like India and Russia helped the national resistance of Bangladesh against the illegal occupation of Pakistan Army. For both Pakistan and USA it was also sweet payback to Russia, for the help they provided Bangladesh in 1971.
Unfortunately when the Soviet's decided to pull out and thus the war was won by the Mujahideen, this created a false sense of confidence among the foreign group of fighters who came to help Afghans. This idiotic group has then embarked on a grand war against US/NATO and Russia, based on their false sense of confidence.
The most troublesome aspect of this phenomenon is the funding of this effort, even in case of this ongoing Syrian war. It seems that a large part of the funding of the Al Qaeda affiliated and other extremists come from private sources and citizens in GCC states. What this means is that some wealthy GCC citizens feel that their govts. are not fulfilling their wishes and desires in regional ongoing conflicts, and since they have the money, they are taking the liberty to take matters in their own hands:
Private donations give edge to Islamists in Syria, officials say - Washington Post
Private Donations Give Edge to Islamists in Syria, Officials Say
Posted GMT 9-22-2013
GAZIANTEP, Turkey -- The stream of U.S. weapons heading to moderate rebel groups in Syria is being offset by a fresh torrent of cash for Islamist extremists, much of it from small networks of Arab donors who see the Syrian conflict as a step toward a broader Islamist uprising across the region, U.S. and Middle Eastern officials say.
The private donors, who use Twitter and other social media to collect millions of dollars from sympathetic Muslims, are providing crucial backing for Islamist militias that appear to be gaining ground in northern and eastern Syria, even as fighting stalls elsewhere, the officials said.
Dollars raised over the Internet are wired between private banking accounts and hand-delivered by courier, often in border towns like this city of 1.4 million, about 20 miles from the Syrian frontier, according to Middle Eastern intelligence officials who monitor the activity. Some fundraising pitches ask for specific pledges to cover the cost of a weapon, for example, or to finance an operation. For $2,400, a donor can pay for the travel, training and arming of a single non-Syrian fighter.
"You can even get a video afterward showing what it was you paid for," said one senior intelligence official based in the region. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss his country's intelligence collection.
While radical groups such as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, Jabhat al-Nusra and Ahrar al-Sham have long relied on charitable giving from Persian Gulf states, the flow of private cash has enabled the extremists to retain their battlefield edge despite the loss of support from key Arab backers such as Qatar, which cut off aid to the most radical groups under pressure from the United States and Saudi Arabia, U.S. and Middle Eastern officials said.
The donations also have undermined Western efforts to *strengthen the relative position of moderate and secularist rebel factions that are the intended recipients of U.S. weapons that began flowing into Syria last month, the officials said.
Obama administration officials say that they were working with gulf allies to shut off private cash flows but that the efforts have been complicated by the fundraisers' under-the-radar tactics. The organizers also take advantage of lax regulations in some gulf states that allow fundraisers to set up small religious charities and canvass in mosques and other public venues, U.S. officials say.
"Much of this funding comes from private citizens in the gulf, particularly in Kuwait," said David S. Cohen, the Treasury Department's undersecretary for terrorism and financial intelligence. The country, a source of financial aid for extremist groups during the Afghan and Iraq wars, "unfortunately continues to be a permissive environment for terrorist fundraising," he said.
What is more worrisome, officials say, is a new tendency among fundraisers to seek influence over the Syrian paramilitary groups they support. Some have adopted their own rebel militias and sought to dictate everything from ideology to tactics. Officials at one gulf-based organization, which calls itself the Ummah Conference, have helped promote a campaign to recruit thousands of Muslim volunteers for Syria while openly calling for a broader struggle against secular Arab governments and what one of its leaders terms "American terrorism."
"These are people who believe in the ideology and have more than enough money to help the groups in Syria that share their views," said a senior Middle Eastern intelligence official whose government closely monitors Syrian rebel factions and their foreign supporters. He spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to grant interviews on the matter.
