The Indian variant of secularism opens the door to majority communalism

[P.K.]

No.. I am no Congress supporter but I respect Nehru.

Could you enlighten me, what Nehru has exactly done to command respect. In fact I believe that India would have been a highly developed nation by now, but for this nehru/gandhi dynasty

 

[Ragnar]

Could you enlighten me, what Nehru has exactly done to command respect. In fact I believe that India would have been a highly developed nation by now, but for this nehru/gandhi dynasty

His finest achievement was the introducing reform in and codifying Hindu family law which was very fragmented and unfair especially for women. Secondly, India despite being one of the poorest countries had a strong international image. Thirdly, India had achieved political stability under Nehru- which is no small thing. There were no strings of coups and revolutions. Even Bangladesh- a very similar society to India had its fair share of army coups. At least we had a working government and regular elections. His failures were on the economic front- but that was the world at that time and many countries were experimenting with socialism.

 

[P.K.]

His finest achievement was the introducing reform in and codifying Hindu family law which was very fragmented and unfair especially for women. Secondly, India despite being one of the poorest countries had a strong international image. Thirdly, India had achieved political stability under Nehru- which is no small thing. There were no strings of coups and revolutions. Even Bangladesh- a very similar society to India had its fair share of army coups. At least we had a working government and regular elections. His failures were on the economic front- but that was the world at that time and many countries were experimenting with socialism.

You forgot to mention his greatest achievement that is, letting the country partitioned just to be the PM. His other achievements are also a matter of debate.

a. Codifying Hindu Family law instead of Common Civil code

b. Starting Non Aligned movement just to be a maverick and a self acclaimed Statesman. (refusing UNSC permanent seat Taking Kashmir issue to UN, ),

c. Don't you think Subash Chander Bose ( if not eliminated by these powers) or any Patriotic Congress Man could have held the country together.

d. as for choosing Socialism instead of Capitalism, is self-evident of the greatness of Mr. Nehru.

 

[jamahir]

Nehru was a great man and his leadership was the key to the stability that India achieved. The republic could have very easily fragmented in those early years. India's minorities, if you can call 200 freaking million people as minorities, protect us against the worst excesses of majoritarianism. India would probably become some theocracy without them.

i agree with the highlighted part, nehru was the stabilizing factor in his own way and he was among the few real internationalists in the congress and should not be forgotten for co-founding the "non-aligned movement".

for the rest of your post and for the economic/social problems india today faces now, my previous post describes the complications there-in and the op describes it even better.

i also agree with you in the fact that it has been a singular failure among the non-socialist ordinary muslim masses that they did not reject the confining official tag of "minority" and i will extend this to the other minorities too.

while nehru is respectable to a big extent, he failed his own desire to make the average indian a person of scientific temper and that is purely because he failed to evolve a progressive political system that while internationalist in nature would also look at the indian social situation in 1947 and arrange a way to make them progressive humans rather than indians confined to a particular community and reluctantly engaging with other self-absorbed communities.

d. as for choosing Socialism instead of Capitalism, is self-evident of the greatness of Mr. Nehru.

there is no alternative to socialism.

how can any sane person reject a idea that all humans are equal and each has a right to justice and a good life??

one instance, if socialists in india had not existed, there would not have been employee unions... the indian software/services industry is a highly capitalist coolie system that is largely bereft of humane ideas and does not have a employee union... do you know what happened to workers of ibm-india and tcs last year??

extend this to other social/economic problems that india has had for a long long time.. it is socialist/progressive that brings such problems to light and agitates to remove them.

you must be of younger age... you should ask a former maoist why college students from andhra were joining naxalism in the early 90's.

but speaking of nehru, he was not socialist enough... i say this as a socialist myself.

You forgot to mention his greatest achievement that is, letting the country partitioned just to be the PM.

i agree with you in this.

 

[Ragnar]

You forgot to mention his greatest achievement that is, letting the country partitioned just to be the PM. His other achievements are also a matter of debate.

a. Codifying Hindu Family law instead of Common Civil code

b. Starting Non Aligned movement just to be a maverick and a self acclaimed Statesman. (refusing UNSC permanent seat Taking Kashmir issue to UN, ),

c. Don't you think Subash Chander Bose ( if not eliminated by these powers) or any Patriotic Congress Man could have held the country together.

d. as for choosing Socialism instead of Capitalism, is self-evident of the greatness of Mr. Nehru.

Partition was a very good thing for India, and I think there is an alternate thread discussing just that. I think there were a lot of forces working for partition at that time and the amount of hatred and violence which came out showed that there were definitely issues between Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims. I don't think Hindu code was unnecessary. Hindu women are much more protected now. There is no consensus even now 68 years later on UCC so why blame Nehru? I cannot comment on what Bose might or might not have done. Rajaji or Patel would have been excellent choices as well. I suspect that there was suspicion in many Congress leaders/freedom fighters about private enterprise except Rajaji. After all East India company entered India as a trading company.

 

[P.K.]

there is no alternative to socialism

You must have read this story before;

An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had never failed a single student before but had, once, failed an entire class. The class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said ok, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism. All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A.

After the first test the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. But, as the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too; so they studied little ...

The second Test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around the average was an F. The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for anyone else. All failed to their great surprise and the professor told them that socialism would ultimately fail because the harder to succeed the greater the reward but when a government takes all the reward away; no one will try or succeed.

one instance, if socialists in india had not existed, there would not have been employee unions... the indian software/services industry is a highly capitalist coolie system that is largely bereft of humane ideas and does not have a employee union... do you know what happened to workers of ibm-india and tcs last year??

Coolie system based IBM and TCS are still creating Jobs worldwide.
But can you say the same about India's socialist state of west Bengal

how can any sane person reject a idea that all humans are equal and each has a right to justice and a good life??

Well, since every human is equal then we must have all of them leading the nation collectively. similarly either every soldier be made Army Chief or all officers be demoted to Jawan level. Interesting preposition !!!

 

[JanjaWeed]

There is nothing called secularism in India.. What we have is communalism & reverse communalism (which is misunderstood as secularism). Basically India is a communal country whichever way you look at it.

 

[jamahir]

An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had never failed a single student before but had, once, failed an entire class. The class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said ok, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism. All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A.

After the first test the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. But, as the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too; so they studied little ...

The second Test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around the average was an F. The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for anyone else. All failed to their great surprise and the professor told them that socialism would ultimately fail because the harder to succeed the greater the reward but when a government takes all the reward away; no one will try or succeed.

some sanghi member has posted that before as a story from india.

Coolie system based IBM and TCS are still creating Jobs worldwide.
But can you say the same about India's socialist state of west Bengal

ibm-usa is still a designer of processors and operating systems and file systems etc... ibm-india on the other hand was a unnecessary division which ibm-usa drastically cut by the tens of thousands.

by the way, ibm-usa has a employee union system but ibm-india does not... why??

as for tcs, what has it ever designed??

But can you say the same about India's socialist state of west Bengal

you should ask rakesh sharma why he ever flew in the commie soyuz rocket to be in the commie space station, salyut, for 10 days... why was he breathing commie air for that long...

Well, since every human is equal then we must have all of them leading the nation collectively.

certainly... that is possible through direct-democracy socialism which existed in the libyan jamahiriya.

 

[P.K.]

some sanghi member has posted that before as a story from india.



ibm-usa is still a designer of processors and operating systems and file systems etc... ibm-india on the other hand was a unnecessary division which ibm-usa drastically cut by the tens of thousands.

by the way, ibm-usa has a employee union system but ibm-india does not... why??

as for tcs, what has it ever designed??



you should ask rakesh sharma why he ever flew in the commie soyuz rocket to be in the commie space station, salyut, for 10 days... why was he breathing commie air for that long...



certainly... that is possible through direct-democracy socialism which existed in the libyan jamahiriya.

The way you have avoided a logical discussion, reinforces my belief that further arguments will be a futile effort.

 

[jamahir]

The way you have avoided a logical discussion, reinforces my belief that further arguments will be a futile effort.

so you picked up all the india-related things from my post and converted that into a final analysis of me??

 

[P.K.]

so you picked up all the india-related things from my post and converted that into a final analysis of me??

There is an old saying that 'you need not to taste the whole to affirm whether the rice have been cooked only few grains are sufficient '

 

[SwAggeR]

There is nothing called secularism in India.. What we have is communalism & reverse communalism (which is misunderstood as secularism). Basically India is a communal country whichever way you look at it.

Referendum on India's secularism would be interesting. But still don't you think BJP+ had only 39% vote share in LS election. What about those 61-15=46% ??

There is an old saying that 'you need not to taste the whole to affirm whether the rice have been cooked only few grains are sufficient '

He is just closet Islamist in garb of sickularism and socialism and his all bla bla bla bs . His hate and distaste for Hindus had been highlighted several occasions.

 

[JanjaWeed]

Referendum on India's secularism would be interesting. But still don't you think BJP+ had only 39% vote share in LS election. What about those 61-15=46% ??

Those 46% are victims of the proponents of this 'reverse communalism' or Indian 'secularism' in other word. These so called secular parties practice this brand of 'reverse communalism' that has historically done innumerable harm to the nation & continues to undermine India's progress, security & stability.
When a 'secular' party starts communal mass mobilisation on emotional religious issues, they participate in a dangerous trend, contributing directly to the greater radicalisation of minority community. now.. this trend of 'reverse communalism' is more dangerous than the actual one, which people normally talk about!

 

[SwAggeR]

Those 46% are victims of the proponents of this 'reverse communalism' or Indian 'secularism' in other word. These so called secular parties practice this brand of 'reverse communalism' that has historically done innumerable harm to the nation & continues to undermine India's progress, security & stability.
When a 'secular' party starts communal mass mobilisation on emotional religious issues, they participate in a dangerous trend, contributing directly to the greater radicalisation of minority community. now.. this trend of 'reverse communalism' is more dangerous than the actual one, which people normally talk about!

I can't forget those UPA days when we narrowly missed highly skewed anti-riot law.UPA just overdid it. Thank god now we have some sane and strong political parties around us unlike 1947 when Mahashabha didn't had support.

@JanjaWeed did you noticed , for that hag Modi comming to power was second worst thing to happen in India after Partition. They expect us to remain secular.

 

[JanjaWeed]

I can't forget those UPA days when we narrowly missed highly skewed anti-riot law.UPA just overdid it. Thank god now we have some sane and strong political parties around us unlike 1947 when Mahashabha didn't had support.

It is that same old tried & tested formula of keeping Indians divided on the basis of religion, caste & class that paid dividend to Congress each time they went to poll. But the sheen is running out now. People are getting more educated & getting exposed to the real world, thanks to both paid & unpaid media including social ones! Things have changed.. Congress can't rely on their same old slogan.. Got to find something new, which has to be real.

@JanjaWeed did you noticed , for that hag Modi comming to power was second worst thing to happen in India after Partition. They expect us to remain secular.

Oh well..they are still not able to come to terms with the fact that they are not in power. Eventhough it wasn't for the first time, it is different this time around. In the past whenever there was a non-congress govt, it was only a fragile one with loads of co-alition partners.. & congress always knew they can bounce back by playing their usual dirty politics & grab power once again. But this time it was different & a massive blow... Congress is struggling to recover from it. & that's why they are acting all crazy.