"Such groups think it is more halal -- permissible -- to support the jihadists than to give tax dollars to their own governments," he said. "Unfortunately, it is a problem that you can never control. At least, not completely."
'Bags of money'
In the border city of Gaziantep, where modern apartment blocks tower over the ruins of 6,000-year-old Hittite settlements, the waves of refugees who began arriving two years ago have given parts of the city a distinctive Syrian feel. Arab speakers now outnumber native Turks in many of the street cafes where men gather in the evenings to discuss the war over coffee and endless rounds of a tile game called Okey.
But in recent months, there has been a separate stream of foreigners headed toward the fight. Ahmad, a Syrian exile and interpreter who works in the nearby Kilis refugee camp, said he regularly sees Arab businessmen, distinctive in their white dishdashas, speeding toward the border in rented luxury cars with hired drivers.
"Some come in with bags of money, just looking to give it away," said Ahmad, who requested that his last name be withheld because he feared he could be targeted for speaking publicly. "They bring money because it's the thing that is most useful. Finding weapons if you have money is not a problem."
Aid workers also have noticed new arrivals in towns and villages along Syria's borders with Turkey and Jordan. Alaa Hadid, who manages aid workers in northern Jordan, said dozens of small charities with Arab backers have set up shop in cities such as Mafraq and Ramtha near the Syrian frontier. Some use cash to recruit young refugees as fighters, he said.
"Some of the charities seem okay, but others are run by scam artists," he said. "They all make money by soliciting from the wealthy in the gulf."
Exactly how much is raised is impossible to say. A senior U.S. official with access to classified intelligence on rebel financing said gulf-based networks have collected "hundreds of millions" of dollars, a sum that includes money donated to legitimate charities that help feed and clothe an estimated 2.1 million refugees. The proportion that goes to support radical Islamist groups is deliberately obscured by organizers who are adept at using social media such as Twitter and Facebook to communicate with potential donors and the rebel groups they support, the official said.
"Social media enables fundraisers to solicit donations from supporters in countries -- notably Saudi Arabia -- which have otherwise banned unauthorized fundraising campaigns for Syria," said the senior U.S. official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence assessments. He said some groups hold regular cash-collecting events at private homes and mosques, while others specialize in wire transfers that use informal Arab banking houses known as hawala.
Western officials closely followed the skyrocketing prominence of formerly unknown Kuwaiti clerics such as Sheik Hajjaj al-Ajmi, whose Twitter appeals for money for the rebels this year became so effective that a Syrian brigade adopted Ajmi's name.
But more recently, some of the fundraising networks have sought to reshape the conflict in deeper ways, creating their own militia movements while spreading money broadly to expand their influence among dozens of Islamist rebel groups, said William McCants, a former State Department adviser .
"They are like militia-group venture capitalists," said McCants, director of the Brookings Institution's Project on U.S. Relations with the Islamic World. "They are trying to pick winners, seeing which groups are growing and performing well. And they have a lot of money and no real restrictions."
One group's deepening ties
The Ummah Conference's headlong dive into the Syrian conflict started with fundraising but quickly extended to the battlefield.
For this 12-year-old Islamist organization, which was founded in Kuwait and boasts chapters in a dozen countries, the Syrian conflict has served as a recruiting tool, idea laboratory and training academy, say U.S. and Middle Eastern analysts who have studied it. The group's leaders have formed ties with a Syrian group of the same name -- the Liwaa al-Ummah, or Ummah Brigade -- while showering money on Islamist groups such as Ahrar al-Sham. Ummah Brigade fighters coordinate tactics with more radical groups such as the al-Qaeda-linked Jabhat al-Nusra and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.
The group's ties to the conflict deepened in March when one of its leaders -- Mohammad al-Abduli, a former United Arab Emirates army colonel and president of the conference's UAE branch -- was killed by a sniper while fighting in Syria. The organization has since established a military training camp in Syria named in his honor.
A video posted in May depicted two of the Ummah Conference's regional officials -- Saudi branch leader Mohammad Saad *al-Mufrih and the new UAE leader, Hassan al-Diqqi -- surrounding by gun-toting graduates of the newly opened Abduli Training Camp. Mufrih, the Saudi, appealed in the video for Muslims to aid the Syrian rebels "by any possible instrument, with money and with men."
"There is no excuse for anyone," he said.
Such rhetoric is not uncommon, but the group's increasing involvement in the conflict has become a source of worry for Middle Eastern governments and Western officials. Some see the Ummah Conference transforming itself into a version of the Muslim Brotherhood, which has been tarnished by defeats in Egypt and perceived irrelevance in Syria.
Unlike the Brotherhood, the Ummah Conference's leaders have shown little inclination to achieve their goals through long political struggles for domestic office, analysts say. While avowedly opposed to terrorism, the group in its charter denies the legitimacy of secular governments in Muslim countries and calls for the "Islamatization of all laws and legislation." The movement's Kuwaiti founder, Hakim al-Mutairi, recently praised former al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden as "the lion of Islam" and "an international Muslim leader" whose heroism will be properly celebrated once all Muslims are freed from secular rule.
Moreover, Diqqi, leader of the UAE chapter and a veteran of the Syrian conflict, has suggested that Islam's true enemies lie outside the Middle East. He denounced the United States in a 2002 book as one of the two "most dangerous countries" in the world, the other being Russia. In a Twitter post in June, he described the Syrian conflict as an important step toward empowering Muslims to challenge U.S. influence in the region.
"The Muslim people will not be able to confront American terrorism without adopting a comprehensive strategy where politics and jihad intersect," he wrote.
To current and former U.S. counterterrorism officials, such pronouncements have a distressingly familiar ring, inviting comparisons to the 1970s and 1980s, when radical Islamists throughout the Middle East rallied to the cause of Afghan Muslims waging jihad against the Soviet Union.
"Some of these groups have always held radical views, but before the Arab Spring, they had no active jihad, but only aspirations," said one former U.S. intelligence analyst who worked extensively in the region. "Now they have a jihad. Now they are veterans."
By Joby Warrick
Last edited by a moderator:
Falcon29
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2013
- Messages
- 31,647
- Reaction score
- -10
- Country
- Location
I know, it's very shadowy. And I really wonder about the Zawahri guy, I know their ranks are fishy and some of their older groups. But, some new groups today are different. They aren't even AQ, but, people label them that because some intelligence agencies believe they are similar in their ideologies.
I also don't believe they were capable of some attacks they were accused of. When in reality they are not so sophisticated.
As for Zawahri, I find it really funny he makes videos every hear and there and nobody knows his location. I call bullshit, I believe they know were he is located but they want him to stay and need him to make propaganda videos in which anything he says no matter what he says is published on western media as headline news.
They exploit it and make it seem much more than it really is. Most groups aren't the real AQ, those splinter cells are in it for something else and I am very fishy about them.
So it's a really confusing thing, and that's how they want it to be.
The groups that are real and are born from conflict not ideology are those like Hezbollah, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
I know extremists do exist, but, some are fishy and I don't believe they would bomb thousands of their own civilians. Something is wrong with them.
I have seen some in Gaza, they are very few and some call anyone a kafir for no reason at all. They call hamas members kafirs even though they are very religious and in the best way possible.
Hamas has got in a gunfight with them and killed like 18 of them and arrested over three hundred people in one night. Here it is:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/world/middleeast/16gaza.html?_r=0
I was close to this area when it happened.
But, yeah...you tell me. This thing needs to be studied thoroughly.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
Imran Khan vs Pakistan: Protest of Treachery - Casualty Report
- Latest: Novus ordu seclorum
-
No Strings Attached: Discover Local Ladies in Your Town- Latest: rana.aamir2990
-
-
Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts
-
Imran Khan vs Pakistan: Protest of Treachery - Casualty Report
- Latest: Novus ordu seclorum
-
-
-
-
Bajwa calls Bushra's allegations against Saudi Arabia 'baseless'
- Latest: Novus ordu seclorum
